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QUOTE (Chisoxfn @ Jun 29, 2017 -> 11:40 AM) They aren't much different then the Bulls. Look...we can say Gar and Paxson aren't very good anymore, but there is no arguing that over the past 10-15 years, the Bulls have been at the very least a top 10 NBA team and a consistent playoff team (Rockets are in a similar boat). I laugh at everyone who says the Bulls have the worst front office in the league. QUOTE (Chisoxfn @ Jun 29, 2017 -> 12:25 PM) Doc Rivers is the worst GM in the league, so you are missing the Clippers. And I disagree with you completely...most GM's in this league wish they could have the track record that John Paxson has had over his career. When his time comes (and I am perfectly fine moving him), people will look back long-term at John Paxson as being a good GM. Even Gar...as much as I don't like the run-ins with the front office and the fact that he is slimy...our historical drafting has been pretty good. 2016's draft got us two potential role players. Valentine & Zipser. Not saying either are great players or even starters in this league...but given where we picked, as of today, that is solid value. Additionally, 2015's 1st round pick (Bobby Portis) while inconsistent looks like a guy who can play in the NBA. Again, not a starter, but a solid role player. The Bulls heavily relied on young players (more so then all but a couple teams in the league) and they were the only team who actually won games. When people say they don't trust this front office or a rebuild...I would say I don't trust this front office (cause Gar is just a slimy dude) but their history of drafting has been very good (and that is over a long-term period). Yes, we had some years with misses, but from a relative value perspective, the last two years provided us with three guys, who at this point, appear poised to be role players (and given where we were picking...that is solid relative value). Who knows what can happen, but lets not act like we've been some horrible drafting team...the Bulls haven't. Anyone who says they have are delusional and has no perspective on how likely draft picks are to flop, etc. I hate defending this front office, but some of these statements are just so ridiculous and ignorant of a long-term track record that was pretty good. Everyone thinks its easy to win championships but it isn't, especially in the NBA, and the best front office people may not ever win one because somewhere in the equation...luck can be involved. QUOTE (bmags @ Jun 29, 2017 -> 01:01 PM) Joe Dumars put together an improbably dominant team in Detroit before completely hamstringing it with terrible trades and signings. He was a fantastic and truly terrible GM in one tenure. Paxson was a good and then terrible executive in his tenure, and a fine record 5 years ago isn't enough to keep your job after the horrendous execution following 2011. The bulls front office has: - punched out a coach - Fired a coach for criticizing behind closed doors - Undermined a coach publicly for a year before firing him and encouraging players to trash him to the media - Hired an inexperienced coach from college - Publicly undermined that coach - Overseen a medical staff that has very nearly killed a player, cleared one to play with a broken leg, and oversaw a chronically injured team. Was never fired, eventually left on their own. Fired Jen Swanson after a year though, guess she didn't get on the loyalty train. - Traded 2 first round picks to move into the 11th spot to draft a one dimensional college 3 point shooter who couldn't rebound or steal in college. He was terrible. The two picks were much better. - Drafted Marquis Teague - Drafted Tony Snell - Drafted Denzel Valentine - Overvalued Niko Mirotic, he'll leave for nothing - Signed Rajon Rondo. He was exactly what you thought Rondo would be, except he also turned out to be improbably the most decent human being in the org. So I'm not going to talk too much crap on him. - Signed Dwyane Wade - Thought a team of Butler Wade and Rondo was really good (they were bad) - Refused to go over luxury tax after 2011 losing Korver and Asik for nothing. It all ended up okay though because they signed rip hamilton. - Continue to pay rip hamilton for the rest of time - Let DJ Augustin and Nate Robinson go but made sure that Kirk Hinrich would live forever - Refused to include Taj Gibson for anything, waited until he was least valuable, then traded him and Doug McDermott for 3 players with negative PER - Demanded coach play them - They were terrible - Coach got team to playoffs by benching them They have been terrible managing the team they put together for 5 years, culminating in trading their best asset for a rebuild and not acquiring future assets. It's cool he used the assets he inherited from Krause to get draft picks that created the 2011 team. But he's been terrible since, he's run a drama-filled embarrassment of an org culture. I agree with Bmags here, there are a lot more failures Pax and Gar should be remembered for than the few draft hits and the lucky ping pong bounce. I will get to that later. I think the best moves GarPax has made are drafting Noah, Rose (no brainer), Taj, Butler, and signing Thibs. This is essentially what lead them to being anywhere from a first round playoff team to a conference finalist the past 8-9 years. But more than the moves they made that failed, the FO also failed big time on the moves they didn't make. They have lucked into getting the first overall pick and turned it into a superstar, but have consistently failed to make the big move to turn the team into a real contender. The biggest acquisitions during the Pax and later Gar era are Ben Wallace, Boozer, Paul Gasol, and Wade. while missing out on the likes of Lebron, Melo, KD, Harden, Paul, Iverson, KG, Bosh, Howard, Kobe, TMac, VC, the list goes on. Being one of the marquee franchises in NBA, and with so many players having roots in Chicago, having only those 4 big name acquisitions to show for in the last 15 years is downright unacceptable. Specifically on trades, over the past 6-7 years the Bulls were a playoff team or even a playoff contender. But they always needed another scorer or a shooter to put them over. But year in and year out, this FO sit idly as the trade deadline goes by. Their lack of creativity to pull off any significant trade is well-documented. I'm not evening going to bring up trading Aldridge for Ty Thomas or signing of VDN as a head coach during the Pax era.

Talk about a dramatic improvement. 2016 Guerrero in AA, 73/108 BB/K ratio. 2017 Guerrero repeating AA, 19/100 BB/K ratio. If we can even just get Kopech, Hanson, Dunning and Guerrero to pan out as starters, whatever Giolito, Lopez, Fulmer, Stephens and Burdi becomes is just the cherry on top of the cake.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Jun 28, 2017 -> 01:16 PM) For those with the ability to see into the future with such clarity, can I get the winning powerball numbers for the next drawing? MLB prospects are total crapshoot to begin with. But starting your career off as a low .200 hitter just puts greater odds against the prospect to succeed. Sure he might turn it around like Carlton Fisk, but 99.9% of the time he does not.

QUOTE (bmags @ Jun 28, 2017 -> 09:06 AM) Flowers to me was the epitome of the flawed execution by Hahn with the last group, where he took a club weakness and replaced it with essentially probable veteran marginal upgrades. In the future, if we are going to get rid of someone providing average production to the club, we better do it with a big jump in talent. Our journey to upgrade ended up shuffling out players we'd have been better off keeping for players we hoped would replicate career years that never came. Come on dude, not even sure if it's sarcasm. I don't know what Hanh has to do with this because ironically, the Braves did exactly what Hanh was doing, took a weakness and made marginal upgrades, and Tyler Flower turns out to be one of the best catchers in the league the last 2 years. Even more ironically, one of the "marginal upgrades" we brought in to replace Flowers was injured and didn't perform last year. But now that he's healthy, he's also one of the best catchers in the league this season. If the bolded part was easy, every team would be doing it right? And we're talking about catcher, of all positions. It's one of the hardest positions to replace with "big jump in talent". All in all, we had talents and potential at the position the past few years, we just did not have the right coaching staff to unlock them. But truthfully it fits in with the trend the past decade for the Sox, every position player we brought in end up having their worst season as a hitter. I'm glad we sort of reverse that trend this year with several young guys having breakout years.

Let's look at the facts here. Collins was "only" a .300 hitter for his first two years in Miami. That bumped to .360 during his draft year. However he's slumping at .222 in pro ball in almost one full season of at bats. His strikeout rate in college was also relatively high at almost 20%. He has a hitch in his swing. So aside from the good year he had as a junior, he has been a below average to poor contact hitter. It's becoming apparent that the hit tool is overhyped. He's still has plus plate discipline and can draw a ton of walks (I wish prospect evaluators would decouple plate discipline from hit tools when evaluating prospects). He'd most likely have to fix his swing to have success in upper minors and big leagues. Even if he reaches the majors, he's likely no more than a .230 hitter, but with an OBP of .300 or better and a .400 SLG.

It's going to make their league best offense even better, but they still cannot defend.

QUOTE (Dam8610 @ Jun 27, 2017 -> 11:41 AM) This is all great, and I don't mean to take anything away from what he's doing, but haven't we seen this before? He pitches otherworldly for the first 5 months, then falls apart in September. That's going to be the real test for him, especially since he'll probably be pitching in October for the first time in his career. I'm sure someone can spend time and do a more detailed year to date analysis, but on the surface it looks like his velocity, slider % and swinging strike % all seen dramatic increases. Even if he regresses in the second half, those number would still be better than in years past by year end.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Jun 27, 2017 -> 10:47 AM) Someone voted Gar Foreman for Exec of the Year. Bulls Talk‏Verified account @CSNBulls 2h2 hours ago Who voted for Gar Forman for Executive of the Year? Conspiracy theories: http://bit.ly/2tQ836N It could be Presti, Thibs, or the Denver GM. Nurkic and Garry Harris both had breakout years.

This 2017 version of Chris Sale is for real. Looking at fangraphs: - Manged increased his swinging strike% by an incredible 5% this year, his 16.2% swstr now leads MLB, and is by far his career best. - FB velo increased by 1.5 MPH, 2nd high FB velo since becoming a starter - Mixing up his pitches, throwing 29.2% slider, by far the highest since 2013. - BABIP is consistent with his career norm - Benefited from move away from the cell. HR/9 is lowest since 2014, when he posted a 2.17 ERA All in all, it seems like Sale is going all out and maximizing his talent, the only concern is if his skinny frame will hold up till playoff time.

Is Robert going to play in the States this year, or will he be stashed in DSL all year for tax purposes?

QUOTE (steveno89 @ Jun 26, 2017 -> 12:11 PM) Eaton is a very good player on a long term contract. That was not going to come cheaply, not matter what. Giolito/Lopez stock would likely be down, but Dunning's stock should be up. I still feel like it could end up being a fair deal for both teams. Had not been Eaton's injury, I doubt that's the case for the Sox. In order for them to get fair value back, one of the three pitchers would have to generate the same value (WAR) for the Sox as Eaton would have over the course of his contract. The probability of that happening is not likely. The whole Sox fleeced Nats narrative was an overblown.

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Jun 23, 2017 -> 08:02 PM) Niko will be back. I don't mind seeing it as long as it's just a QO, not a new contract. With him and Markkanen on the court at the same time, it should give Lavine and Wade plenty of spacing to work with.

QUOTE (scs787 @ Jun 23, 2017 -> 05:34 PM) I'm sure its been brought so I apologize, but what is the Bulls cap situation the next few years? They can't free up max money for a Hayward or Gallinari right? Just for pure entertainment reasons, do the Bulls have cap for Gallinari or Gordon. Gallinari in particular would make this a pretty exciting team. Rondo and Canaan will almost certainly be waived by 6/30, They will likely renounce rights to Niko and MCW as well, which would bring them to around $38M under cap once Markkanen signs.

QUOTE (JenksIsMyHero @ Jun 23, 2017 -> 11:38 AM) Wade? There weren't much of a market for Wade. Wade picked us primarily for the $$, but he was by no means a top tier FA anymore, which we need a few of those to turn the ship around. QUOTE (Chisoxfn @ Jun 23, 2017 -> 12:29 PM) Actually the past few years, the Lakers have lost out on every single priority free agent they wanted (hence Mozgov / Deng signings of a year ago). I expect that story to change and the Lakers have a leg up on us (from a pure marketing ploy in a sales pitch...imo). For the Bulls to hit on their strategy, they will need to win free agency. They have actually hit on free agency in the past....it didn't work out the way they wanted and I have no idea what the Wade news does / sends around the league. But people are crazy if they think we can get good without hitting in free agency (it has to be an integral part of any plan given the current climate of the NBA). Do we actually hit...heck if I know...put us against the Lakers and we will likely lose to them...put us against a lot of other teams and I'd argue Chicago is in a strong spot. There are better locations though but a lot of that is circumstance based. I don't remember if the Lakers were in pursuit of Durant, Lebron the past few years, however Howard publicly demanded to play LA right before that. Part of the reason they weren't competitive in the FA market is the team wasn't truly in rebuild until Kobe retired. Now they have a strong young core lead by a pass first PG, it's going to be hard for the Bulls to compete with them for the top FA's going forward.

QUOTE (Chisoxfn @ Jun 23, 2017 -> 10:57 AM) I don't view the Bulls rebuild that differently from the Lakers. Both teams keys to success will be a combination of the draft and FA. If Bulls are going to succeed, at some point they have to hope they can sign in two stars. The downfall is we will be contending with the power of LA and we have Gar (vs. them having Magic). I actually don't think Paxson is a negative to FA's (he's not Magic Johnson)...but Gar and the stuff on him is just bad news. It will be nice if we get some transcending player (or two or three) via the draft as well. But I wouldn't be shocked if next year Bulls are going all in on 2018/2019 to sign two guys. Would have been nice if Lavine wasn't a RFA at the end of the year (would be great to have an extra year having him on a good contract...as that would have given Bulls a lot more time to lay low on cap space while accumulating assets). Except players have time and time again said they want to play for the Lakers, Paul George being the latest and will likely head there after this season. When was the last time someone came out and said they want to play for the Bulls?

QUOTE (Tony @ Jun 22, 2017 -> 11:56 PM) That's an interesting point I haven't seen anywhere. I don't see Q moving in the next 10 days or anything, but IF that somehow did happen, and there was still a plan to move guys like Robertson, Kanhle, Swarz, ect...you better be careful because the starting rotation probably isn't going to give you much on a game to game basis, and that bullpen ERA is going to start to rise. We do have a guy named Carlos Rodon on the verge of coming back.

QUOTE (Chisoxfn @ Jun 22, 2017 -> 10:51 PM) KC Johnson had this blurb in his article (which I haven't seen anyone talk about). I'm looking at Zoom for my answer (if he hasn't had too many fancy beers). What is the unique structure in Rondo's contract? I presume Rondo's option somehow counts (and a team can walk away from it)...so technically Bulls can leverage the cap exeption and Rondo to help facilitate moves when FA opens (and ideally accumulate some picks)? Or am I being way too optimistic? Apparently Rondo's contract is only guaranteed $3 mil is waived before 6/30. I see no chance of him not being waived by then.

QUOTE (Chisoxfn @ Jun 22, 2017 -> 08:32 PM) Are you implying we are going to go heavy in FA? Who is even worth going heavy in FA? Hayward is obviously good...but he isn't coming to Chicago. This is wishful thinking, but sign Griffin or Hayward, and in 2018 after we let Wade and Rondo walk trade RoLo and we have only around $45 mil committed to Griffin, Lavine, Dunn, Markkanen and Portis. May be enough to draw two FA's in next years loaded class.

Interestingly we're $27-28M under cap right now without offering QO to Niko or MCW. Is that why we traded away the 16th pick?

QUOTE (ZoomSlowik @ Jun 22, 2017 -> 07:09 PM) Don't forget they traded 2 firsts to get McDermott. If they take Markkanen, I will personally disembowel GarPax. Lauri Markkanen is Finnish for Andrea Bargnani. Yea I forgot about that. If I'm an NBA GM, I'd call Gar Forman everyday. At least I know I can take his balls and some draft picks with me. Dude is absolutely clueless.

We managed to trade McDermott, Gibson AND a pick for CAM f***ING PAYNE. Now we have to trade Bulter AND a first round pick for Torn ACL, future bust, and a 7th pick? This is the worst FO in the history of NBA!

To say Lavine was a poor man's healthy Derrick Rose is overstatement. So why exactly do we want another athletic player with a torn ACL after just getting rid of one?

So essentially Jimmy for Lavine, Dunn, and a pick in the 10-14 range. GTFO GarPax.

At end of the day, we aren't siginig any high schoolers, so if Sheet signs for overslot but we still sign Skoug, I'm sure no one would complain. But I think many has expected Skoug to be an overslot signing.

QUOTE (Quinarvy @ Jun 21, 2017 -> 04:37 PM) Yet there were analysts surprised he wasn't picked higher The fact that he wasn't, and that he was universally ranked lower than he was drafted tells me he won't get overslot from many teams, especially whopping $600K overslot. I think this could really impact our ability to sign Skoug.