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QUOTE (Soxbadger @ Jun 22, 2017 -> 01:30 PM) Rather build it around Wiggins than Dunn though? If I was the bulls and Butler isnt in their long term plans I could be convinced to do something like 7+ Wiggins + Future 1st (could be pretty far out). Then id try and use that #7 to jump and get Fox. Or I guess you can just try and get the Suns to deal #4 and future picks for Butler. But if I could get Fox + Wiggins for Butler Id at least feel like I have a chance at making the Bulls something competitive. I'm not too big on Dunn. But yes, if we get both Fox and Wiggins for Butler, I'd take it.

If I am to rebuild, I'm not sure if I want to rebuild around Wiggins. Dude is going to be a scorer, may in the caliber of Melo one day. He has a high perceived value due to being a #1 pick, but I'm not sure if he does enough of anything else to be the 3rd best player on a championship team.

Gave him the bonus of a 34th pick, but was ranked from 57th to 68th prospect per BA, MLB, and ESPN. Pretty sure no one else would have gave him $600K above slot.

QUOTE (Chisoxfn @ Jun 21, 2017 -> 09:55 AM) Wade opting in should tell everyone what they should expect regarding Buckets. Pretty much seals the fate for any Butler trade. I suspect they will settle for that European PG and a couple of end of bench guys and call it an off season. (God forbids they signing Iggy, talk about a horrible fit). I think 2018 offseason is when we see the real actions take place. Wade and Rondo coming off the books, Butler and RoLo are the only guaranteed contracts in the books. We may make another FA push then, or just trade those two for picks and completely tank for next 2-3 years.

QUOTE (Sox-35th @ Jun 21, 2017 -> 03:06 PM) 1987-1991 is not "before Jordan" A rebuild essentially ends once you land a superstar. Once that happens, you build around them, but you no longer tank because you no longer need to Huh? I think that's why I said.

QUOTE (Soxbadger @ Jun 21, 2017 -> 09:57 AM) The Bulls were bad before MJ. Outside of 1980-81 the Bulls were sub .400 from 1978-79 through 1983-1984. The point of the MJ comment was that even after the Bulls selected arguably the greatest player in NBA history, it took them over 5 years to get to the NBA Finals. And I understand how valuations work. Which is why the Bulls would be getting a lot more future picks than present picks. There is a lot of risk involved, but the more picks you have the more you spread out the risk. At this point Butler is the best trade piece the Bulls have to somehow get themselves on a track to the NBA Finals. I do not believe that a mid/late round pick + expiring contracts will get them anywhere. Except that the Bulls won an average of over 50 games from '87-91, made 2nd round, 2 ECF, and finally the Finals during that time. I would not call that part of the rebuild. Take that MJ example for a second, even after you collect all your picks 5-7 years from now, it will still take you a number of years to develop players and chemistry before becoming a true contender. If that fails, you'd start over again.

QUOTE (Soxbadger @ Jun 20, 2017 -> 05:09 PM) The problem is supposedly Celtics said "no" to 3 straight up. Who knows if that is true, but I am trying to work in the framework of the rumors we are being told. And 5-7 years to win a NBA Championship is being realistic. Jordan was drafted in 1984, Bulls first Championship was 1991. Its hard to imagine scenarios given the current state of the NBA where the Bulls would be able to win a NBA Championship faster than 7 years from now. Come on, Bull did not have a 7 year rebuild plan in the 80's, they were consistently in the ECF before they won the Finals. There's a difference between having their plan working out in the 7th year and having a plan that includes a return in 7th year, who may turn out to be a bust. There is no guarantee that Cavs will be a bottom 5 team by 2020; one would have expected Spurs to fade post Duncan, or the Lakers to fade after Kareem, Magic, or Shaq left or retired, it's not always a guarantee. A first round pick 5-7 years from now is worth A LOT less than a first round pick 1-2 years from now in the NBA.

QUOTE (Soxbadger @ Jun 20, 2017 -> 04:33 PM) Im not running the Bulls, I wouldnt do any of that. But if the Bulls want to trade Butler this year, then I am going to discuss what I believe to be the best possible deals this year. So what the Bulls wont get full return until 2024? The reality of the NBA is that it is hard to believe the Bulls are going to be a Championship level team in the next 7 years? So why not do something to put themselves in the mix to be one of the teams who are Championship level in the next go around? Allegedly Boston said no to #3 for Butler. That isnt even a great deal for the Bulls. 1 top 3 pick isnt going to change their trajectory. They need multiple high level picks. If they cant get them in the next 2-3 years, may as well aim further out. And just because its rare for a GM to do it, doesnt mean its not the right move for the team. (edit) Illini, Well part of the reason you aim even further out with the Cavs is that James is 32. in 2022 hell be 37 so who knows if he is even an elite player at that point. Not saying these are the best packages Bulls will get, but if given a package of #3, and 2 mid first rounders vs. 3 Cavs first round picks from 2020 and beyond, you'd pick the first package. The latter offer is too far out and comes with a lot of unknowns. If any GM is planning for a 7 year rebuild, they should fired.

QUOTE (Soxbadger @ Jun 20, 2017 -> 04:11 PM) Celtics arent worth dealing with right now. If they wont even give up #3 there is just no point even discussing. If they are really going to move Butler, I think the best idea is something really outside of the box like trading for Cleveland's picks in 2020/beyond. The Bulls then will suck hardcore for the next 2-3 years and then by that time Cavs will likely suck too, so youd be looking pretty good in 5 years. So you wouldn't take the 3rd pick this year, but would take some unknown slot picks from 3-5 years from now? It's rare to see GM willing to settle for that far in advance because they may not be around by that time. You also have to take into consideration you can't have two consecutive years without 1st round pick, so you might have to settle for Cavs 2020, 2022, and 2024 1st round picks, which means you won't get full return from the trade for 7 years.

After Skoug and rest of top 10 signs, we may still have $400K plus the $100K base offer, which could be enough to nab a mid-tier high school or JuCo kid. We may very likely just be pocketing the money after the Robert signing, which is disappointing.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Jun 20, 2017 -> 03:41 PM) With amounts being released for Burger, Gonzalez, Johnson, Dedelow, and Olson, the Sox are $825,900 ahead of their draft pool cap. Is that the number before they go into pick penalty? They should have gamble on a couple of high schoolers at the start of Day 3.

So the only HS kid that we have a small chance of signing is Dylan Horvitz, 38th round pick. Not much scouting report available on him, likely not a projectable prospect. Even if we have leftover money from the underslot signings, it doesn't look like it's an exciting year for draft pick signings.

QUOTE (Jenksy Cat @ Jun 20, 2017 -> 02:53 PM) Pickup Dwight Howard & Jason Terry. Make a run at the Warriors Can't tell if this is serious.

QUOTE (Soxbadger @ Jun 19, 2017 -> 02:31 PM) I dont disagree. I just disagree with the value. Josh Jackson shot sub 60% from FT. He is not a very good shooter. There are some other guys who id take over him if I was completely restarting a franchise. Because they are more boom/bust, and with GSW being the team to beat, you need scorers. (edit) I think the part you keep missing is I dont really want #3 in this draft. Id rather get more future picks than the #3 in this draft. if I had the #3 and i was rebuilding, Id probably take Fox. Jackson improved as a outside shooter as the college season went on, and he still was averaged over 16 points a game and shot over 50% as a freshmen despite not having a reliable jump shot. Shooting is the last thing to develop for NBA players so I'm not worried about it at all. Let's not forget some of the best two way players today, Jimmy, Kawhi, Greak Freak all came into the league as athletic defenders and developed offense overtime. If we want to go back further, Wall, Westbrook, Derrick Rose, Kobe, T-mac, some kid named LBJ all couldn't shoot before they got into the league. Jackson definitely was the talent to develop into an elite two player.

QUOTE (Soxbadger @ Jun 19, 2017 -> 02:16 PM) Well say 1%. Not to mention there is still the chance that some team offers a really great package for Butler. The chances of winning the title if you trade Butler for #3, Zeller and Bradley is 0%. A three way trade with Butler for #3, and Bradley, Zeller going to a third team for expiring gives you #3, and perhaps 2 mid-round first rounders. You may get a slightly better offer elsewhere, you may not, but you will not get an offer anywhere close to #3, BKN, LAL, and LAC 1st rounders.

QUOTE (Soxbadger @ Jun 19, 2017 -> 02:13 PM) I think youd have to go back to 2013 for Jackson to be in the argument #1 overall. No way he goes before Simmons, KAT, Wiggins. If it isnt the right deal, you pass. That is the NBA. If you start talking .50 for top level players, you will never win a championship. The only way the Bulls have any chance of winning the foreseeable future is to lure a free agent to play with Butler. If the Bulls couldn't lure FA to come here before, it's harder than ever now with player incentivized by staying with draft team. I think the actual way to win these days is to acquire as much asset as possible and build within, then to attract FA's when you have a strong young core. Bulls are soon to be overtaken by the teams (Sixers, Bucks) adopted to this philosophy, and already overtook by the Celtics who has done the same. Let's not forget the Rose/Thibs era started because of the draft, and the biggest FA we acquired was Boozer.

QUOTE (fathom @ Jun 19, 2017 -> 01:36 PM) https://www.milb.com/voyagers/news/voyagers...ter/c-237427276 One familiar name in the footprint is first year pitching coach, and former Sox draft pick and local product John Ely. Had no idea he was promoted to the majors and pitched 100 innings in 2012, after a pretty bad year in the minors nonetheless. Good for him that he's now covered with lifetime pension and healthcare coverage, and found a new role back in the organization that drafted him.

QUOTE (Soxbadger @ Jun 19, 2017 -> 01:52 PM) If Boston wanted Butler they could have traded #1. There is no point in taking #3 from the team who had #1 and could have directly traded it to the Bulls. Who knows what will happen, but most people believe that Fultz is the best player in this draft. Now that may not happen, but the trade should have gone to the Bulls for #1 and then if the Bulls wanted to do something else, they could have moved the pick. Since the Celtics didnt trade the #1 to the Bulls, i cant imagine the Bulls take the #3. The only way that would make any sense is if the Bulls are getting multiple 1st rounders plus the #3 and the Celts wanted the extra pick from the 76ers. IE the Bulls are getting #3 this year, BKN 2018, LA 2018, 2019 LAC Now that is a deal for Butler and you can live with the swap down to #3 in this years draft. Let's be real here, you aren't getting that offer for Butler from any team, especially with Jackson being a #1 pick candidate in a different draft. I highly doubt you'd find a better deal in this year's draft (meaning Lakers or Sixer don't need Butler now), and his value will only go down next year by being one year closer to free agency. So you want them to just stand pat?

QUOTE (Brian @ Jun 19, 2017 -> 09:16 AM) I'm starting to think having the entire tag division on one show and all the women on the other is the way to go. Maybe I'm alone. I don't have a problem with Carmella having the briefcase. I think she has improved greatly and needed it to get to that next step. It was like, "Women can't climb that high so let's have a man go get it and give it to one of them!" I'd be down with that. I especially think there aren't enough talent warrant two women's divisions. I mean I like the four horse women and Alexa, but rest of the talents are not established or they aren't good enough workers to carry a division (I'm looking at you Naomi and Carmella). It'd be better to have them all on one show and build up low card, mid card, and main event type feuds.

We may have just 2 years of Jimmy Butler left before he walks for nothing. If we get that package from Bos, I'd bite. Bradley and Zeller you can turn around and flip for multiple draft picks as they're expiring contracts.

QUOTE (buhbuhburrrrlz @ Jun 19, 2017 -> 01:05 PM) <!--quoteo(post=3526198:date=Jun 19, 2017 -> 11:59 AM:name=JenksIsMyHero)-->QUOTE (JenksIsMyHero @ Jun 19, 2017 -> 11:59 AM) <!--quotec-->So Stephen A Smith apparently reported this morning that the Sixers turned down a Butler for pick #3(and potentially more) deal. Stephen A says CELTS trying to get both Hayward and Butler KC Johnson says: Right now, league belief is Celtics will use No. 3 pick and chase Gordon Hayward in free agency, not pursue Jimmy Butler. I think they have the assets and salary space to get both - trade #3, Bradley, and Zeller for Butler, and sign Hayward in FA. But that would create logjam of wingmen for them, unless they want to go small and put Brown or Crowder at 4.

QUOTE (Y2HH @ Jun 19, 2017 -> 05:41 AM) I thought it was pretty silly -- Carmella is not over whatsoever...and having someone win the briefcase that wasn't even in the match with the excuse "yea but there are no rules" is just absurdity. I mean, why would you push Lynch or Flair when the crowd actually wants that? That's why I am not a fan of MITB matches, at least how they book it. Heels win 80% of the time. I don't care for Corbin on the mic or as a character, Carmella could have potential to be a good heel, but with all the Ellsworth stuff I just can't take her seriously. Please do not let Lana wrestle another match, it was also. After a good year for women's wrestling last year, most of the matches this year has been lackluster. The only other match I saw was the WWE Championship match, I thought the match was better than last time, but the finish was weak.

2-3 with 2 BB and 2 SB for Robert. After not playing professionally for a year, hopefully a game like this help knock off the rust and get him back into a groove.

QUOTE (Rowand44 @ Jun 16, 2017 -> 12:21 PM) I'm too lazy to do a top 30 here at lunch but I think I'd slot Burger in at 8. For me: Moncada Kopech Robert Hansen(yes I know this is higher than probably everyone) Gio Collins Lopez Burger Dunning Fulmer He may be #4 or even 3 for me by end of season if he continues to perform (and limit BB%) in High A. I have him at 7 right now just because he hasn't pitched above Low A.

I'm putting Kopech ahead of Moncada simply because I like his chances of reaching his ceiling with the Sox rather than Moncada could. 1. Kopech 2. Moncada 3. Robert 4. Lopez 5. Giolito 6. Collins 7. Hansen 8. Dunning 9. Fulmer 10. Burdi 11. Burger 12. Guerrero 13. Stephens 14. Adams 15. Delmonico 16. Tilson 17. Call 18. Sheets 19. Basabe 20. Cooper 21. Adolfo 22. Flores 23. Fisher 24. L Gonzalez 25. Skoug 26. Hamilton 27. T Johnson 28. Henzman 29. Clark 30. McClure