CWSpalehoseCWS

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Jan 9, 2017 -> 10:14 PM) Then wait for a team's level of desperation to change. We have valued him fairly given his contract status. If teams like the Pirates and Astros think their rotations are satisfactory, then wish them good luck and we'll see if they have the best deal come midseason. Look how we're already saying that the value of Torres changed for the Yankees just in a 3 month period - there will be different teams in the game in June. You also are banking on them still being in the race come July. There's always a chance one of these teams is worse than they appear on paper; happens all the time. At least right now you have 2 teams theoretically bidding against each other.

QUOTE (ChiSoxFanMike @ Jan 9, 2017 -> 08:17 PM) Rum Bunter also says the Pirates are less likely to trade Bell than Meadows. If that's the case, the 3 player package is most likely Glasnow/Newman/Keller which would be disappointing. I'd be very shocked if Hahn accepted that.

QUOTE (WhiteSoxLifer @ Jan 9, 2017 -> 07:50 PM) The problem is we've seen the sox try buying position players and were its gotten them. Having pitching helps but if you cant put together the position side then you are right back where you started. Sox need to be working on getting position players back with the rest of the chips they have. They have no future 3rd baseman, 1st baseman, dh, and need more outfield depth. They dont have much catching until collins gets here which is a couple years away and thats if he fully stcks. They also had Danish, Holmberg, and Volstad as the closest thing to starter depth before the Sale and Eaton trades. Pitching wins ball games; hitting wins ball games - it's an argument of opinion. The Sox have proven the past decade they struggle when it comes to developing MLB hitters, which makes me very worried if they were to turn around and trade for nothing but young positional prospects. Let them develop these young pitchers (which we know they are better than most), and then sign positional talent to plug holes. They still have at least 2 more off seasons to go along with 2 more drafts. There will be more opportunities to add positional prospects. We don't know what shape the organization will be in financially in 2018/2019. They might just be able to go after some of the premium talent available in those FA classes. Man... Hurry up Hahn and get this over with!

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Jan 9, 2017 -> 07:22 PM) Not to belabour the Cubs' stocking up of talent point: But they turned Soler at least into Wade Davis for a one year rental Vogelbach to the Mariners for Montgomery The Chapman trade for Torres/McKinney So why is the White Sox "pitching depth" actually a problem? The Cubs STILL have Happ and Jimenez, not to mention Candelario with no clear path to the majors. Schwarber/Baez all have playing time limitations due to TOO MUCH DEPTH...we'll see with Contreras, but he looks like he'll get at least 130-140 games at catcher. At any rate, they'll address their pitching weaknesses as needed. As long as they keep producing position players who make valuable contributions at the big league level, they'll continue to find trading partners for pitching help. They're honestly the exact opposite of each other. The Cubs had and still have an over abundance of positional talent and had to buy pitching. The Sox are acquiring an over abundance of pitching talent and will most likely need to buy positional talent. I don't think there's anything wrong with that. They are adding talented players and playing into their strength - developing pitching. Cubs did the same thing only reverse and played into what they felt they were better at.

QUOTE (oldsox @ Jan 9, 2017 -> 04:30 PM) Kopech dominated in A+ last year and is slated for AA this year, which hopefully means AAA next year, or earlier. He is mature; just look at his hair. He dominated because his stuff is unlike any other at that level. I really hope the Sox don't do their classic rush job on him. He had a very high 5.3 BB/9 last year which signifies to me he's still learning how to pitch. The stuff is there, now he needs to learn how to harness it and not just throw it by guys.

QUOTE (ChiliIrishHammock24 @ Jan 8, 2017 -> 09:42 PM) I would take Glasnow, Keller, Newman, and Hayes. Although it would have been nice to get a stud OF in one of the Sale, Eaton, Q trades (Basabe is too raw right now). A package of Glasnow/Keller would be very similar to the Giolito/Lopez combo where one Glasnow has always been the blue chip slam dunk pitching prospect, but then 2016 sees another pitcher shoot up their list and some scouts now think is better than the longtime top prospect. Sickels on Keller: "3) Mitch Keller, RHP, Grade B+/A-: Age 20, second round pick in 2014 from high school in Iowa; 2.35 ERA with 138/19 K/BB in 130 innings between Low-A and High-A, 101 hits; ideal build at 6-3, 195; fastball up to 93-97 MPH, curveball has become a plus pitch, change-up solid-average, command and control of all pitches took a huge step forward; some sources now regard him as a better prospect than Glasnow due to better control and they might be right; has history of forearm problems so sturdiness remains unproven; number two starter upside. ETA 2019. " And I don't have a subscription to Baseball America to read the report, but they have Keller as the #2 PIT prospect behind Meadows, but ahead of Glasnow. Now when this guy says Glasnow and Newman as headliners, if he is essentially counting out Keller, then the package would have to be something like Glasnow, Newman, Hayes, Hearn, and Diaz. BA describes Keller as having a FB that tops 97 with late life to cause many swings and misses to go along with a very good 11-5 CB. They bring up concerns about his durability but ultimately say he has the stuff to be a top-of-the-rotation starter by 2018-19. I think I would rank him higher than Glasnow as well considering he had a measly 1.3 BB/9 last year. That's pretty damn good if he indeed hits 97 with the heater.

QUOTE (soxforlife05 @ Jan 8, 2017 -> 12:04 AM) I don't get this move if we are going to suck Narvaez should be getting as many chances to be the full time guy as Avi has. He should be playing almost every game. I don't get the sense Soto being brought in to be the starter. Narvaez and Smith have a combined total of 297 innings behind the dish. The Sox need a veteran presence to guide whoever the Sox move forward with.

QUOTE (bmags @ Jan 7, 2017 -> 10:33 PM) Enjoy Charlotte Wonder what that means for Eddy Alvarez. Would have thought he was looking at the SS job in Charlotte.

QUOTE (witesoxfan @ Jan 7, 2017 -> 04:25 PM) The Astros have Keuchel, McCullers, McHugh, Fiers, Morton with Musgrove and Paulino in the wings. It's not the most overpowering rotation, but it's not a bad rotation to enter a season. I never said it was bad, but that rotation will not beat the Red Sox or Indians.

QUOTE (Con te Giolito @ Jan 7, 2017 -> 02:22 PM) They should've gotten the deal they got + Devers. Sox wound up atoning for their mistake with Boston by doing so well in the Eaton deal, but they handled the Sale trade pretty poorly. If Moncada achieves his ceiling nobody will care (nor should they really) but if he doesn't the lack of depth pieces in the Sale return will be highlighted I think you're undermining the value of Kopech and potential Basabe brings. The Sale deal is not a loss for the White Sox nor a win for the Red Sox.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Jan 7, 2017 -> 03:14 PM) Because the one thing that does change is the desperation level of other teams. You want an example of that? Addison Russel for Jeff Samardzija. If we have reached a point where there are no other teams willing to move top flight talent for a strong, #2 or better pitcher, that situation will almost certainly change in the future. Worth thinking about - one of the reasons why there may not be teams willing to make that kind of move right could very well be the fact that we've already devastated 2 other systems. So yes, any team trading for him later will have him for less time, but baseball history shows that teams do reach a point where they will make larger sacrifices. I would be stunned if the Stros or Pirates did not do this. Frankly, I will call them stupid. I think I did that a page ago in different words. But if they're going to be dumb, then wait for teams who aren't. I totally agree with you on the Astros. They are idiots if they do not attempt to improve their starting pitching. No organization can win strictly on home-grown talent. Even the Cubs who hit on just about every position player in their system had to buy Arrieta, Lester, Chapman, and now Davis from other teams or the FA market. The Pirates are in between a rock and a hard place though. They have a much tougher hill to climb in that division, so I could see them weighing the cost of someone like Q and whether it truly puts them over the top. I personally don't think he makes them THAT much better that he needs to be acquired - especially if the Sox asking price is as high as it appears to be.

QUOTE (steveno89 @ Jan 6, 2017 -> 06:27 PM) I know it's trash, but it's interesting to discuss I'd have to agree. More often than not that site grasps at straws, but it doesn't hurt to discuss it. Martes, Tucker, and Paulino are the Astros 1, 2, and 4 prospects. That's not that bad, although I really wish they would get some damn hitters.

Coats always screamed AAAA player. I wouldn't be surprised to see him get through waivers. Solid move to trade him for a toolsy younger OF'er.

QUOTE (Deadpool @ Dec 29, 2016 -> 02:44 PM) His prime isn't much. Do GMs still care about "on pace for" homer numbers? Using that argument, Sale and Eaton were traded for absolutely garbage then, especially with Moncada and his .211 BA. There are many cases where a certain player takes longer to breakout and begin playing more consistently. Players don't just stop progressing once they hit a certain age. Jose Bautista is a perfect example (he didn't hit over 16 HR's until he was 29 yrs. old). Not that I think Lawrie is a superstar-in-the-making, but he's not a terrible player like a few people on here suggest. He's average right now and has flaws, but the potential for him to become better than he has been still exists (just as it does for him to become worse).

QUOTE (Thad Bosley @ Dec 29, 2016 -> 02:08 PM) I don't think there's much to sell high on, unless in addition to staying healthy he takes his game to somewhat of a higher level. To date, even a healthy Lawrie has been mediocre at best. He's not a superstar, but he was on pace for around 20 HR's last year. He'll also be just 27, entering his prime, and is making less than he made last year. There are teams that add that type of player every year at the deadline for the playoff push.

QUOTE (Saufley @ Dec 29, 2016 -> 10:55 AM) Is Lawrie really needed on this team? Personally, Laurie is the perfect sell-high guy at the deadline this season as long as he can stay healthy.

QUOTE (soxforlife05 @ Dec 25, 2016 -> 10:56 PM) I don't think Severino is any better than Narvaez. If they trade for him that tells me they are already giving up on Collins as a catcher. I wouldn't think that at all. Severino is no sure bet to stick as a MLB regular any more than Narvaez or Collins are. It doesn't hurt to have more than 1 option in one of the weakest areas of depth for the Sox.

QUOTE (BlackSox13 @ Dec 25, 2016 -> 12:53 PM) I think it shows more understanding of what's going on. Look at the buzz that began after one tweet from Olney on the 21st that mentions the Pirates being interested in Q. That's not to say the Pirates aren't interested in Q or that Olney was wrong in his tweet, just that maybe we shouldnt put too much stock into what we read on the internet. Rumors are fun but they are rumors afterall. I also agree with waiting to deal Q until July IF Hahn is not getting his asking price now. I agree, although I do think it would be better for the Sox if Q is dealt now as opposed to later in the season. Not that I want them to force the issue and move him just to move him, but it puts the team in a better direction. I get the impression that it was leaked to get another team to move in on Q in fear of losing out on him.

QUOTE (Con te Giolito @ Dec 22, 2016 -> 08:35 PM) Frazier market will probably start heating up a little. Hopefully, but there are still plenty of options in Trumbo and Bautista.

This sounds like one of those "must be added to the MLB roster by May 1st" type of deals. I'd be shocked if he actually find his way back to the majors this year, but good for him.

QUOTE (Jose Abreu @ Dec 12, 2016 -> 06:57 PM) Doubt they're too mad, given that they traded with us 26 hours afterwards And that trade was far worse for them. I'd be more shocked if Rizzo wants to go round 3 with Hahn after the beating he's taken. Can't imagine what their fans must think.

QUOTE (iamshack @ Dec 10, 2016 -> 09:08 PM) He skipped their fan festival as a result of the Eaton trade, and so they said the hell with you. I bet he was the "WTF" text that Rosenthal got. What a s*** thing to do to the fans.

QUOTE (bmags @ Dec 10, 2016 -> 10:37 PM) Yeah, most interesting stuff was giolito but it also reinforced for me buckets line that deals getting done soon depends on other GMs not Hanna willingness to continue rebuild Makes me think there are plenty of offers out there to other teams, and it really comes down to if they want to move forward or not.

Some tidbits for anyone interested: - Rick said this is a long process, and that everyone in the organization are aware this is at the beginning. - They are trying to figure out what is the next step is in the process. - Acknowledged that the team tried to plug holes last few years, but unfortunate it didn't work. - These trades put the Sox in a more secure spot than prior offseasons. - These trades are not about trying to patch holes. - They are looking for a high volume of impact guys, and said it is a necessity for long term success. - The idea of a rebuild had been talked about with KW and JR in 2007, 2010, 2013, 2014, & 2015 offseasons but decided now was the opportune time to actually go through with it. - He's eager to get things right and ready to do more moves, however pace needs to be dictated by the market. - Giolito struggled in debut, but said it is not shocking because he's young. Said the Sox, unlike the Nats, have luxury to be patient with his development and allow him to go to Triple-A. - They asked is Hahn felt guilty in Eaton trade and fleecing the Sox did to the Nationals, hahaha! Hahn was professional and sidestepped question mentioning the only guilt was towards Eaton himself because of the circumstances he was being moved. Said he talked to Adam and said it was not the intention to signing him to a long-term deal only to move him. - On if ever dealing with Cubs, Hahn said it is foolish to take option off the table, especially when the team is in another league. - On trading Q, it depends on what the market value is for him. - He realizes that all 7 prospects received will not all hit their ceilings, looking to build a core which is why it is important to keep adding. - Hahn said it's nice to see the Sox logo next to the top prospect rankings. - Again said his wish is to keep rolling and do "another one" today, but cannot force this. - Moving guys could go into the season and next offseason. Again, depends on what the market dictates. I would say judging by what was said, I would be absolutely shocked if the Sox don't make another move. It did not seem like Hahn views Quintana as a long-term piece towards the rebuild either. I think it's almost a guarantee he gets moved before the season starts. Pretty good listen though, don't let my notes stop anyone from taking 14 minutes to hear it.

If Houston finds the asking price for Q too big... ... there are alternatives available.