Baron

QUOTE (bmags @ Jan 23, 2017 -> 02:29 PM) http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/2017-zips-p...sburgh-pirates/ Not sure if posted yet. Of note, Meadows already projected as a 2 WAR player, Newman as average. Rotation sure would look a lot nicer with a 4 war player, giving them 13 WAR from their staff. That article just shows me that they are still a ways off even with Q. Maybe they can compete with the Cardinals...maybe.

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Jan 23, 2017 -> 11:34 AM) Why would anyone even argue? Unless you know exactly what has been turned down, you have nothing to argue about. As far as I can tell, not one poster here has any idea what the White Sox have said no to yet. But there are huge problems. It's ridiculous. I think there's definitely an argument to be made about how long he should wait. No one is arguing that just because Spring Training is around the corner it's game over. I personally dont like the chances after the Trade Deadline.

QUOTE (Al Lopez's Ghost @ Jan 23, 2017 -> 11:17 AM) I think he's being sarcastic. I understood that. He's exaggerating what other people are arguing for and being sarcastic in the same post. The two arent mutually exclusive.

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Jan 23, 2017 -> 10:18 AM) No. They are all out. The Sox are stuck with Jose Quintana. If anyone ranks pitchers and he doesn't get ranked in the top 5 or 10, whoever is ranking them is a fool. And if RH values him like a top 5 or 10, he is asking for way too much. I mean, he's only signed for 4 more years. Take what you can get, and be done with it. There is no time to spare. Pitchers and catchers report in a month. Your hyperbole is unbearable sometimes. Literally nobody is saying this. Except for maybe that Con te Giolito dude on the rankings. Which is just dumb.

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Jan 22, 2017 -> 07:46 PM) Posturing. As opposed to Michael Jordan's forte against defenders at the rim. Luhnow is pretty delusional

Kind of off topic but related to my other post. Anybody else notice that after an accident like this or a shooting that it seems like every other country besides the US has no issue showing dead bodies on their local news channels or social media sites? Why do you think that is?

QUOTE (Sox-35th @ Jan 22, 2017 -> 10:17 AM) RIP. There's really no excuse for driving while intoxicated anymore. I dont know if that was the reason. Certainly could have been but no reports yet. Police twitter had the pic. Car fllipped. Didnt look long tbough because they still had the bodies laying there.

QUOTE (iamshack @ Jan 21, 2017 -> 01:43 PM) That simply has not been proven to be true. All I have to say is this...could you have gotten Andrew Benintendi at the deadline last year? He is someone you might not have identified last offseason. THERE WILL BE OTHER GUYS THAT TAKE HUGE STEPS BETWEEN NOW AND JULY. The Red Sox did exactly what these other teams are probably threatening to do. They didnt pull the trigger and road their offense. Fortunately for us it didnt work and we were able to cash in on a horrible free agent market. Next offseason that wont be the case as these teams will have more options. Sure these teams could pull the trigger before then and I hope they do. But if this thing goes past the deadline I'm not liking the potential outcome. Then you guys can sit here and preach patience when the market grinds to a halt. I seriously cant wait for the tune to change if this actually happens.

QUOTE (iamshack @ Jan 21, 2017 -> 01:31 PM) I just don't get the hang up here...there will be other guys that replace the ones that get moved up to the big league club...unless you are love with a particular guy, I don't get this fear at all. Havent we gone over this already? At the deadline there is going to be limits from these teams on who they'll be willing to give up. Even more so than the offseason. I dont see teams pulling players out of the lineup or their depth in AAA(major league ready prospects) for a player at the deadline. It's screwing themselves over for a playoff run. If you think the White Sox would take players further down the line then that's interesting. But from what we're witnessed so far that doesnt seem like their interested in a top player who's 5 years out headlining a package.

That's essentially what Luhnow was saying. They have pitching depth to replace injured starters. Pirates can sort of do that with Glasnow. This is why I dont like going into the season without resolving Q's status. The guys they would trade us are the guys they are going to use and potentially succeed with. That takes them out of the equation. Frankly I think that would be silly of them. But look at the GMs your dealing with and realize that's exactly what they could do.

Astros GM Jeff Luhnow: "I think the roster we have is probably the roster that we’re going to have to start the season.” https://twitter.com/jakemkaplan Posturing to the max.

Luis Castillo is good. Everyone else in that deal is not. Only thing is he's 24 and just finished AA. Marlins system is garbage.

QUOTE (CyAcosta41 @ Jan 18, 2017 -> 08:56 PM) You're not alone -- others have mentioned worrying about Rick overplaying his hand. I don't get the concern. At least I don't get it quite yet. It's 18-January; we've got roughly 75 days until the Sox open up on 3-April. Other than rumor, speculation, and possibly team spread leaks, we've got exactly zero hard evidence of who has offered what. But what we know for a certainty is that Q is currently the top available arm by far -- durable, consistent, professional, and by all of the generally accepted metrics a top 10-20 starter for the past four years in ALL OF BASEBALL. If that wasn't enough, he's under control for four years on an absolutely killer contract that provides near unheard of surplus value. Why the concern that Rick is OVERplaying his hand (when it's only 18-January)? Why not give the 2016/2017 version of Rick Hahn ... the dude who has shown his bona fides this year ... the guy who is clearly having an MVP offseason ... the benefit of the doubt? For the time being, why not assume that Rick Hahn is simply PLAYING his hand (not overplaying it ... playing it intelligently and with skill)? For the moment and arguably through the end of spring training, the Sox have ALL the leverage. Given what has transpired thus far this offseason, why take the risk of leaving "money on the table" by accepting the best deal now when the best deal later can very well be superior. I understand some concerns of a long-term hold and an overall shift in leverage when other top pitchers are available, but it sure looks like through 3-April there is one top dog, and we've got him. At worse, some close variation of deals that are available now will still be available on the last day of spring training (or the first day of spring training, take your pick). But Rick has no idea whether another 30-75 days of waiting will ratchet up the pressure on at least one potential trade partner such that they lap the field. I think he's playing his cards masterfully! Well one I dont have to give him the benefit of the doubt. Frankly my trust in him has gone down considerably even after the very good offseason. The rest doesnt apply to me at all. All I've been talking about is the deadline and next offseason. I'm not making a fuss about him not being traded today. But if we're walking into the season with him I think my opinion on that is fairly clear.

QUOTE (Jerksticks @ Jan 18, 2017 -> 03:10 PM) I totally sympathize with the get it done crowd. We all want to rip the bandaid off and start over with all the prospects ASAP. It sucks waiting for Christmas when you're a kid too. Trust in Santa Hahn- he's been marvelous. Has nothing to do with Christmas or getting the prospects ASAP. For me it's about overplaying his hand and having the other teams call your bluff that I'm worried about.

So lets just say a year passes and we're in this exact same spot with Q. The guys who are on board with waiting arent going to complain if his value drops right? You'll just say it was a risk worth taking?

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Jan 18, 2017 -> 12:14 PM) If the argument is that a deal has to be made right now, no matter what, you are saying that the team has to accept the best offer on the table, no matter what. That means taking potentially less than if you were able to wait out a better offer. So even if the statement isn't there, the idea is implicit in saying the trade has to get done NOW. Except no one is saying that. There's alot of unknown factors which I prefaced my statement with. My first assumption is I think Hahn's asking price is ridiculous and it doesnt correlated potentially with what other teams view Q as which is what Rabbit was alluding to. So they need to decide if that last part is especially the case do they gain anything from waiting? Does his value go up? My answer is no. I dont see a point in which if the answer to that last part being no there would be a positive outcome.

QUOTE (ChiSox59 @ Jan 18, 2017 -> 11:55 AM) Its sort of irrelevant, so I won't take the take to debate it, but there are definitely people here who's comments would lead you to believe they think the best plan of action right now is to accept the best offer on the table right now, whether or not it is up to par with with what Hahn wants. That is pretty much making a trade to make a trade. The Sox have nothing but time with Q. Settling for a trade at this juncture is asinine, IMO. That doesnt equate to the comment above. That's part of the overall discussion we are having. Personally and I have no proof of this but I bet Hahn is asking for a ridiculous return for Q. I think it's going to backfire if he's not traded by the start of the season.

QUOTE (ChiSox59 @ Jan 18, 2017 -> 11:49 AM) Ehhhh, slightly debatable. No it isnt. No one on here is asking just make a trade because I want a trade. There's been in depth conversation as to why it may not be prudent to wait sure. But that doesnt equate to that last remark. It's just lazy.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Jan 18, 2017 -> 11:33 AM) Which is why we need to be sure that what we get back has the high potential to be an upgrade, and not just a move to make the move. No one on here is arguing for that last part. I get sick of hearing it.

QUOTE (fathom @ Jan 17, 2017 -> 09:56 PM) The rumored package that Hahn wanted initially from the Astros was bad. If he has to accept even less than that, then shame on him. I feel like going over a month without a move has made a lot of people too anxious. The Musgrove one? I thought that was bad for Houston.

QUOTE (iamshack @ Jan 17, 2017 -> 09:48 PM) There will be A and AA players that take significant steps forward in the next 6 months. Right and if those teams think they are near the Majors why would they trade them at the deadline? Tucker isnt at AAA or Double A. But he's not so far away that you cant even dream about the team he would be playing for. These teams love their prospects especially Houston. It's a risk that I dont think is going to pan out well because after the deadline the offseason market for Q will probably be at a snails pace. I mean if your waiting until the deadline your atleast crossing Pittsburgh off.

QUOTE (iamshack @ Jan 17, 2017 -> 09:35 PM) Don't you think there will be other guys that make a move between now and the deadline that we will want? I think if your discussing anybody in AAA or in the Majors that's going to fall on deaf ears with alot of these teams. Even though the prospect rankings will change. I mean is it impossible to think Hahn's demands are completely asinine for Q? Also as stupid as it is to think Q isnt a top of the line pitcher maybe these teams have a different view of him. Then what? I think baseball has shown over the years that there are plenty of old farts stupid enough to dismiss what the data is showing them.

I think the point that is missing from the rebuttal of people like me who dont support waiting is Hahn would be deliberately reducing who he could acquire at the deadline. Lets say the Pirates say screw you White Sox we're going with what we have. They bring up Meadows and Glasnow who are both contributing to a team fighting for a playoff spot. You think they are going to be traded now? Nope. Same goes for Houston. They bring up Martes and Tucker moves up a few levels as he's almost ready. You think they are going to get traded? No. White Sox have acquired guys so far that arent far away. Your reducing these teams assets that they need to go fight for a playoff spot. They are going to probably offer you prospects in the lower levels of the farm system. What are the chances another team fighting for that spot sacrifices major league ready talent in the middle of the season? If the answer to that question is unlikely then you have a problem. That's where I'm at...I just dont see a good outcome if he's still on the roster by Spring Training other than him contributing to the team.

Lunhow makes me laugh

Yeah he said in his article "a deal could get done soon" Put more coal in the fire...the market is hot again