Bananarchy

QUOTE (bmags @ Jul 21, 2016 -> 12:05 PM) Re: misery. Honestly, it's less painful than now. Year 3 we will be getting antsy. But knowin gthere is a purpose goes a long way. 2013/2014 weren't that bad. I liked seeing the young talent play. Realistically, if this team is rebuilding, hopefully we'll be excited about draft picks by the time year three rolls around. The idea of being excited about the future would be so refreshing.

Heyman reporting Fulmer, Frazier, Robertson top Sox trading chips. I can't see a reason to move Fulmer over Sale, Q if we're selling.

QUOTE (Lip Man 1 @ Jul 21, 2016 -> 11:56 AM) The best move they can make and the FIRST move is for JR to s***can most of the folks on the baseball side and bring in people from winning organizations to look at the many Sox problems with a fresh set of eyes and new ideas. Mark I loathe comparing teams across sports, but White Sox ownership needs to do essentially what the Bears did. Fire the Vice President down, hire an expert baseball mind to help comb the league for a touted assistant GM in a winning organization.

QUOTE (Quinarvy @ Jul 21, 2016 -> 11:56 AM) There are three untouchables in a full scale fire sale. Anderson, Rodon, Fulmer. Sale could bring back an unprecedented haul. Q should bring back something slightly less than the Shelby Miller debacle. Gonzalez and Shields could probably bring in some decent fliers. Abreu's name would probably carry some value. Frazier's average is low, but he's producing runs. Bring some value. Eaton should bring some good value back. Melky should bring a decent prospect in. Robertson/Duke/Jones/Jennings can all bring in a decent prospect. Lawrie might. Just know, everyone here will be in misery for at least 3 years, regardless of return. It's probably the wise move at this point but still. Anderson, Rodon, Fulmer (now in the rotation) and Saladino would be the only watchable parts of it. You'd have to hope that the 2016 draft class are all fast risers to minimize the misery. Good stuff. I agree with all of this. I think the core of this fanbase can deal with being bad for a couple of season. The fickle fans already skip the games as is. At least our attendance would make sense.

QUOTE (elrockinMT @ Jul 21, 2016 -> 11:47 AM) I know folks are frustrated and so am I but I think we can still make a run for that second wild card spot. However, if reality kicks us in the teeth just what is the right way to rebuild? I read the calls for "blow it up" and "trade everyone" and "Fire Robin and all his staff". I am sure the team and ownership knows that there is plenty of blame to go around. However, generally a rebuild means you build around your best and that's what I would like to know from folks in a legitimate planned out fashion. Post your ideas for a 25 man team position by position and who who might legitimately trade for new pieces. "The best time to plant a tree was 20 years ago. The second best time is now" - Chinese Proverb Honestly, it should be right now. Crazy things happen at trade deadlines and some of the teams looking at serious postseason prospects will move young talent to achieve their short term goals. Now is the time. I would go position by position, but if we want to be relevant in the near future, it won't be pretty. Eaton, Frazier, Melky, Sale, and Q would be gone. Fulmer and Rodon in the rotation.

QUOTE (Rowand44 @ Jul 21, 2016 -> 11:50 AM) So is your plan at this point just staying put and trying to add pieces again next offseason? Serious question. Maybe he's actually Rick Hahn. At best, this plan gets interspersed good seasons. At worst, you get the White Sox. QUOTE (Baron @ Jul 21, 2016 -> 11:51 AM) I'm talking about next year. If you keep Sale and Q your going into next year with the same mentality as this past offseason. So we can be in the same spot next year? Nah. Let's get the rebuild going right away.

QUOTE (Baron @ Jul 21, 2016 -> 11:48 AM) I 100 percent agree. Which is why I dont get trading Frazier. If they offload him who's playing 3rd base? I mean they arent giving up on next year I'm guessing. So trading him is silly too. If we're selling, we don't care who plays third base for the current team. Those home runs might get someone to bite at what is otherwise a bad player.

QUOTE (Lillian @ Jul 21, 2016 -> 11:41 AM) Maybe the front office will try some kind of half measured "rebuild". They could keep the pitching, but try to assemble a better offense. That has been their biggest weakness. That middle of the order, consisting of Abreu, Melky and Frazier is not really very productive. With Abreu having an off year, and Frazier being an all or nothing slugger, they are not likely to score enough runs to make this squad contenders. The type of offensive and defensive talent the Sox need just don't become available on the open market. You need to draft and develop them in your organization or trade your working pieces for future stars. You're taking so much more risk trading Frazier or Melky. Neither of them will draw back the haul one of Sale or Q would draw. Having young talent opens up the payroll to acquire pitching, and for all the crap we give Hahn, he and Kenny know pitching. We need to stop using the term "being set". Unless you're consistently winning in the postseason, you're never "set". Being "set" doesn't win you anything. Move Sale, Q could net you a future center fielder. Finding one will be tough.

QUOTE (Chisoxfn @ Jul 21, 2016 -> 11:35 AM) On the other hand, you'd be trading him at peak value, but I agree, given our biggest issue is a lack of quality position players, I have a hard time moving Eaton. If the plan is to rebuild, everyone is for sale in my world. If the whole team is sold and bad, you might as well move Eaton.

QUOTE (Swingandalongonetoleft @ Jul 21, 2016 -> 10:18 AM) Initially I was in favor of dealing both, but I think I'd rather just see Q dealt for the time being . See what he can get and take it from there. I'd rather see the FO get had at the expense of Quintana than Sale if that's what it came to- which is not an unlikely outcome. It would sting less if they did. If we're going to trade one, I'd trade Sale and his one year shorter contract. I still contend selling both is better.

QUOTE (SexiAlexei @ Jul 21, 2016 -> 03:40 AM) At that point, why even expand? None of those schools improve your conference. As far as football is concerned, it just waters it down even more. It's obvious. Get championship game. get teams to CFP. Money. It's not hard. I'm just going by what I think is most likely. Memphis is a basketball fit and BYU is a traditional independent with a reasonably large following. QUOTE (Harry Chappas @ Jul 21, 2016 -> 10:12 AM) Does the BIG 12 have a championship game? With expansion it absolutely would.

QUOTE (FT35 @ Jul 21, 2016 -> 09:40 AM) Sale and Q are real MLB ready stars. I agree with you that teams are losing their minds...but what does that mean if we deal our 2 aces? It would cost us everything of value that we got FOR THEM to replace them when we are in a position of contention! And we better hope that those prospects we trade for GET US to a position of contention WITHOUT starting pitching! So it becomes a matter of considering Sale and Q a part of the future or not. In 3 years when all our newly acquired position player talent from our fire sale this year makes it big and they all become all-stars capable of carrying a team without starting pitching...who will pitch? How will we reacquire 2 aces (who we would have had under control STILL), when the price is as high as it is now (and sure to go higher by the time we need these guys)!? If you go the free agent route, you're rolling the dice on a Shark-type collapse, and you're likely paying $30M/year on that chance--now multiply that all by 2 and there is a lot of risk in replacing these 2 players. It may be decades before we have 2 aces under team-friendly affordable control like this again! As much as I like the idea of a rebuild--I think you rebuild around your biggest strength--even though your biggest strength carries the biggest trade value. The White Sox can't rebuild the organization and keep Q and Sale. They will be late in their contracts by the time the theoretical good talent acquired in the draft arrives in Chicago. Trading both accelerates your rebuild to the point where in a few years this team could be young and watchable. If you fail to move Q and Sale, you will have NO young, controlled major league talent. When Sale walks, you don't have them and you're still unexciting and not very good.

QUOTE (bjm676 @ Jul 21, 2016 -> 09:40 AM) not sure if this has been posted yet. article Article in the link states that the Sox had a scout in attendance watching Texas. If teams on the way outside looking in don't have scouts in Texas, Boston, they're not doing their jobs.

QUOTE (GreenSox @ Jul 21, 2016 -> 09:30 AM) Trading both means a complete teardown. I'm not convinced that's necessary. I'm not convinced this roster is set up for on last hurrah in 2017...well they could say it is, but the results will be no different. If you trade Q, you're gambling on Fulmer replacing Q; and if it doesn't work, you still got a fair return for Q. I think the gamble is a better bet than the gamble that this team, as constructed, will contend next year (even with the addition of some bat that Hahn would probably make). Now it would help if Rodon would get it together. I so, they'd have a rotation of a 1, 2 3s, and 2 5s. Not ideal, but not terrible if you have a decent O and play impeccable D. No depth though; they could make another move in offseason to bring a 4/5 in. One step back for two steps forward. You could also do the same thing with Eaton, but he isn't in as high demand this year. This post would be appropriate if this team were remotely good. They're not. Their can't be a "last hurrah" if there was no "first hurrah".

QUOTE (Greg Hibbard @ Jul 21, 2016 -> 09:22 AM) This west coast trip reminds me of the summer of '99 when Hawk just stopped speaking at all during the games because he was so beside himself I believe they went 0-8? I wish he would do that now.

QUOTE (Scoots @ Jul 20, 2016 -> 09:32 PM) It really is all mental with this team, from what I see. The more games they drop (especially like the ones today) the less of a chance they have at even contending for that WC spot. I think really this all boils down to one thing: LEADERSHIP, among the players and among the coaches. They need a kick in the ass. Just my take on what is going on. I love the Sox, I really do. I still look forward to games, hoping they will go on a magical 10 game win streak and never look back, but that is quickly fading away. Who knows, maybe they will actually take 3 out of 4 from Detroit and sweep the Cubs next week....HAHA jk. Leadership is part of it, but the entire culture throughout the organization is just broken. And I'm not sure lack of leadership makes bad players good or washed up former MVPs good in a sport where you really can't "play harder".

QUOTE (miracleon35th @ Jul 20, 2016 -> 10:09 PM) Any interview with Sox hater Dan Bernstein is going to have a lot of negativity toward the White Sox. Stone and Benetti are terribly annoying so among the changes, they both need to go. Dan Bernstein is a disenchanted White Sox fan. He should be. The organization has been awful for almost a decade.

QUOTE (CaliSoxFanViaSWside @ Jul 21, 2016 -> 08:11 AM) I say the Sox should try to extend Sale and Q again. See if they would take Danks type money. I know that would be a HUGE underpayment but another 4 years for each for $60-75M with no-trade options would be great. It would be a long shot but they have both seen what happened to Danks and they have to see all the Tommy Johns going on. Maybe they bite. Not sure why Sale in particular would want to play his prime years for a bad team. This type of thinking is a pipe dream. QUOTE (FT35 @ Jul 21, 2016 -> 09:18 AM) I'd love to keep both because I believe having both gives us the best chance to contend in the years we're supposed to be rebuilding for now. If someone wanted to overpay, I'd part with Q before Sale because Sale has become the face of the franchise. You want all his prime years to be here. ALTHOUGH...something to keep in mind, Sale has been very vocal at times with team matters. He's gone on some public rants about management decisions...makes me wonder if it's because they are like family and he knows that it won't effect their relationship or if there's really conflict between them. Quality starting pitching is causing some teams to lose their minds on the trade market. Teams would trade real, MLB ready talent to get an Ace starting pitcher like either of these guys. The White Sox are no longer in a position where they should be thinking about yearly reload. It's eroding their team, their farm system, their wallets, and their fanbase.

QUOTE (daggins @ Jul 21, 2016 -> 09:06 AM) Yeah, I agree with this. Hahn has his warts, and he may actually be bad at his job, but he ain't dumb. The question, I think, is what the goal of the sell is. Is it to contend in 2017? 2018? Beyond? We'll know in 10 days I suppose. I would hope for 2019, 2020. The reason I'm skeptical is I'm not sure the current FO can be counted on to draft fielding talent.

QUOTE (Heads22 @ Jul 20, 2016 -> 11:06 AM) I think there's only five real candidates. BYU, Colorado State, Memphis, Cincinnati, and UCONN. I'll go with BYU, Memphis

QUOTE (WhiteSoxLifer @ Jul 20, 2016 -> 06:59 PM) They just lost fielder so they maybe desperate They haven't really had Fielder this year. The DH was being used as a way to loosen up the log jam in the middle infield. QUOTE (OilCan @ Jul 20, 2016 -> 07:01 PM) At this point, if the Rangers wanted Abreu and Quintana for a package surrounding Profar and Dillon Tate, I might listen. Saw Profar at AAA Round Rock. Easily the best play on the field. He looks like he might be figuring the majors out, too. Problems with him are you can't necessarily count on his shoulder and he's been in the organization for a while, so his control isn't great.

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Jul 20, 2016 -> 01:08 PM) He also has his spots picked for him. If he was playing every day, his production on a per game basis probably takes some sort of hit. I would expect his defensive value to go up playing just one position. I know there are some intricacies regarding player value adjustment based on position, but don't most organizations prefer their top players get more at bats? The fact that Baez has improved without everyday at bats is remarkable.

QUOTE (ronkark @ Jul 19, 2016 -> 02:33 AM) Frazier: This is simply the Chicago hex. Pattern. Dunn on downside, LaRoche on downside. Frazier on downside. Only his upside isn't amazing. Power yes. But look at his second half last year. AWful. We banked on turn around. Well, he's worse. Much worse. LaRoche look at last year before we got him. Same thing. Strong start, awful 2nd half, we pick him up. Frazier swing for fences everytime and chases garbage. It's embarrassing. .210? Really? After the Dunn/LaRoche sagas? Unbelievable. You could have left out that bold sentence and I would have taken this more seriously. Hexes and curses are for bad Cubs fans. We gambled on a Frazier turnaround. While we lost, at least the guy is hitting for power.

QUOTE (Harry Chappas @ Jul 20, 2016 -> 08:21 AM) Did anyone see the play a he plate that Arrieta was called safe on? That is the reason review is needed. It was an absolutely horrendous call that was over turned. I'll not only agree, but I'll do you one better. Replace one of the field umpires with a replay umpire who watches every play from live media cam. There's no need to ever get a call wrong and the coach shouldn't have to demand the umpires correct themselves, either.

QUOTE (bmags @ Jul 20, 2016 -> 08:27 AM) I've never seen this kind of pressure from Chicago media to sell off before The perception in Chicago Sports Media (not the reality) is that the Cubs rebuilt their franchise on blowing everything up and building their minor league system. While a number of good Cubs players went through their minor league system and the Cubs appear to have drafted well, the Cubs FO found a great deal of success making moves that don't involve the farm system.