ChiSox59
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Posts posted by ChiSox59
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3 minutes ago, chitownsportsfan said:
and if Gio regresses to a 3 WAR pitcher or gets hurt...I mean all the concerns about the Twins rotation apply to Chicago's as well. I don't see an argument for saying their chances are weaker than Chicago's based on a rotation comp.
No doubt. Sox rotation is no for sure thing (to be clear, I didn't say it was, and wasn't really comparing the Twins to the Sox at all in that post). But at least we have a stable of young MLB ready SP. Obviously losing Gio would most likely kill the Sox 2020 chances as well....but to my knowledge he didn't struggle with elbow issues last year.
Twins also don't really have anything similar to Kopech and Cease. Graterol is interesting and will likely pitch some for the Twins in 2020, but he is more than likely a pen arm.
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12 minutes ago, SonofaRoache said:
The Twins are going to be right there for the division. All hell would have to break lose for that not to happen.
I mean, if they lose Berrios, their pitching is really bad. That may be big if, but he had elbow issues last year and lost a ton of velo. I wouldn't be shocked if his misses time this year, and there is some internal concern about his arm.
I don't think "all hell needs to break lose" for the Twins to be a .500ish team. Father time finally catches Cruz. Berrios gets hurt. Polanco, Kepler and Garver regress to the mean. They get close to nothing out of Dick Mountain and Homer Bailey. Luis Arraez was a flash in the pan one year wonder. Buxton is unable to stay on the field for more than 80 games. Obviously all of those things aren't going to happen, but its not too much of stretch to believe half of them will. Basically everything went right for the Twins last season - chances are lightning doesn't strike twice.
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Donaldson is good. He makes the Twins better in 2020. He is also 34 years old, and the Twins will most likely be paying him $29M in 2023 in his age 37 season. The backend of this deal is going to hurt them - likely quite a bit.
Its a strange allocation of resources for the Twins, but frankly, at this juncture in the offseason he was the guy that made the most sense to the spend the money on. There is no SP left worth paying. The Twins allowing it to get to this point is what is strange.
This may be a bit of a kick in the balls to the Sox 2020 ALC chances, but this offseason was never about building a WS contender for 2020. Its about the beginning of a 6-7 year window, and this Donaldson move really does very little to negatively impact the White Sox long term outlook. And if Donaldson is unable to stay healthy the next two seasons - the only two in which you can reasonably expect him to earn his money - this deal is really going to hurt the Twins.
Twins fan are excited. And they should be. Their previous forays into expensive free agents have pretty much all failed. The most expensive position player free agent in franchise history prior to Donaldson was a 3/$24M deal to Jason fuckin' Castro. So of course they're going to be excited. This move also improves their IF defense quite a bit by getting Sano off 3B, but I remain unconvinced that Donaldson is anything more than an average 3B at this point, though is 2019 defensive metrics were fairly strong.
Everything will be OK Sox fans. Twins weren't just going to standby and make no moves in what is the tailend of their window. 85 wins isn't going to win this division, so let's go out and get 90 wins and see where the chips fall.
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44 minutes ago, Orlando said:
Moncada = Donaldson
Anderson > Polanco
Madrigal/Leury < Arraez
Abreu = Sano
Grandal > Garver
Robert > Buxton
Eloy > Rosario
Encarnacion < Cruz
Mazara< Kepler
Give me Moncada over Donaldson and Madrigal over Arraez.
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If he can stay healthy, this definitely hurts for 2020. But paying 35-37 YO Donaldson over $20M could be ugly.
As others have said, let’s battle. Twins will score a lot of runs, but they’ll give up a lot too.
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Obdel Herrera DFA'd. Quite a fall for that guy. With his contract, he'll definitely clear waivers and get released. Domestic violence charges are going to make it tough for other teams to give him a chance, but perhaps at the MLB minimum someone will roll the dic.e
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16 minutes ago, Dominikk85 said:
I dont think so, the ban is specifically for 2020
Yah, looks like one of the early articles I read had bad info. My bad for passing it along.
Good for Hinch. He should be able to get another job. The way it sounded early on, it was effectively a lifetime ban. Who is going to hire a guy just to have him be suspended for a year? With him seemingly allowing this to go on, but not the mastermind behind it, that seems fair.
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11 minutes ago, cjgalloway said:
Not designating Zavala yet, after all these moves, really indicates to me that they're really trying to move in a trade one of the catchers.. Otherwise, I don't get why he is still around.
Probably more likely that they don't really view Mercedes, and to a lesser extent Collins, anything more than emergency/occasional catchers at the MLB level. Without those two, its Zavala is really the only true catcher in AAA, tho he's certainly not great with the glove either.
But I agree - I thought Zavala would be gone before Covey.
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4 minutes ago, Balta1701 said:
Because in 2019 the White Sox didn't have a goal of winning games and so every dollar spent in 2019 was a dollar that could potentially be better saved for 2020. In 2020 the white sox have a goal of winning games so dollars in 2020 can potentially be far more valuable spending.
Right.
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9 minutes ago, Dick Allen said:
The point being the $5.4 million isn't a big deal, the Sox have a lot of money vs. the $2 million savings of McCann and Smith. If money was a factor last year, why wouldn't it be this?
Because the White Sox are trying to win this year and weren't last year? This isn't that complicated. I agree $5.4M isn't alot of money for a team trying to win baseball games, which is why I think trading him for nothing makes no sense.
I don't care to go back and look at my comments from over a year ago about McCann, but I would assume my issues at the time of signing had more to do with rolling the dice on a vet without much mlb success and with only 2 years fof control instead of just giving younger guys like Collins and Zavala opportunities in what was certainly going to be a lost season. I highly doubt my main criticism was the incremental cost difference between $2.5M and mlb minimum as you're seemingly suggesting.
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2 minutes ago, Dick Allen said:
Kind of strange from a guy who pointed to McCann's $2.5 million salary last year and thought because of that, Kevan Smith was the better choice.
I don't think the Sox spent all the money they spent on Grandal to have him not catch as much as possible.
Lol, really? Pointing out comments from over a year ago that were made shortly after McCann got non-tendered from one of the worst teams in baseball is pretty comical stuff. No, I was not a huge fan of McCann signing last year. But the guy was pretty dang good in 2020 and obviously the calculus has changed. Or is changing one's opinion based on the collection of additional information not allowed in the world of Dick Allen?
No shit the Sox want Grandal to catch as much as possible. That doesn't mean you just trade McCann for scraps (which is likely all they'd get) because he doesn't appear to have a major role at the moment.
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1 minute ago, Dick Allen said:
I would rather allocate McCann's salary towards a reliever. Probably helps the team more than a seldom used catcher.
I would rather spend the $6M on Cishek AND keep McCann. The Sox aren't hurting for $, and don't need to punt McCann and his $5.4M salary to add another reliever.
If they can trade McCann for a solid reliever, I won't complain. But I think that move would've been done if it was possible.
I'd also rather have a real backup catcher. Collins may be a useful "gadgety" catcher, but I certainly don't want him as the only person capable of catching besides Grandal. JMO, but also appears to be the Sox.
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Just now, tray said:
The White Sox have, from time to time made trades or moves that take a players interests into account at least to some degree, including trading them to a location that they prefer or where they might get a better shot. Nothing wrong with that, IMO.
There is a lot wrong with that with respect to Collins specifically.
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3 minutes ago, tray said:
Collins and McCann are both worth more to the Sox than they are in trade.
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Agree, but that wasn't my point.
So trading him (or McCann) for scraps accomplishes what exactly for the White Sox?
Collins will get chances in 2020. He will be the first guy up if about 20% of the roster gets IL'd (Grandal, Mccann, Abreu, EE). Sox could move McCann mid season as well. No need to just punt Collins because he doesn't have an OD 2020 roster spot. What you're advocating for isn't good business.
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1 minute ago, tray said:
How is he close to free agency?
He meant closer. As in, any time he spends on the MLB roster is that much time closer to FA.
All of this is moot anyway. Collins is going to be in AAA. He'll get some chances with the Sox in 2020, but they're not going to give McCann away just so they can downgrade the major league team. Collins and McCann are both worth more to the Sox than they are in trade. Therefore, Collins will be in AAA.
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21 minutes ago, tray said:
If the Sox do not trade McCann, Collins, should not be on the 26 man roster for a couple of reasons. Look at it with Collins interests rather than the interests of the White Sox to keep him as a prospect or a seldom used back-up catcher treading on thin ice on a contending team.
Collins agent and the White Sox would better serve Collins aspirations to become a starting catcher in the majors by seeking a trade with a team where he is not blocked by a catcher like Grandal making 17 Million a year over the next 4 years. If the Sox trade McCann and rely on Collins to start 40 games, that might not turn (out) as well as the Collins fans here might think it will. Or they will pine that playing in 40 games in 2020 was a small sample size and therefore, he should be allowed to start half the games or more in 2021 before the Sox give up on him.
The guy is 25 years old in February and has no shot to start with the White Sox for several years. Signing Grandal should have made it clear that the Sox have no confidence (in Collins) as a a starting catcher. Trade the poor guy and let him have a decent shot somewhere else.
"Trading the poor guy and let him have a decent shot somewher else" is a terrible way to run a baseball organization.
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4 minutes ago, BackDoorBreach said:
We definitely have some arms down there I think will be solid, just not sure when that will be.
Herrera, Cordero, Marshall, Fry, and Colome give me anxiety for a bunch of different reasons.
I don't think there is a bullpen in baseball that is filled with guys that don't give their fans anxiety. Sox pen isn't a major plus, but it should be average with upside.
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2 minutes ago, BackDoorBreach said:
Kopech will take Gonzalez out of the rotation whenever his service time has been sufficiently manipulated.
This is assuming Cease and Lopez don't implode.
Edit: And yeah I'm pretty bearish on the pen. I wanted 1 more high leverage arm.
At least we don't project to have any complete gas cans in the pen (assuming Herrera can bounce back some). With plenty of interesting arms in the upper minors in Hamilton, Burdi, Johnson, Heuer, Ruiz and Foster as back stops - not to mention SP like Dunning, Lambert, Steiver, Rodon, Lopez and Gonzalez who could be used in relief roles to ease into action or due to change of roles.
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Opening Day
Rotation: Giolito, Keuchel, Cease, Gonzalez, Lopez
Pen: Colome, Bummer, Cishek, Fry, Herrera, Marshall, Cordero, Fulmer
June 1
Rotation: Giolito, Keuchel, Kopech, Cease, Lopez
Pen: Colome, Bummer, Cishek, Fry, Herrera, Cordero, Gonzalez, Hamilton
August 1
Rotation: Giolito, Keuchel, Kopech, Cease, Lopez, Rodon
Pen: Colome, Bummer, Cishek, Fry, Herrera, Cordero, Hamilton, Burdi
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8 minutes ago, MeanJoeCrede said:
The fact that Dylan Covey went from being on the 25 man roster and was counted on to contribute last season to no longer being on our 40 man roster speaks volumes about how this offseason has gone.
The Sox have basically trimmed ALLLLLLLLL of the 40 man fat and filler in a matter of 3 months. Its truly impressive.
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2 minutes ago, flavum said:
Korea, Samsung Lions
Thanks!
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Just now, flavum said:
Yeah, I’m not sure the exact rules on that. I guess they could have just given him a release to begin with. We’ll see what happens, but it just feels like he’s gotta get a fresh start someplace else.
Just refreshed my memory on those rules, and yah, he can't elect free agency.
You need either 3+ years of MLB service time (he has 2 and change) or been outrighted previously, which he hasn't been. So chances are if Covey clears waivers, he'll be in Charlotte. Which is fine.
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2 minutes ago, Balta1701 said:
For at least a portion of the season, it's going to be Gio Gonzalez. If something goes wrong in April, you can use "Mr. Rainout" or call up Kopech for a start during a double header. Later in the season, Rodon could fill that role. Other guys like Lambert and Dunning are lower but could be options at some point also.
Flores, Kubat and (ugh) Detwiler should all be in the AAA rotation as well and could take a spot start if need be (hopefully there won't be a need). Flores on 40 man so probably top of the list with Dunning and Lambert missing the first half, at least.
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27 minutes ago, bmags said:
There you go, that's good. If sox view him that way that's great. Seeing our left side, I wouldn't mind them returning Saladino as a guy to keep in Charlotte. Not blocking anyone of interest there.
Pretty sure I saw Saladino signed in a Japan a couple weeks ago.
Twins Sign Donaldson
in Pale Hose Talk
Posted
They tried last offseason. He wasn't interested.