ChiSox59

QUOTE (steveno89 @ Dec 15, 2016 -> 11:01 AM) The lesson we have learned from trades is that teams are largely unwilling to part with players that impact their immediate mlb rosters (Bregman, Turner, Swanson, Benintendi, etc.), but are willing to part with prospects that are not mlb ready right now (Moncada, Kopech, Giolito, Lopez, Dunning, Basabe, Diaz). It makes sense because subtracting a bat from the mlb roster creates another hole to fill. Rodgers should very much be on the table in trade talks though Moncada, Giolito, and Lopez are about as close to MLB ready as prospects get. Moncada could use a couple months in AAA, and they will all get it, but any of these guys could easily open in the bigs, and likely would on most MLB rosters.

QUOTE (steveno89 @ Dec 15, 2016 -> 10:49 AM) Rockies won't be parting with Dahl. He is under team control until after 2022 and will be a corner OF fixture for them Rodgers I could see them parting with as he is unlikely to make the big league until halfway through 2018 at the earliest. He'll likely start the season at high A Lancaster and spend the majority of the season there, possibly getting called up to AA later in the season. That makes him more expendable because he won't impact the mlb roster anytime soon, plus their infield is loaded with talent. Hah, ok. Heard the same thing about Moncada. The Rockies can probably make a deal without including Dahl, but when you're the Rockies, and you have the chance to acquire a TOR pitcher locked up 4 years at what you pay a #5 these days, no one is off limits.

QUOTE (steveno89 @ Dec 15, 2016 -> 10:10 AM) Dahl is their starting left fielder in 2017, he is not going to be traded A deal would be centered around Rodgers who is several years away I don't think the Rox want to trade Dahl, but they're idiots if they plan to play Desmond at 1B. And in order for him to go to the OF, they need to trade either Dahl, Gonzalez or Blackmon. And they badly need pitching. I can guarantee you Hahn is asking for Dahl.

QUOTE (soxfan2014 @ Dec 15, 2016 -> 10:02 AM) Yeah while I'm confident they want to rebuild, what if the guys that are here now actually play good enough to compete? Guys who are already here but expected to be dealt plus whoever they add for sign-and-flip candidates on one year deals? And then the guys we call up make an immediate impact? Do they just abandon the rebuild? I don't think they'll abandon the rebuild. I don't think the Sox are going to be disappointed if they somehow compete this year. You can rebuild without losing 100 games. The Sox went from around the 25th best farm to around the 5th best farm in 24 hours. They've already completely changed the complexion of this roster moving forward.

QUOTE (steveno89 @ Dec 15, 2016 -> 09:49 AM) I am not feeling the McMahon love at all Striking out at a 30% rate in AA and only batting .242 is very concerning to me. Major league pitchers tend to eat high strikeout players alive. He is blocked by Arenado, but I'm not sure he is the answer in a trade. This is a make or break season for him. But if he is the fourth piece after Dahl, Rodgers, and Murphy - sign me up.

I pretty much said this same thing in a lot less words yesterday. I wouldn't be surprised at all to see the Sox patchwork this thing and see if they can stay around .500 until the young guns are ready in June. Generally speaking, I don't think its the best plan, but its a super White Sox thing to do. And plus, I am OK with it if they don't find the trade offers on Q, Abreu, Frazier, Robertson, Melky, Lawrie to their liking. Can always trade the guys with 1 year left in June/July to the highest bidder, and its not like any of those guys have tremendous value now. I don't see Q's value going anywhere in the next year, and if Abreu hits like he did in the 2nd half last year, his value will probably go up. Trading Melky for someone's 15th best prospect that will never make the majors does nothing for me, personally. I don't see the Sox splurging for Bautista - no way they give up the pick. Hamilton on a minor league deal would be interesting, but I think the Rangers will bring him back on a minors pact. I think Rasmus in CF, and either Alvarez or Morneau at DH is a real possibility. I am intrigued by Revere if we can't get Rasmus, but I'd really like to see if we can get anything out of Liriano in RF this year. Maybe Hank Conger at C. Another reclamation project SP. That team probably isn't .500 on June 1, but it's probably not that far away either. The lineup isn't all bad. A big first half from Q, Rodon continuing his development, Gonzo being Gonzo, and if Shields isn't a complete pumpkin, that team could be within a few games of .500.

QUOTE (raBBit @ Dec 14, 2016 -> 04:10 PM) If Shuck plays any games in Chicago this year when the Sox have Tilson/May/Engel I will be livid. There is negative value in playing that guy. Someone told me he was a Robin guy last year in ST. Could be a Renteria guy too, but we need young players out there even if it's just to confirm they're not of MLB quality. Yah, I kind of hope Engel is the guy they play in CF if Tilson isn't ready yet.

Castillo signs with the O's. 1 year / $6M, with a $7M player option for year 2. Not a bad deal. Even though he's pretty bad defensively, I would have loved that deal.

I love how so many posters here act like the Cubs are the only team to properly execute a rebuild in the history of the game. Its comical. I've never lived in Chicago, so I didn't grow up caring much for the Cubs one way or the other, but the obsession some Sox fans seem to have with what the Cubs has done is quite obvious.

QUOTE (Rowand44 @ Dec 14, 2016 -> 01:10 PM) I'm someone who never cares about "rushing" prospects as I usually feel it's better for development but there's absolutely no reason to start either of them in the majors. No reason to use up service time right now. Yep. Someone had a nice post somewhere on here, Moncada, Giolito, Lopez and need to be in the minors until sometime in June to get the extra year. I expect they'll be up sometime after that, if they're performing in AAA.

QUOTE (Jenksy Cat @ Dec 14, 2016 -> 01:07 PM) Yes, lose all the games. I don't understand anyone who argues against that. If you're nowhere near a wild card, lose all of em. I argue with Cubs fan friends about it and ask: would you rather have had 4 more wins in 2012 or Kris Bryant? Maybe because the season hasn't even started yet and we have no idea what this team will look like. Rooting for this team to win 55 games means guys like Rodon and Anderson - and later in the year Moncada, Fulmer, Giolito and Lopez - did not develop like we had hoped. Trust me, if the Sox continue to trade off pieces, they'll be lucky to win 70 games - but we also need our young players to develop. If some of these guys come up and produce well and cause hte Sox to finish with the 7th worst record instead of the 3rd - so what.

QUOTE (JLarucci23 @ Dec 14, 2016 -> 01:03 PM) Plus this signing hopefully will keep Giolitto in AAA and we won't have to force him up. Hahn has already said that Giolito and Lopez will start in AAA.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Dec 14, 2016 -> 11:54 AM) Bob Nightengale ‏@BNightengale 9m9 minutes ago The #WhiteSox sign Derek Holland to 1-year, $6 million contract with $1 million in performance bonuses. @scottmerkin 1st to say sides close So just $1M in performance bounses, not $2M.

QUOTE (soxfan2014 @ Dec 14, 2016 -> 11:45 AM) $8 million isn't a lot to this team. Plus, if he reaches the $8 million, he would probably be considered a steal knowing that he reached whatever the incentives are. I mean, I am not bad about it, just seems a bit high. I am guessing the guaranteed amount is closer to $4-$5M, which seems about right.

QUOTE (ChiSox59 @ Dec 14, 2016 -> 11:43 AM) Evan Grant reports that Holland can earn up to $8MM if he maxes out his incentives. Hopefully the incentives are strict, as $8M seems a bit rich. Hope the guarantee is closer to half that.

QUOTE (ChiSox59 @ Dec 14, 2016 -> 11:07 AM) Interested to see what they're paying him. Let's make some guesses. I will go 1 year / $3.75M, with a $5M club option ($250k buyout) for 2018. Evan Grant reports that Holland can earn up to $8MM if he maxes out his incentives.

Interested to see what they're paying him. Let's make some guesses. I will go 1 year / $3.75M, with a $5M club option ($250k buyout) for 2018.

QUOTE (soxfan2014 @ Dec 14, 2016 -> 10:51 AM) Yeah I understand what you're saying, but a lot of people seem to just want them to trade to make a trade and take best offer (which they may end up having to do, but don't have to now). Exactly. That is the last thing the Sox need to be doing right now.

QUOTE (steveno89 @ Dec 14, 2016 -> 10:48 AM) Obviously if the trade offers are not good we keep them and try to flip them at the deadline I think there will be enough demand for Quintana and Robertson to get moved this offseason though Frazier, Melky, Abreu, Jones, Gonzalez are more likely to start the season on the Sox roster We're on the same page. I just wouldn't be shocked to see Q stick around. Musgrove/Martes/Tucker doesn't really change that for me. I think you can get a comparable deal to that next December. Robertson...we shall see. I always tend to look at things on the positive side, but I just don't think the current team with Q on it is a bottom 1/4 of the league team. Especially with some patchwork signings I assume they'll make - like Alvarez and Rasmus.

QUOTE (steveno89 @ Dec 14, 2016 -> 10:27 AM) Of course, as currently constructed we are not THAT bad But, we all know that guys like Quintana/Robertson/FRazier/etc are more likely than not going to be moved for prospects Totally agreed. But I don't think we can dismiss what the last 20 years have told us about this organization. Plus, if you can't get anything meaningful for Frazier, Melky, Lawrie - why move them? I'd rather see if the offers are better in June/July, than take some backend top 20 prospect from a farm that will likely never make the majors. What good does that do? Saves Jerry some $, that is about it.

QUOTE (steveno89 @ Dec 14, 2016 -> 10:19 AM) The lineup won't be the reason we are awful, the starting rotation minus Quintana and bullpen minus Robertson is why we will be awful For the third time, in my scenario, I said Quintana and Robertson DON'T get moved. That is what "as currently constructed" means. Last I checked, those dudes are still cashing checks from the Chicago White Sox.

I never root for my teams to lose.

QUOTE (steveno89 @ Dec 14, 2016 -> 10:12 AM) We had the 5th worst record in the American League in 2016 If we trade Quintana + others we can pencil ourselves in for 60-65 wins at best and we would be one of the worst teams in baseball A rotation of Rodon/Gonzalez/Shields/Holland/Covey/Beck/Crappy FA signing = 60 wins My comment was "as currently constructed", meaning no further meaningful subtractions (Q, Frazier, Melky, Abreu, Robertson, etc.).

QUOTE (steveno89 @ Dec 14, 2016 -> 10:00 AM) How are we built to play .500 baseball? We will be lucky to win 65 or 70 games in 2017 To be fair, I said COULD play .500 ball. Sox won 78 games last year and pretty much everyone besides Sale, Eaton, Q and Melky underperformed. A lineup of: Anderson - SS Melky - LF Abreu - 1B Frazier - 3B Alvarez / Morneau - DH Lawrie - 2B Rasmus - CF Liriano / Avi - RF Narvaez / Some FA - C I think Alvarez / Morneau could be had pretty cheap. Could probably get Rasmus on a one year deal around $8-$10M. That lineup isn't great, but its also not awful. You have Moncada who could come up a take Lawrie's spot when he gets hurt. Look, I don't think that team will compete, but its also not completely crazy to think that team could be within 5 games of .500 by mid June. Have Giolito, Lopez and Fulmer in AAA waiting for a shot in the rotation. I fully expect (and hope) to the Sox to make further moves to make this all moot, but right now, the core of .500ish team is still there. Let's not forget that the Sox have tried to win for pretty much 2 decades straight. It wouldn't surprise me at all to see a lineup like this on opening day. You can still trade guys like Frazier, Melky, Lawrie, Robertson mid-season, and guys like Q and Abreu next offseason. If you're not getting something useful for the impending FAs now, may as well hold and see what happens.

I like it. I have always been a fan of Holland. He was fun to watch pitch a few years back. Don't love that he is such a flyball pitcher, but its a solid move for the backend of the rotation. I hate to say it because I know I will get crucified - but the Sox are currently constructed could still play .500 ball. Could is the key word. I expect further moves, but right now the lineup and rotation isn't awful. Add a decent DH like Alvarez or Morneau and the team could be interesting without further subtractions.