ChiSox59

I pretty much said this same thing in a lot less words yesterday. I wouldn't be surprised at all to see the Sox patchwork this thing and see if they can stay around .500 until the young guns are ready in June. Generally speaking, I don't think its the best plan, but its a super White Sox thing to do. And plus, I am OK with it if they don't find the trade offers on Q, Abreu, Frazier, Robertson, Melky, Lawrie to their liking. Can always trade the guys with 1 year left in June/July to the highest bidder, and its not like any of those guys have tremendous value now. I don't see Q's value going anywhere in the next year, and if Abreu hits like he did in the 2nd half last year, his value will probably go up. Trading Melky for someone's 15th best prospect that will never make the majors does nothing for me, personally. I don't see the Sox splurging for Bautista - no way they give up the pick. Hamilton on a minor league deal would be interesting, but I think the Rangers will bring him back on a minors pact. I think Rasmus in CF, and either Alvarez or Morneau at DH is a real possibility. I am intrigued by Revere if we can't get Rasmus, but I'd really like to see if we can get anything out of Liriano in RF this year. Maybe Hank Conger at C. Another reclamation project SP. That team probably isn't .500 on June 1, but it's probably not that far away either. The lineup isn't all bad. A big first half from Q, Rodon continuing his development, Gonzo being Gonzo, and if Shields isn't a complete pumpkin, that team could be within a few games of .500.

QUOTE (raBBit @ Dec 14, 2016 -> 04:10 PM) If Shuck plays any games in Chicago this year when the Sox have Tilson/May/Engel I will be livid. There is negative value in playing that guy. Someone told me he was a Robin guy last year in ST. Could be a Renteria guy too, but we need young players out there even if it's just to confirm they're not of MLB quality. Yah, I kind of hope Engel is the guy they play in CF if Tilson isn't ready yet.

Castillo signs with the O's. 1 year / $6M, with a $7M player option for year 2. Not a bad deal. Even though he's pretty bad defensively, I would have loved that deal.

I love how so many posters here act like the Cubs are the only team to properly execute a rebuild in the history of the game. Its comical. I've never lived in Chicago, so I didn't grow up caring much for the Cubs one way or the other, but the obsession some Sox fans seem to have with what the Cubs has done is quite obvious.

QUOTE (Rowand44 @ Dec 14, 2016 -> 01:10 PM) I'm someone who never cares about "rushing" prospects as I usually feel it's better for development but there's absolutely no reason to start either of them in the majors. No reason to use up service time right now. Yep. Someone had a nice post somewhere on here, Moncada, Giolito, Lopez and need to be in the minors until sometime in June to get the extra year. I expect they'll be up sometime after that, if they're performing in AAA.

QUOTE (Jenksy Cat @ Dec 14, 2016 -> 01:07 PM) Yes, lose all the games. I don't understand anyone who argues against that. If you're nowhere near a wild card, lose all of em. I argue with Cubs fan friends about it and ask: would you rather have had 4 more wins in 2012 or Kris Bryant? Maybe because the season hasn't even started yet and we have no idea what this team will look like. Rooting for this team to win 55 games means guys like Rodon and Anderson - and later in the year Moncada, Fulmer, Giolito and Lopez - did not develop like we had hoped. Trust me, if the Sox continue to trade off pieces, they'll be lucky to win 70 games - but we also need our young players to develop. If some of these guys come up and produce well and cause hte Sox to finish with the 7th worst record instead of the 3rd - so what.

QUOTE (JLarucci23 @ Dec 14, 2016 -> 01:03 PM) Plus this signing hopefully will keep Giolitto in AAA and we won't have to force him up. Hahn has already said that Giolito and Lopez will start in AAA.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Dec 14, 2016 -> 11:54 AM) Bob Nightengale ‏@BNightengale 9m9 minutes ago The #WhiteSox sign Derek Holland to 1-year, $6 million contract with $1 million in performance bonuses. @scottmerkin 1st to say sides close So just $1M in performance bounses, not $2M.

QUOTE (soxfan2014 @ Dec 14, 2016 -> 11:45 AM) $8 million isn't a lot to this team. Plus, if he reaches the $8 million, he would probably be considered a steal knowing that he reached whatever the incentives are. I mean, I am not bad about it, just seems a bit high. I am guessing the guaranteed amount is closer to $4-$5M, which seems about right.

QUOTE (ChiSox59 @ Dec 14, 2016 -> 11:43 AM) Evan Grant reports that Holland can earn up to $8MM if he maxes out his incentives. Hopefully the incentives are strict, as $8M seems a bit rich. Hope the guarantee is closer to half that.

QUOTE (ChiSox59 @ Dec 14, 2016 -> 11:07 AM) Interested to see what they're paying him. Let's make some guesses. I will go 1 year / $3.75M, with a $5M club option ($250k buyout) for 2018. Evan Grant reports that Holland can earn up to $8MM if he maxes out his incentives.

Interested to see what they're paying him. Let's make some guesses. I will go 1 year / $3.75M, with a $5M club option ($250k buyout) for 2018.

QUOTE (soxfan2014 @ Dec 14, 2016 -> 10:51 AM) Yeah I understand what you're saying, but a lot of people seem to just want them to trade to make a trade and take best offer (which they may end up having to do, but don't have to now). Exactly. That is the last thing the Sox need to be doing right now.

QUOTE (steveno89 @ Dec 14, 2016 -> 10:48 AM) Obviously if the trade offers are not good we keep them and try to flip them at the deadline I think there will be enough demand for Quintana and Robertson to get moved this offseason though Frazier, Melky, Abreu, Jones, Gonzalez are more likely to start the season on the Sox roster We're on the same page. I just wouldn't be shocked to see Q stick around. Musgrove/Martes/Tucker doesn't really change that for me. I think you can get a comparable deal to that next December. Robertson...we shall see. I always tend to look at things on the positive side, but I just don't think the current team with Q on it is a bottom 1/4 of the league team. Especially with some patchwork signings I assume they'll make - like Alvarez and Rasmus.

QUOTE (steveno89 @ Dec 14, 2016 -> 10:27 AM) Of course, as currently constructed we are not THAT bad But, we all know that guys like Quintana/Robertson/FRazier/etc are more likely than not going to be moved for prospects Totally agreed. But I don't think we can dismiss what the last 20 years have told us about this organization. Plus, if you can't get anything meaningful for Frazier, Melky, Lawrie - why move them? I'd rather see if the offers are better in June/July, than take some backend top 20 prospect from a farm that will likely never make the majors. What good does that do? Saves Jerry some $, that is about it.

QUOTE (steveno89 @ Dec 14, 2016 -> 10:19 AM) The lineup won't be the reason we are awful, the starting rotation minus Quintana and bullpen minus Robertson is why we will be awful For the third time, in my scenario, I said Quintana and Robertson DON'T get moved. That is what "as currently constructed" means. Last I checked, those dudes are still cashing checks from the Chicago White Sox.

I never root for my teams to lose.

QUOTE (steveno89 @ Dec 14, 2016 -> 10:12 AM) We had the 5th worst record in the American League in 2016 If we trade Quintana + others we can pencil ourselves in for 60-65 wins at best and we would be one of the worst teams in baseball A rotation of Rodon/Gonzalez/Shields/Holland/Covey/Beck/Crappy FA signing = 60 wins My comment was "as currently constructed", meaning no further meaningful subtractions (Q, Frazier, Melky, Abreu, Robertson, etc.).

QUOTE (steveno89 @ Dec 14, 2016 -> 10:00 AM) How are we built to play .500 baseball? We will be lucky to win 65 or 70 games in 2017 To be fair, I said COULD play .500 ball. Sox won 78 games last year and pretty much everyone besides Sale, Eaton, Q and Melky underperformed. A lineup of: Anderson - SS Melky - LF Abreu - 1B Frazier - 3B Alvarez / Morneau - DH Lawrie - 2B Rasmus - CF Liriano / Avi - RF Narvaez / Some FA - C I think Alvarez / Morneau could be had pretty cheap. Could probably get Rasmus on a one year deal around $8-$10M. That lineup isn't great, but its also not awful. You have Moncada who could come up a take Lawrie's spot when he gets hurt. Look, I don't think that team will compete, but its also not completely crazy to think that team could be within 5 games of .500 by mid June. Have Giolito, Lopez and Fulmer in AAA waiting for a shot in the rotation. I fully expect (and hope) to the Sox to make further moves to make this all moot, but right now, the core of .500ish team is still there. Let's not forget that the Sox have tried to win for pretty much 2 decades straight. It wouldn't surprise me at all to see a lineup like this on opening day. You can still trade guys like Frazier, Melky, Lawrie, Robertson mid-season, and guys like Q and Abreu next offseason. If you're not getting something useful for the impending FAs now, may as well hold and see what happens.

I like it. I have always been a fan of Holland. He was fun to watch pitch a few years back. Don't love that he is such a flyball pitcher, but its a solid move for the backend of the rotation. I hate to say it because I know I will get crucified - but the Sox are currently constructed could still play .500 ball. Could is the key word. I expect further moves, but right now the lineup and rotation isn't awful. Add a decent DH like Alvarez or Morneau and the team could be interesting without further subtractions.

QUOTE (ChiSox59 @ Dec 14, 2016 -> 09:38 AM) How so? Answered my own question: Sox to Sign Holland

QUOTE (flavum @ Dec 14, 2016 -> 09:37 AM) Looks like a done deal. Build up the value and trade him. Best case scenario. How so?

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Dec 14, 2016 -> 09:33 AM) If Gammons quote is accurate and the Sox were willing to trade for a Tucker/Martes/Musgrove package, you have to think eventually something will get done with Houston. They are 100% analytics, so Q, who probably is the Ben Zobrist of pitching sabermetrically, is one of the best pitchers in baseball to them, signed cheaply for 4 years with a couple of outs in case something horrible happens. I think there will be a 4 or 5 prospect trade for him myself. All of the other dancing IMO is just for show. I'd be a little surprised if the Sox traded Quintana for a three player package including 2 pitchers at this point.

QUOTE (flavum @ Dec 13, 2016 -> 05:28 PM) That's what I think too. For him, lower the expectations, but just make a deal. Why? There is literally no good reason to just trade him. Get a good return that you like, or hold onto him and see if he regained some value in the first few months of the season.

Hope he makes it. Johnny is a good dude.