ChiSox59

QUOTE (iamshack @ Nov 7, 2016 -> 10:20 AM) This is all speculation. As is assuming Benentendi and Moncada were available in July.

QUOTE (iamshack @ Nov 7, 2016 -> 11:19 AM) No they don't, because they know it does no good for the Sox to keep them. You can play this waiting game once or twice, but eventually, you've got to move them, and the buyers know it. And while there isn't anything comparable on the FA market, there certainly are other quality pitchers that will be made available for prospect packages. We don't know who they are today, but they will be made available. As for the spoiling comment, I mean in terms of their control by the White Sox. The motivation by another team is to acquire them, win with them, and then potentially extend them. But actually WINNING SOMETHING is the motivation to trade a ton of talent for them. We're talking 3 and 4 years of control here. As Dick said earlier, there is a point where their value is so high that no one is going to meet the price. I think we're getting closer to the point where a trade may be possible, but we still may not be there quite yet. That doesn't mean the Sox basically punt a year of control for either of these guys to get a package you could get in a year. In the history of baseball, an ace has never been traded with 3 years of control left who is paid about 25% of his AAV on the FA market. Ever! Sure, if the Sox hold Sale for 3 more years of playoff-less baseball and then let him leave via FA, they've screwed up. But we have a long time to go until then. The Sox still hold the cards.

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Nov 7, 2016 -> 10:56 AM) It's pretty much an unprecedented trade to give up an ace signed cheaply for 3 more years. I really don't know if teams would be able to pay that much more than they would if he had 2 years left on his deal, which seems to be when guys get dealt now, and usually at a higher payroll number than Sale requires. To me there is a limit on what teams can and will give up. Yes, he might be less valuable next year, but that doesn't necessarlly mean the package to acquire him will be less. This too.

QUOTE (Eminor3rd @ Nov 7, 2016 -> 10:45 AM) It isn't that simple, though. You have to consider injury risk, the depreciation of value as each year goes away, and then you also have to look ahead a bit at your own chances to compete and the market's opportunities to sell. I agree that now is the right time to strike, but I don't want to the Sox to settle for a so-so package just because. Sale, and Quintana will still have a boatload of trade value next summer, and next offseason.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Nov 7, 2016 -> 09:52 AM) Missing on this deal could literally cost the team a decade. Yes, they need an overpay. They need a grand slam home run of a deal. Agreed. Or you hold. The Sox continue to hold the cards. Remember: Chris Sale - 3 years; Jose Quintana - 4 years.

QUOTE (SonofaRoache @ Nov 7, 2016 -> 09:43 AM) Well that's a point I've been making. I don't trust our FO moving in any direction. We've tried to rebuild and get younger but we suck at drafting players and trading for young ones. Maybe if we did a better job identifying pieces that fit and would work we'd be okay. We've blown way to many draft picks. First round picks since 2005 Lance Broadway Kyle McCulloch Aaron Poreda Gordan Beckham Jared Mitchell Josh Phegley Chris Sale Keenyn Walker Courtney Hawkins Keon Barnum Tim Anderson Carlos Rodon Carson Fulmer A few years prior Gio Gonzalez Tyler Lumsden Josh Fields Brian Anderson Royce Ring Kris Honel Folks this is why we suck. We hit on one, maybe 2 pitchers so far and Gio brought value in a trade. We screwed up with all but one position player thus far and he may just be mediocre. If your FO can't draft or find solid players to trade and sign into the organization you are screwed whether you rebuild or retool. Starting with Chris Sale, the Sox have improved immensely with drafting, including their first round picks. Walker was taken 47th overall, and Barnum 48th, which were sandwich round picks and not first rounders in the traditional sense. Missing picks in the back end of the top 50 isn't exactly something unique to the White Sox.

QUOTE (TheFutureIsNear @ Nov 5, 2016 -> 05:05 PM) My question is does anybody think trading Q + a smart signing or 2 of midtier free agents would get us into legit playoff contention? Or is it unrealistic to think a package of young players would lead to instant success? Like if we got Benintendi, Travis Shaw, and Eduardo Rodriguez (+a couple top prospects) + sign Jason Castro and Carlos Gomez would you feel comfortable going for a playoff run like that? Or don't sign anybody and keep trading guys off? Realistically probably not, but I think this is likely the way they go, and I'll be OK with that.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Nov 4, 2016 -> 01:27 PM) Eaton is under contract for SO LONG it only makes sense to move him if a team blows you away. There's no reason why Adam Eaton can't be a contributor on the next competitive White Sox team even after a rebuild. Eaton is where Sale was 2 years ago - if you don't screw up the next 2 years, you still have Adam Eaton under team control after a couple years of repair. Oh, I am completely with you. His comment was player he DID NOT want to move, and Eaton was not on it. Hence the "no Eaton?" comment. Adam Eaton is one of the most valuable players in the game right now. You only trade him if someone wants to give you close to what you should get for Sale. He's going no where, and I like that.

QUOTE (Eminor3rd @ Nov 4, 2016 -> 02:32 PM) Right, most of us agree that we could use Cespedes -- but if we weren't willing to pay for him when he was desperate and his market was suppressed, what makes you think we'll pay for him now that he's older and his market is about to be massively inflated? And, conceptually, we all agree we need a C, a CF, and a bullpen arm or two -- but that's kind of the point of this thread: look at that list and see if you can find those guys. Catchers Alex Avila (30) Drew Butera (34) Jason Castro (30) Hank Conger (29) A.J. Ellis (36) Ryan Hanigan (36) Nick Hundley (33) Chris Iannetta (34) Jeff Mathis (34) Dioner Navarro (33) A.J. Pierzynski (40) Wilson Ramos (29) Wilin Rosario (28) Carlos Ruiz (38) — $4.5MM club option with a $500K buyout Jarrod Saltalamacchia (32) Geovany Soto (34) Kurt Suzuki (33) Matt Wieters (31) It's Wilson Ramos, who is coming off a serious injury, and then nothing. Which means Ramos is going to make way too much. Center Fielders Peter Bourjos (30) Michael Bourn (34) Yoenis Cespedes (31) — can opt out of remaining two years, $47.5MM on current contract Coco Crisp (37) Rajai Davis (36) Ian Desmond (31) Dexter Fowler (31) Carlos Gomez (31) Tyler Holt (28) Austin Jackson (30) Jon Jay (32) Alex Presley (31) Logan Schafer (30) Drew Stubbs (32) Total jack. Cespedes isn't even a CF. Ian Desmond? Desmond is going to get a QO. He's likely out.

QUOTE (Chicago White Sox @ Nov 4, 2016 -> 12:53 PM) I'm open to trading pretty much anyone. Only "core" guys I would be hesitant on moving are Rodon, Anderson, Saladino, & Jones. If we go full rebuild, I think you keep Jones and let him be the closer for four months and then deal him at the deadline. I definitely don't expect a full rebuild though. But not Eaton?

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Nov 4, 2016 -> 01:18 PM) And I may as well point out that I agree with you and I disagree with the move in advance. Leave him back there, give him 2-3 years to work his way up, and see if you can pull together a really good hitting catcher when the team is ready to compete. He'll be in RF up in June next year to save the season because how could a competitive team be falling this far out of the wild card race when we did everything right again? I'll hate it when it happens. Let's be real, you'd hate anything the Sox do. It won't matter - take it to the bank.

QUOTE (PolishPrince34 @ Nov 4, 2016 -> 11:16 AM) 2) Trade SP Jose Quintana and Tyler Saladino to Texas Rangers for Joey Gallo 1B/3B, Jurckison Profar SS/2B, Yohander Mendes SP, and Leody Taveras OF After another early exit from the playoffs. Rangers decide to pull the trigger and go after elite talent Quintana. Quintana gives Texas probably the best #1-3 starters in all of baseball with Hamels, Darvish, and Quintana. Plus you can’t go wrong with ridiculous cheap contract. Sox in return get their future 1B in Joey Gallo. Gallo possesses 80 power and in a bandbox such as Guaranteed Rate Park/Can’t believe that’s our stadium name he should have no problem hitting 40+ homers each season. If Gallo can improve his contact rate and cut down his K% and manage to hit 230-250 avg with .350 OBP we are looking at a key piece for the future. Former #1 overall prospect Profar can play any position in the field. Finally he played a full season and showed solid production after dealing with shoulder issues the past two seasons. Profar regressed little with making hard contact and stealing bases. That should've been expected after 2 years away from the game. Hopefully having an healthy offseason to prepare for next season will bring back some of the tools that made him the best prospect in the game. Yohander Mendes SP is left hander who made a brief appearance with Rangers this past year. He throws a plus fastball and changeup that has nice tilt to it. The third pitch/slider is the key which still needs some time to develop. If the slider developes he can be instantly put in your mid-rotation. The lottery ticket is OF Leody Taveras a big international signing in 2015. Made his debut in the states and showed 5 tools across the board. Taveras has one of the highest ceilings in all of baseball. Not bad mouthing your entire post as you obviously put a ton of time into it, but this would be horrible trade for Quintana.

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Nov 3, 2016 -> 03:23 PM) I'm pretty sure he can decline the assignment, and if he can, he will. He's done with the White Sox. Indeed.

QUOTE (SoxPride18 @ Nov 3, 2016 -> 01:46 PM) Don't know why they released him. Not a big loss, but I would think he's still decent AAA depth. He's better than a lot of guys in the bullpen in AAA Agreed edit: I too had forgotten about the TJ.

QUOTE (Lip Man 1 @ Nov 3, 2016 -> 03:12 PM) Guess that'll mean he's back on the big league roster sooner or later. That's how these things work. Guys who should be outright waived keep hanging around. Mark Do you not understand the concept of depth? I often wonder. JB Shuck sucks, but it never hurts to have guys with MLB experience in the minors.

QUOTE (Chet Kincaid @ Nov 2, 2016 -> 03:08 PM) 13th overall pick. I hate that this team hasn't been able to evaluate talent. A handful of guys drafted in front of him, and handful of guys drafted within the next 10 after him were busts too. Every team has draft busts...and thankfully, the Sox haven't had many of them since Hawkins.

QUOTE (greg775 @ Oct 27, 2016 -> 11:03 PM) WISHLIST that puts us in postseason with a good manager like Renteria Cespedes (pay him whatever he wants, how bout 24 million per year for 3 years total of 72 mill) Get rid of Lawrie and play Saladino. acquire a GOOD catcher and GOOD reliever: in blockbuster trade; make it happen Mr. Hahn and we are a contender. Give up minor league talent for a good catcher and good reliever. PIECACAKE!

QUOTE (lasttriptotulsa @ Oct 27, 2016 -> 10:15 PM) Rodon over Schwarber was and still is the correct call. This. The mystique around Schwarber for Chicagoan's is comical.

180 IP of 4.80 ERA is all the Sox can ask for from Shields. If they can give him that, he's worth his deal.

QUOTE (Jose Abreu @ Oct 27, 2016 -> 09:44 AM) Please no to Jason Castro. There are better options out there. Give me Hundley or Kurt Suzuki (assuming Ramos/Wieters are gone) For realz? I'm no Jason Castro apologist, but Suzuki sucks. I know who Nick Hundly is, but I've never thought much of him. Don't know how is defense is. I guess I'd be OK with that move if we're not going for it at all, but Kurt Suzuki is bad at baseball.

Hi8s, your team would be SO bad at defensively, it'd be hard to watch. Mleky is probably a better defender than Trumbo. Actually, I am pretty certain he is...at least Melky has a cannon. If the Sox go for it, it'll be in their typical fashion. Sign a couple stop gap players at CF and C, maybe a bullpen arm or two. Maybe do that in conjunction with a Sale trade and then sign a stop gap SP as well. I'll go with Carlos Gomez and Jason Castro.

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Oct 26, 2016 -> 09:26 AM) Yes, but a year ago, Sanchez was coming with 3-4 additional prospects. No way they would trade Sanchez, Frazier and Torres now, as a package. Heck, Sanchez's asking price at the moment is more than almost anyone in the game because of his position and years of control. It would be like Sanchez AND the equivalent of Montas/Avi Garcia three years ago. That's too big of a risk for the White Sox. For Chris Sale? LOL. GMAFB.

QUOTE (Eminor3rd @ Oct 18, 2016 -> 01:34 PM) I still think the most likely path the Sox take is to try to add in the offseason for one last hurrah, and then aggressively dismantle the whole thing at the trade deadline when it fails. I think this because the 2017-18 offseason is the first one where there looks to be absolutely no argument for contention, barring the unforeseeable arrival of new breakout stars. I could see this as well. This is what I thought they'd do for a long time - but the opportunity for an overpay is there this offseason, and I think the Sox explore it.

QUOTE (Dunt @ Oct 17, 2016 -> 05:54 PM) I really don't think they rebuild. I am thinking they do end up dealing Sale, but instead of rebuilding, it's sort of a retooling. Move Sale and get JBJ, Devers, Kopech, and Rodriguez and then grab someone who can play LF and move Melky to DH. If they did something like that, next year could be really interesting: Eaton RF JBJ CF Abreu 1B Cespedes LF Melky DH Frazier 3B Saladino/Lawrie 2B Avila? C Anderson SS Quintana L Gonzalez R Rodon L Rodriguez R Fulmer R Rotation is pretty brutal, and Rodriguez throws with his left hand.

QUOTE (Lillian @ Oct 17, 2016 -> 03:36 PM) The Red Sox already have two southpaws in their rotation, with Price and Rodriguez. It would be historically unprecedented for them to have 3 left starters. The presence of the short left field "Green Monster" has always dictated that their rotation be primarily right handed. Therefore, while they have they pieces to trade for a top of the rotation starter, I don't see how they would target Sale. What am I missing here? Hands don't matter when you're tlaking about one of the best 5 pitchers in the world. Plus, I think it is pretty likely that Rodriguez would come to the Sox in a Sale deal.