ChiSox59

QUOTE (soxfan2014 @ Nov 9, 2016 -> 01:13 PM) Yeah. With that deal, you'd fill 3 holes at the MLB level: one created by dealing Sale, catcher spot, and an MLB-ready OF. Yah, except I don't have confidence that Vazquez is any good.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Nov 8, 2016 -> 09:54 PM) I don't think that is nearly as big of a deal as it used to be. The quality of facilities has gone up a lot around the country in the last generation. Maybe, but Tim himself said its made a big difference for him.

QUOTE (soxfan2014 @ Nov 9, 2016 -> 01:04 PM) I feel like it's one more prospect short. Or another prospect and one of their catchers as a toss-in. Also, I feel like I should post this here as a reference to other Red Sox prospects: http://m.mlb.com/prospects/2016?list=bos Glad to hear Cameron thinks it is short. Give me Rodriguez and Vazquez in addition and I'd probably do it.

QUOTE (ChiSoxFanMike @ Nov 8, 2016 -> 12:28 PM) There is literally no good reason to throw in Jones in a package deal to worsen his value. Agreed, unless they want to pay market value on top of whoever else they're acquiring, I hate the idea.

QUOTE (SouthSideSale @ Nov 7, 2016 -> 08:06 PM) NO. You don't trade Tim or Rodon. That's laughable. They're part of the young core. We drafted and developed both. You need home grown players. We could absolutely revamp this farm with young players by moving the likes of Sale, Q, Jones, Abreu, Frazier, Melky and Eaton. I'd keep Eaton, however, if someone gave you something too good to pass up you deal him as well. Exactly. If someone wants to bowl you over for Eaton, you take a look at it because he's a little injury prone. But he is part of the main core, and is controlled just as long a Rodon is.

QUOTE (hi8is @ Nov 7, 2016 -> 10:28 PM) The article also lists us as interested potentially in: Fowler Desmond Bautista Ramos Wieters Reddick Gomez Saunders Napoli Morales Wood Cecil Moss Jay Holliday Give me 4 of those top 7 or sell it all. Yep, beat me to it.

What I find most interesting is how many guys they have the Sox listed as potential fits. Feels like half the list, and also feels like the Sox were left off some guys that make sense just because they kept showing up.

QUOTE (SouthSideSale @ Nov 8, 2016 -> 10:59 AM) And Giles isn't good. Nate is. Exactly.

QUOTE (JUSTgottaBELIEVE @ Nov 8, 2016 -> 07:51 AM) But why pick up a $13.5M option on Buchholz if they don't plan on plugging him into the rotation? Pomeranz and Wright fill the other two spots. Rodriguez appears to be the odd man out. A deal centered around Nate Jones and Rodriguez makes sense for both sides. Nate Jones is far more valuable than Eduardo Rodriguez. See Giles, Ken.

QUOTE (maxjusttyped @ Nov 7, 2016 -> 04:15 PM) They probably would be if he wasn't one of the best pitchers in baseball on a bargain contract. This. Just clowns trying to lower his price.

QUOTE (oldsox @ Nov 7, 2016 -> 02:27 PM) No Puig? As a throw in? I guess? If the Dodgers attribute any real value value to him (and I think they do) - then no way in a Sale/Q trade.

QUOTE (SonofaRoache @ Nov 7, 2016 -> 01:01 PM) Buuuuuuut the Cardinals do other things well as an organization which keeps them competitive year in and year out. The reason the draft hurts our Sox is because we pick high and draft busts. We hit on a few pitchers but since we suck at trading, FA signings, hiring managers etc we need one thing to hang our hats on. Ugh. Generally, the Sox haven't picked that high. The Sox currently hold some of the best assets in baseball (Sale, Quintana, Eaton) and to a lesser extent (Abreu, Jones, Rodon) due to drafting (Sale, Jones, Rodon), great trades (Eaton) and great signings (Quintana and Abreu). The Sox problems have been filling out the back end of the roster over hte past 8 or so years. Don't get me wrong, the Sox got nothing out of the draft for a long time. Just seems like a weird time to get your panties all in a bunch over the draft. There is obvious improvement there over the past handful of years. Sure, there are still busts (Walker and Barnum included), but every team has those.

QUOTE (Eminor3rd @ Nov 7, 2016 -> 01:00 PM) I agree 100%. I think I wrote in some other thread that the right course is to enter the winter immediately as a seller to get a lay of the land. If an offer presents itself that seems fair (in the context of the seller's market, so more than you'd expect in an average market), the time to move is now -- because there isn't likely to be a better seller's market on the horizon. If the offers are low, we can afford to try again at the deadline. Sign some one-year veterans, hope to hit gold, and sell if you don't. We're on the same page.

QUOTE (captain54 @ Nov 7, 2016 -> 12:54 PM) You have no problem spouting your opinion and not hiding the fact that you have a pretty disparaging view of Sox fans..., disloyal, inferior to Cub fans in terms of quality of their fandom...etc .. and recently, pretty much discounted Sox history or anyone with any recollection of it pre-1985, as totally irrelevant Does it ever occur to you that some folks might take offense to that? feel insulted by that? But when challenged, you start whining and crying that you're being picked on... .. talk about thin skin, guy... sheesh.. As an outsider to this conversation, not sure what you're adding to the board with these types of comments and attacks? IMO, SS is a great poster and brings a lot to the table. Maybe some of his comments weren't all that inaccurate? Having grown up outside of Illinois, but having been a die hard Sox fan since I was a young child due to my father - I can't say I disagree with some of what you said above. Sox fans on a whole a pretty fickle, negative, and somewhat disloyal group. Obviously not saying all are....but from reading this board and WSI over the years and encountering more and more Sox fans as I get older...there is large chunk that fit that description.

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Nov 7, 2016 -> 09:45 AM) The Cardinals first round picks since 2007, and it's technically over 20 guys, collectively has the same WAR as Sale. Exactly.

Great article. Nice to hear it from an outsider.

QUOTE (NCsoxfan @ Nov 7, 2016 -> 11:40 AM) Here's an idea, and feel free to tell me if I'm a complete idiot. Sox trade: Sale & Eaton to the Cubs Sox receive: Heyward and a combo of young players. So, I would assume the Cubs would love to have Sale and are quite displeased with what they've got with Heyward. Eaton would be downright scary on the Cubs. He'd give them more of a LH presence which Heyward couldn't provide, AND they'd shed this huge contract. Well, why would the Sox want to trade their two best players (arguably) AND take on an albatross of a contract? Goal would be for it to land them more of the Cubs premium young position players. Could this then land them something like Schwarber, Baez, AND a handful of top prospects? Yah, let's trade our 2 best assets who are vastly underpaid for an extremely overpaid player..... I stopped reading after the bolded, but I guess it depends on who the "combo of young players is", but this is never going to happen.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Nov 7, 2016 -> 11:19 AM) When the Sale happens (pun intended) attendance drops will accelerate. Fans may say that they want a rebuild, but they won't support it. I know - it was tongue in cheek.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Nov 7, 2016 -> 10:57 AM) We all know the "excitement" over the rebuild will last about as long as it takes for these kids to start playing games and for them to not be superstars right away. Yah, and when the Sox average 10,000 fans. If you're for a rebuild, support the team if/when it happens.

QUOTE (Jose Abreu @ Nov 7, 2016 -> 10:41 AM) IMO, Boston, Texas, Houston, Dodgers, Cubs, Braves, Yankees are the only teams that could offer a good package for either Sale or Q. And some of those would really need to sell their farms. Twins probably could, but they never would.

QUOTE (iamshack @ Nov 7, 2016 -> 10:20 AM) This is all speculation. As is assuming Benentendi and Moncada were available in July.

QUOTE (iamshack @ Nov 7, 2016 -> 11:19 AM) No they don't, because they know it does no good for the Sox to keep them. You can play this waiting game once or twice, but eventually, you've got to move them, and the buyers know it. And while there isn't anything comparable on the FA market, there certainly are other quality pitchers that will be made available for prospect packages. We don't know who they are today, but they will be made available. As for the spoiling comment, I mean in terms of their control by the White Sox. The motivation by another team is to acquire them, win with them, and then potentially extend them. But actually WINNING SOMETHING is the motivation to trade a ton of talent for them. We're talking 3 and 4 years of control here. As Dick said earlier, there is a point where their value is so high that no one is going to meet the price. I think we're getting closer to the point where a trade may be possible, but we still may not be there quite yet. That doesn't mean the Sox basically punt a year of control for either of these guys to get a package you could get in a year. In the history of baseball, an ace has never been traded with 3 years of control left who is paid about 25% of his AAV on the FA market. Ever! Sure, if the Sox hold Sale for 3 more years of playoff-less baseball and then let him leave via FA, they've screwed up. But we have a long time to go until then. The Sox still hold the cards.

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Nov 7, 2016 -> 10:56 AM) It's pretty much an unprecedented trade to give up an ace signed cheaply for 3 more years. I really don't know if teams would be able to pay that much more than they would if he had 2 years left on his deal, which seems to be when guys get dealt now, and usually at a higher payroll number than Sale requires. To me there is a limit on what teams can and will give up. Yes, he might be less valuable next year, but that doesn't necessarlly mean the package to acquire him will be less. This too.

QUOTE (Eminor3rd @ Nov 7, 2016 -> 10:45 AM) It isn't that simple, though. You have to consider injury risk, the depreciation of value as each year goes away, and then you also have to look ahead a bit at your own chances to compete and the market's opportunities to sell. I agree that now is the right time to strike, but I don't want to the Sox to settle for a so-so package just because. Sale, and Quintana will still have a boatload of trade value next summer, and next offseason.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Nov 7, 2016 -> 09:52 AM) Missing on this deal could literally cost the team a decade. Yes, they need an overpay. They need a grand slam home run of a deal. Agreed. Or you hold. The Sox continue to hold the cards. Remember: Chris Sale - 3 years; Jose Quintana - 4 years.