ChiSox59

QUOTE (daggins @ Jul 29, 2016 -> 11:22 AM) It's wrong to think they will be as valuable next July because of three things: 1. They could get hurt (knock on wood, but it happens). 2. The trade market will be richer with expiring contracts, so there will be more supply. 3. They will have less team control left. The time to strike is absolutely now. I understand that the FO is deluded about the chance of competing next year, but that doesn't excuse doing nothing. Winners strike while the iron is hot. No one is going to pay the additional cost associated with the extra year of control right now. You'll get the same for these guys next year as you will right now, because no one is going to pay the exorbitant cost that Hahn is asking for, as he should be. May as well give contention one more shot in 2017 before half our offensive producers leave (and not punt the rest of this season too). Trading for the sake of trading is what gets GMs fired. Plus - if this board was in charge, about 75% of people wanted to trade Q for Puig at this time last year. How would that have worked out? Patience, lads. And the Sox have never said they want to do a full-rebuild. They said there clearly needs to be changes. Those are two different things.

QUOTE (soxfan2014 @ Jul 29, 2016 -> 10:27 AM) Honestly if they don't, rebuild and trade everyone. They'll seriously try to tell us they're contending by signing Jason Castro and Carlos Gomez. IMO - that actually makes a ton of sense (I have actually suggested that very thing). Blow it up next July if it doesn't work. Sale and Q will still be worth the same amount then.

QUOTE (IowaSoxFan @ Jul 28, 2016 -> 04:01 PM) I think his take is a lot more realistic than what has been proposed here. You are going to have to get at least one pitcher back in a deal, Rodriguez and Owens are the most likely given their talent level and proximity to the majors. Kopech is a big risk given his meth use and off the field antics. Lol, meth? Dude wasn't using meth in the traditional sense. Realistic to what teams are currently willing to offer? Sure. The Sox are not trading Sale for a package centered around Eduardo friggin' Rodriguez and Henry flippin' Owens. That would be a joke, Hahn should be fired on the spot, and the Sox would literally be f***ed for the next half decade. If you don't get what you want, you don't trade him. Thats likely where we are right now.

QUOTE (Hatchetman @ Jul 28, 2016 -> 03:25 PM) Greenie and I and the other malcontents are not quibbling over Tatis, per se. we are complaining about constantly trading young guys for over-the-hill bums. Which has burned the Sox how many times? Basically never. The only dude who legitimately has been good is Semien, and while Shark was a bum for the Sox, he was hardly over the hill. Generally the Sox have traded away guys that never amounted to much of anything at the big league level.

QUOTE (bmags @ Jul 28, 2016 -> 03:54 PM) I couldn't believe that was the Globe. And Nick Carfardo is actually a respected writer. Smh. How some of these dudes get these jobs is beyond me.

QUOTE (WhiteSoxLifer @ Jul 28, 2016 -> 03:09 PM) https://www.bostonglobe.com/sports/redsox/2...r61K/story.html Eduardo Rodriguez as the centerpeice in a Sale trade??? Lol, good try, Nick.

QUOTE (GreenSox @ Jul 28, 2016 -> 02:47 PM) Anyone who follows the major league organization, not just the major league team, should be aware; perhaps not of Tatis specifically, but of the importance of those A ball players in developing an org. Once again see the Red Sox,Cubs, Dodgers: teams that actually developed great systems. They are still paying $9 million per for a pitcher with bad peripherals. I note with interest that the Jays are only paying $5 million per and Upton was having a good year. Haha....whaaaa?

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Jul 28, 2016 -> 01:48 PM) One of them will be gone when Rodon soon returns. Hopefully Fulmer. The dude obviously isn't ready. Shame on Ranaudo. Dude pitched well.

QUOTE (Lillian @ Jul 28, 2016 -> 01:46 PM) How would Betts rate as a centerfielder, if he were moved there? He's played 160 games there in his career. At worst, average.

QUOTE (Lip Man 1 @ Jul 28, 2016 -> 01:40 PM) Hope Chris can pitch well and get the win. I really would like to see him win 20 this year. A month ago that looked like a given...now? Mark Still a given.

QUOTE (iamshack @ Jul 28, 2016 -> 01:06 PM) I really do not believe that. Yah, me either.

QUOTE (bruni @ Jul 28, 2016 -> 12:21 PM) Yankees take the entire haul received from Cubs for Chapman, add #2 overall catching prospect Gary Sanchez AND Pineda (Coop will fix him!) for Sale. Sox immediately solve long term catching issue with Sanchez and most recent #1 Collins, get stronger up the middle in time with McKinney and Rashard Crawford, acquire stud middle infielder Torres (who I would convert into a 2B) and have both Warren and Pineda to bolster starting pitching staff. As you see above, I told you about the Yankees being in play back on page 30 of this thread... I agree that the package is light, but the WSox have underwhelmed before. I have zero faith in the ability of this front office to pull off a Miller-esque heist a la Atlanta's fleecing of Arizona. I believe unfortunately that despite the posturing, the league knows that they want to move Sale and/or Jerry is sick of the repeated embarrassments and distractions from Sale's behavior. I still think Sale is the guy that gets moved before the deadline on the 1st. We shall see... Pineda is a free agent after 2017 - he would need to be nothing more than a pot sweetener. Severino is the pitcher you want. Aaron Judge would also need to be included in any Sale/Q trade to NYY.

QUOTE (Lip Man 1 @ Jul 28, 2016 -> 11:42 AM) CBS Sportsline has a story this morning that the Yankees have called Hahn multiple times and are pushing to try to get Sale. Mark Torres / Mateo / Judge / Sanchez / Rutherford / Severino / Pineda. Ehhhh. Don't like it.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Jul 28, 2016 -> 11:27 AM) People got annoyed enough with it. We would be a better organization if we had never signed him. He's our best hitter.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Jul 28, 2016 -> 10:38 AM) To note - apparently the market for OF/DH types has been pretty limited for Beltran, so I wouldn't expect much for the bolded. You've been noticeably much more silent on your Melky sucks agenda this year.

QUOTE (ChiSoxJon @ Jul 28, 2016 -> 09:31 AM) RHP Miguel Gonzalez to MIA for RHPs Austin Brice (MIA #11 prospect) and Cody Poteet (MIA's #17 prospect) RHP James Shields and cash to CHC for RHP Duane Underwood (CHC #7 Prospect) and OF Eddy Martinez (CHC #14 prospect) LHP Zach Duke to TEX for RHP Luke Jackson (TEX #20 prospect) and LHP Andrew Faulkner (TEX #22 prospect) RHP David Robertson to WSH for RHP Erick Fedde (MLB #92 prospect), 3B Drew Ward (WSH #12 prospect), C Pedro Severino (WSH #16 prospect), and OF Brian Goodwin RHP Matt Albers to BOS for RHP Pat Light (BOS #14 prospect) 3B Todd Frazier to NYM for OF Brandon Nimmo (NYM #5 prospect), 2B Dilson Herrera, and C Kevin Plawecki OF Melky Cabrera to SF for RHP Tyler Beede (SF #3 prospect) May as well trade Q and Sale at that point, as the 2017 is going to be horrible and none of the guys you are acquiring are going to move the needle much at all in 2017, if ever.

QUOTE (Quinarvy @ Jul 28, 2016 -> 09:22 AM) I don't know if there has ever been a team in this position. Strong seller's market (especially for pitching) with two young, left-handed aces under control that teams are banging down the door for. A stud in RF. Four BP arms that can draw interest. Two veteran hitters (Frazier and Melky) that could draw interest. But will anyone pay the requisite price for those young aces? That remains the question. I still don't think it'll happen.

QUOTE (Quinarvy @ Jul 27, 2016 -> 09:00 PM) Especially with the Dodgers offering up Urias, other GMs really don't have a card to play. Also, the Sox should try and package Sale and Quintana each with one of Shields or Gonzalez and Robertson or Jones. They could truly ask the Dodgers or Red Sox for anything at that point. I could not disagree with this post more. And there is literally zero reason to trade Nate Jones. He's cheaper than hell and very good. If someone wants to pay out their nose, you consider it, but Jones should not be shopped.

QUOTE (OmarComing25 @ Jul 27, 2016 -> 12:55 PM) The thing is, I'm not really interested in any package Texas could put together, and the Dodgers don't really have the position player prospects that we need (despite how great Urias and De Leon are). The only team I'm really interested in dealing with if I'm trading Sale is Boston and since some writers think they'd be unwilling to include both Moncada and Benintendi in a potential deal then it might make sense to hold on to him until the offseason, when they might be more willing or other teams could jump in. If the right deal isn't there don't do it just to do it. But I'm sure you'll act like they could have had Boston's entire farm system if Sale or Quintana is not traded this week. This. Great post.

QUOTE (IowaSoxFan @ Jul 27, 2016 -> 12:36 PM) Why let Melky, Frazier, Robertson, and Lawrie walk away for nothing when you can move them now and get something that can provide future value to the franchise. Because they aren't going to bring much back in return. Lawrie is hurt. Frazier is doing his best Adam Dunn impersonation, minus the walks. Melky might get you something interesting, but doubt a top 100 guy if sox aren't eating some money. Moving those guys aren't moving the needle much in a positive direction prospect-wise, and would destroy any chance the Sox have of staying in the hunt in 2016, and would be punting 2017. You can always trade those guys next July as well - when Sale and Q will be just as valuable. But as I've said many times now, if you move Sale (won't happen), may as well trade everyone of value outside of Eaton, Abreu, Rodon, Fulmer, Anderson and Jones.

QUOTE (hi8is @ Jul 27, 2016 -> 12:06 PM) Can someone with insider access please summarize the Bowden suggested trades please? The link is referred above but here it is again: http://insider.espn.go.com/blog/the-gms-of...r/post?id=12715 ITs terrible. DOn't bother reading. Sox would accept none of this proposed trades, nor should they.

QUOTE (Feeky Magee @ Jul 27, 2016 -> 12:42 PM) Some of these suggestions are ridiculous. If Robertson was somehow made a free agent now, what would his contract be? More than it is currently, in all likelihood. But I agree with your point - the Sox aren't getting Giolito for Robertson. lol

QUOTE (GreenSox @ Jul 27, 2016 -> 11:43 AM) I'll take elite prospects - Urias, Moncada, for sure; Bregman and the Pirates guys maybe. Proven talent like Mazzara or Profar doesn't do much for me. They aren't that great (or at least they haven't played that way yet). Betts is a different story, but that won't hapen. The bolded comment is just hilarious. Those guys are hardly proven. I'm not a huge fan of Profar being a headerliner in a Sale or Q trade, but that is because he is only controlled for 3 years. That isn't the case with Mazara.

QUOTE (bmags @ Jul 27, 2016 -> 11:28 AM) This year has the benefit of 3-4 teams that have graduated a lot of successful talent that has a group of top prospects behind them. Sale?Q are obviously going to be targeted by a great team already, one that puts them over top. The other top farm systems are relying on those guys to get them over the top. WE don't know what next year looks like. This is true - definitely one of the benefits to moving one or both of those guys now.

QUOTE (Flash Tizzle @ Jul 27, 2016 -> 11:20 AM) Lol we'll never learn will we? People were saying the exact same thing last year! "We have Rodon, Q and Sale, plus Eaton and Abreu as our core. Just need some tweaking.. If it doesn't work then blow it up next season." I read this basic phrase all last year around the deadline. I just don't understand how minor tweaking fixes this mess. Or, with a baron minor league system and weak FA class, how'd we would accomplish it. But I'm sure when we fail again next year we'll just fall for the same false hope come 2018 Well, Melky, Lawrie and Frazier are all FA after next year, so really 2017 would be the year to blow it up versus this year. If you can't extract any surplus trade value out of the additional year of Sale and/or Q, you hold onto them and go to battle again in 2017 (2016 isn't completely lost either), not just trade them for s***s and giggles. Look, I'm not in charge. I would be fine with the Sox tearing this thing down, because I realize this team has no minor league positional player talent. But you don't force these types of things. The Sox have literally the top 2 trade assets that are theoretically available in all of baseball - if traded, it needs to be no brainer.