ChiSox59

QUOTE (ptatc @ Jul 26, 2016 -> 10:37 AM) Buying would be a mistake. Turning down a really good offer for either sale or Quintana would also be a mistake. However, if they don't get the offer they want ie, no moncada, mazara or urias from the respective teams, it would not be a mistake to wait until the offseason to make the deals. This. Or midseason next year if they suck again, or after 2017. They still have a window to be good next year with keeping this team intact and adding a couple stopgaps. The Sox are only going to trade Q or Sale if the offer is to good to be true. Too many people around here just want to see trades - the Sox need to do this the right way. Patience.

QUOTE (lasttriptotulsa @ Jul 26, 2016 -> 10:50 AM) The contract he signed with the Orioles to avoid arbitration was 1 year $5.1 million. The Orioles released him before it became guaranteed and paid him the required 25% buyout much like the Sox did with Viciedo. I would think that the $5.1 million is the number an arbitrator would look at if it goes to arbitration next year. Right, but the team acquiring him (if traded) is on the hook for the pro-rated amount of the $5-600k.

QUOTE (Kalapse @ Jul 26, 2016 -> 10:25 AM) Ranaudo can be sent down and recalled at will this year, he was optioned in '14, '15 and '16 so this is his final option year. Correct.

QUOTE (Lillian @ Jul 26, 2016 -> 10:04 AM) He has had 11 quality starts, out of 14 chances. That is extraordinary for a number 4 or 5 starter. He has one more year of control, before he becomes a free agent after next season. His current $5 million contract is a bargain. What do you think he will get in arbitration? Sox signed him to a minor league deal. He makes much less than $5M, more like $500k.

Jose has been disappointing, no doubt about it. But even the 2016 version is an above average bat making below average salary for a 1B. He's been a problem because we expected him to be better, but Jose is not THE problem with this team. I would be down with him DHing a bit more often, his glove seems to have gotten worse.

Just keep winning.

QUOTE (greg775 @ Jul 25, 2016 -> 06:36 PM) Sox are a disgrace at least this week. Sale is available, but noooo ... he's suspended for no reason. Make him pay for the gawd-damn uniforms and call it a day. Head scratching. Pretty soon they are gonna have no fans. They are testing the fans' patience with their ineptitude. We have about a 3 percent chance of winning this game. My gawd. We're pitching a hack against Arietta. Good luck to us. There's no reason to suspend the guy over what he did. Wow. This reaches a new level..even for you.

QUOTE (Capn12 @ Jul 25, 2016 -> 04:33 PM) If the organization FINALLY commits to a proper rebuild, it gets them out of ~28-30 million and ~2.5 years owed to a position that really won't mean much for a rebuilding team. $30M does nothing for me as a fan. If they're gonna do a full rebuild and trade everything of value outside of Eaton and Abreu, fine - trade Robertson. But just trading him for a B level prospect and not moving anybody else of substance is worthless. That said, I think he's worth more than that. Look what 2.5 months of Chapman just netted.

QUOTE (soxfan2014 @ Jul 25, 2016 -> 04:20 PM) Ranaudo IS getting the start Wednesday now. Ask and you shall receive. Where are you seeing this?

QUOTE (bruni @ Jul 25, 2016 -> 03:22 PM) Yankees take the entire haul received from Cubs for Chapman, add #2 overall catching prospect Gary Sanchez AND Pineda (Coop will fix him!) for Sale. Sox immediately solve long term catching issue with Sanchez and most recent #1 Collins, get stronger up the middle in time with McKinney and Rashard Crawford, acquire stud middle infielder Torres (who I would convert into a 2B) and have both Warren and Pineda to bolster starting pitching staff. Gross. Add Severino and Judge, in addition to all those guys, and I still don't know if I like it.

QUOTE (ptatc @ Jul 25, 2016 -> 02:47 PM) There is absolutely no way that Quintana and Robertson bring that package. Then they don't get Quintana (ignoring the Castillo part - doubt the Sox have any interest, even if they're only picking up a few million).

QUOTE (Quinarvy @ Jul 25, 2016 -> 02:44 PM) But also, WTF. Your life is fascinating. No s***, please do share.

QUOTE (VAfan @ Jul 25, 2016 -> 11:13 AM) I think the Sox don't have any good choices. But I've come to the view at the moment that their most likely path is to try again to patch holes in the offseason and go for it again in 2017. Chris Sale and Quintana will always be tradeable, so there is no rush to unload them, and their value won't be lower next season. The only guys you could unload for some value before their run is up is Frazier and Lawrie and Melky. All are signed through next year. What would they net? Would it be enough to go for the tear down now, as opposed to next year, if the Sox fail again? I think any tear down is looking at another 3+ years to anything competitive, under best case scenarios. At that point, Rodon is nearing the end of his first contract, Anderson is starting arbitration, Eaton will be over 30. In short, there will be no one left from this current team that will be a bargain player the way that Sale, Quintana and Eaton are now. And waiting another year to start the rebuild will give you another year of development of whatever we have in the minors. And since all those guys are years off, that's a plus, not a minus. If we had several guys on the cusp, a tear down now might yield a more rapid return to relevance. I don't see that. So, the Sox should play out the year. Unload any guys with 1-year contracts who won't be back for whatever you can get. But keep all the pitchers and the 2-year guys, make what moves you can in the offseason, and try again. As part of going for it in 2017, however, the Sox have to try it with a different manager. Ventura has had 2 years of tweaked teams to show something, and he's failed. Not sure a new manager will make the difference, but it has to be tried. Going into next year, the Sox could be stronger. SP - Sale and Q will still anchor. Shields can be a solid #3. Rodon needs to be a lot better. Gonzalez might be kept as one of the options for the 5th slot. This would be better than they started 2016. BP - lots of guys injured at the moment. Return to health should improve this unit. Plus Fullmer and Burdi might strengthen it. Fullmer might also be considered as a 5th starter option. Lineup keepers. Anderson, Eaton, Melky, Frazier, Lawrie, Abreu. Not great, but potentially servicable. Key here is Abreu. He has to turn it around or the Sox aren't going to have a decent offense. Lineup turnover. CF, DH, C. Those are the 3 biggest holes. They need to be filled with quality, not afterthoughts. Guys who are BETTER than the 6 keepers. To conclude: when you are 3 good players and a new manager from having a contending team, it's not time to throw in the towel and start over. Better to go for it. If you miss, it won't have really cost you anything. Nice post. I agree with a lot of it. The Sox are in a lot of ways, stuck. I don't think Sale and Quintana's trade value drops at all from this summer to next. The core of the Sox offense and pitching is still intact in 2017. If there is ever a year to tear down, it'd be next year if things fail again. As you said, you could trade Melky, Frazier and Lawrie now, but are you going to get much that improves the Sox future? Nothing too exciting, would be my guess. You can trade them next July if you suck again. I do think it may be in the Sox best interest to just hold tight and do what they've been doing the past few years. Is it a broken record? Ya, totally - but again, they're probably not going to get any more value out of Sale and/or Q now than they are next July, so why not try one more time before the core gets broken down after 2017? Sign Carlos Gomez to man center next year - maybe you can get him on an incentive laden one year deal and hope he goes bonkers. Go sign Jason Castro to a 1 year deal to get another bat from the left side, and hope that Collins will be ready in 2018. Resign a Morneau or something inexpensive to DH most of the time (Steve Pearce, Napoli, Alvarex, Beltra, Joyce, Smith, Morrisson, Moss, Lind, Teixera - there are options). Nothing there will be overly expensive and won't have future commitments. After 2017, the Sox will have very little on the books. If they suck again next year, that would be the more logical time to firesale everything and start over. With the core they have now, there is a still a chance to compete next year if you don't go out and trade your two aces. All that said - I get it if the Sox decide to move on. They've tried this same strategy for years, to no avail. I get it. It just seems to me the timing works much better next year, and its not like Sox best trade assets are devaluing over that time (barring injuries, of course).

QUOTE (chitownsportsfan @ Jul 25, 2016 -> 02:28 PM) Sox would do well to get a B- position player prospect back. May as well keep him if thats all you get. That does virtually nothing for the Sox.

QUOTE (lasttriptotulsa @ Jul 25, 2016 -> 02:13 PM) They really should move Turner into long relief for this series and give the start to Ranaudo. He definitely deserves a shot over Turner with the way he's pitched this year. This.

QUOTE (TheFutureIsNear @ Jul 25, 2016 -> 01:04 PM) Am I missing something with the Dodgers system? Let's remove Seager, Pederson, and Urias because I don't believe they will be involved in any deals. That leaves...De Leon, Holmes, Belinger, Verugo, Barnes, Toles, and a bunch of 17 and 18 year olds. Nice prospects, but no headliner there for me. And even if 1 of those 3 were involved it would almost 100% be Pederson....and ehh, not sure he's the prize he once was. Joc, De Leon, Bellinger, Verdugo, and Barnes for Q or Sale? Definitely wouldn't be my favorite package. Agreed. I need Urias, De Leon, Barnes and 2 others are included in any package Sale or Q package. I just don't think the Dodgers have the bullets without Urias.

QUOTE (pittshoganerkoff @ Jul 25, 2016 -> 12:04 PM) I just can't condone what Sale did here. I can understand his frustration about not winning and thinking that the team is more interested in marketing. But to shred all of the jerseys and throw a temper tantrum just makes him look like a fool. The Sox did the right thing by suspending him, but I'm not sure it'll do any good. If anything, he might even be saltier about the whole thing. Before all of this, I was barely willing to accept the idea of trading him for a huge haul. Now, I'm more willing, but I'd still want to see a huge haul. My concern is that if he isn't traded (now or in the off season), will relations between him and the Sox ever heal? My guess is Chris realizes what a dumb thing it was to do and regrets it. Despite the narrative that some are trying to spin, Chris does not hate the White Sox or playing for this organization. He may not agree with everything (what employee does?), but he had a momentraily lapse of judgement and I am sure he is embarrassed as all hell. All will be fine.

QUOTE (hi8is @ Jul 25, 2016 -> 12:06 PM) Horrible horrible read worth it for the laugh: http://nypost.com/2016/07/25/could-yankees...s-sale-pursuit/ Sale to the Yankees, with them taking Robertson in order to give up less prospects. Yea... Sure. Moron. Nice try, Joel. Comical.

QUOTE (Sox Fan In Husker Land @ Jul 25, 2016 -> 11:52 AM) Q is an elite pitcher. The only thing he doesn't have is W's next to his name. Hell, Sunday he went 6 2/3 0 runs 1 BB 3 H and he got an ND. If that doesn't sum up his career as a Sox pitcher, I don't know what does. Since his 1st full season as a starter his #s are elite among pitchers. 2013 - 3.5 fWAR 30th overall (15th in AL) 2014 - 5.1 fWAR 10th overall (8th in AL) 2015 - 4.8 fWAR 14th overall (6th in AL) 2016 - 3.2 fWAR 9th overall (on pace for 5.1 fWAR), (3rd in AL) Look at his trajectory among AL pitchers 15th, 8th, 6th, 3rd. He's 27, easy delivery, no signs of arm issues, and locked up cheap as hell for the next 4 years. MLB pitching leaders in fWAR from 2013 - today: Kershaw 28.9 fWAR. 4 years 141 left million contract. 28 years old. Scherzer 20.7 fWAR. 5 years 170 million left on contract. 32 years old. Price 19.8 fWAR 6 years 187 million left on contract. 30, will be 31 in August. Kluber 19.4 fWAR 5 years 59.1 million (could increase to 70.9) left on contract. 30 years old. Sale 19.1 fWAR 3 years 38 million left on contract. 27 years old. Quintana 16.5 fWAR 4 years 37.85 million left on contract. 27 years old. Both Sale and Q should bring back a huge bounty if one is traded. If there are no MLB proven young players thrown into the trade I do not see how they can take anything less than 3 top 50 prospects, and 2 more top 100 prospects for one of Sale or Q. This is a good post.

QUOTE (Buehrlesque @ Jul 25, 2016 -> 11:37 AM) If the Sox could pull this off, wow. It's my absolute No. 1 dream scenario. I need Kopech in that deal as well.

QUOTE (SouthSideSale @ Jul 25, 2016 -> 11:24 AM) They'll get Quintana and Robertson in a deal. Do they need Frazier as well? I can't remember how 3B is for them? Blockbuster involving Q, DRob, Frazier for Moncada+ Moncada ++++++++

QUOTE (Chicago White Sox @ Jul 25, 2016 -> 06:56 AM) Anyone hear the Heyman interview on Mulley & Hanley this morning? My Cubs buddy claims he said that Quintana gets you half of what Sale does. Can anyone verify that? If true, then definitely deal Sale and hold onto Q. I didn't hear it, but these dudes only know so much. Heyman is one of the better ones, but take it with a grain of salt. Q should get close to what Sale can bring back.

QUOTE (Quinarvy @ Jul 25, 2016 -> 10:53 AM) We saw Beane do it with Lester-Cespedes. Sometimes desperate times call for desperate measures. We can give them...J.B. Shuck. Then they won't be getting Chris Sale.

QUOTE (Lip Man 1 @ Jul 24, 2016 -> 05:24 PM) Nice...maybe they can finish the year over .500...maybe. Mark Go away

QUOTE (Baron @ Jul 24, 2016 -> 09:11 PM) Red Sox on various other forums think he'll be a salary dump only lol Sox aren't moving Robertson if they don't get real prospect value in return. They aren't going to trade him w Q or anyone else if it lowers their value (it won't). Outside of a few outings tanks year, Robertson has been great.