ChiSox59

QUOTE (staxx @ Dec 22, 2015 -> 12:14 PM) I really believe that this is just smoke and mirrors for leverage on Cespedes/Upton. Gordon doesn't make sense for what we need. Uhhhhh...he is EXACTLY what this team needs. Literally the only negative about him is that he's 32.

QUOTE (LDF @ Dec 21, 2015 -> 01:29 PM) i wouldn't mind taking a stab at parra and if not him, i like David Murphy who is a lhh and plays the outfield. if someone looks at the lineup, it is heavily right handed hitting. Murphy's got a nice bat, but he is a HORRIBLE outfielder.

I think Gordon is the best overall fit on the Sox. He will command significantly less than Upton and Cespedes, plays plus-plus D and is a LH bat. I think Upton and Cespedes are better offensive players, but not $60-$70M better. I'd be fine with any of the three, but Gordon in LF, Eaton is CF, and a RF platoon of Avi/Shuck or better yet an OF platoon of Parra/Avi would IMMENSELY improve the OF defense, which I think should be a priority. For those of you that say, "well what about LaRoche?"...he can remain on the roster for injury insurance, pinch hitting, defensive replacement and Abreu's personal masseuse. He'll get his ABs. This scenario obviously requires the Sox to raise payroll, but they can get cute so it only bumps it about $12-15M this year and goes back down to $125M or so next year.

QUOTE (ChiSoxFanMike @ Dec 21, 2015 -> 12:53 PM) What kind of contract do you think he'll get then? I could see 2 years $16M, three years $24M for Parra.

QUOTE (bmags @ Dec 21, 2015 -> 11:06 AM) That $12 million is what I'm talking about though. I think he'll sign a deal much lower than people expected. Considering Zobrist just got 16 mill at 35 he should at least be getting that deal and I wonder if he will. I find it very hard to believe that he won't get (at minimum) a deal around $18-$20M AAV over 4 years. I also find it very hard to believe that he'd turn down 4/$80M and sign with the Royals at 4/$50M. No way he leaves $30M on the table.

QUOTE (striker @ Dec 21, 2015 -> 10:50 AM) Yeah, I posted that before I looked into Fernendez. I knew he had TJ but didn't realize he was such a health risk. I'd keep Rodon over Fernandez. I'd still like Ozuna somehow though. That deal probably doesn't get you Fernandez, let alone Fernandez and Ozuna (edit). But I don't think the Sox would be interested in that trade anyway, let alone what it would actually take to get both of them.. Leave Rodon alone. The dude is gonna be a true ace very soon.

QUOTE (raBBit @ Dec 21, 2015 -> 10:51 AM) Despite what the White Sox beat writers say, the White Sox are very much willing to give up the QO. I said and Hayes told me highly doubts it but now Nightengale and Olney have said it. For Gordon or Upton...fine. For Fowler or Desmond...i hope not.

QUOTE (bmags @ Dec 21, 2015 -> 09:24 AM) I feel like Gordon is going to sign a very team friendly deal for some reason. That reason would be that he doesn't have much of a market. The big market teams aren't looking for an OF. His "hometown" team is lowballing him at $12AAV. The Sox should really swoop in and offer him 4 year/ $80M. That's nearly $30M over the Royals current offer. He makes this team so much better.

QUOTE (CaliSoxFanViaSWside @ Dec 21, 2015 -> 09:28 AM) Many of us believe if the Sox don't sign one of the big 3 OFer's ( Gordon, Upton, Cespedes) that signing Frazier will have been a waste. Needless to say signing one of the BIG 3 will be the richest contract ever given by the Sox. How likely is that ? Would it be more likely the Sox pursue a guy like Fowler to play CF and who's OBP is very high to create a 1-2 OBPunch at the top of the order ? It would mean better OF defense but he's not even close to being the kind of impact bat Upton or Cespedes are. Still Eaton and Fowler at the top of the order would certainly give guys like Abreu and Frazier many opportunities to get RBI's. Maybe Fowler takes a 3 year contract and then the Sox have more room to sign that RH starting pitcher they have been reportedly seeking or add another BP piece like Albers. Or both. Would this kind of back up plan be acceptable or seen as a 1/2 measure ? I doubt the Sox have interest in Fowler. Will cost them a pick, and he's a below average OF with a mediocre bat. He does walk a good bit, though. And he bats RH, which doesn't make him a natural platoon with anyone on the roster. I would think Parra would be at the top of their list if they fall short Cedpedes, Upton and Gordon. I could also see the Sox being active in trying to find an OF via trade. Not sure who, though. Blackmon and Dickerson would be nice fits that have been discussed, but may be too spendy. Reddick another guy to look at, but he only has one year of control remaining, so he doesn't really fit in the new 2-3 year window, but perhaps could be gotten a little cheaper, but don't see the Sox making another deal with the A's. Beyond that, I don't really see many great fits on the FA market. Perhaps a Span or Austin Jackson. Or a tier lower like Raburn, Murphy or Joyce. But all of those guys have significant question marks..I'd almost prefer to see a Shuck/Avi platoon in RF than signing some(most) of those guys, outside of Span, any just see what happens..you can always try to pick up an OF in June.

I could actually see him hitting 15-18 HRs. He showed pretty good pop. Perhaps closer to 12-15 that the OP stated, but I could see him hitting .245/.300 with that kind of pop and defense at SS and you got yourself a pretty good player.

QUOTE (GreenSox @ Dec 20, 2015 -> 09:43 AM) Sure they hit homers...but not with swing and miss low obp sluggers, fawned over hereon. Sox had players across the board who who could hit. They also played impeccable defense and dumped a slugger at a steep discount to shore up his and other positions. Can we just ban this clown? Please.

QUOTE (bmags @ Dec 19, 2015 -> 01:25 PM) Listening to both Hahn interviews now. One thing I kind of want to know is do GMs just call around and see in general what prospects other teams like of theirs to call in for three team deals. That piece on the Dodgers saying they could get Frazier was so interesting, I wonder if we call them to bring them in or are just talking to them about their players and it comes up. I am guessing that the Dodgers were going to send the same or similar package to Reds for Chapman. When that fell apart, Frazier was brought up but LAD didn't want him due to Turner. Cincy probably told Hahn that they wanted those three from LAD so they worked out the three way. Friedman said he wasn't comfortable moving Frazier to the OF or Turner to 2B. Also saw a tweet shortly after the trade that said Sox were involved in the Chapman trade. I believe it came from Heyman or Rosenthal. Would have been interesting to see what that deal would have looked like, but presume the Sox were still getting Frazier.

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Dec 19, 2015 -> 08:39 AM) With Cespedes and Upton both rumored by nearly every expert to be in $150 million territory, logic says that Gordon is the one to fall, like Scott Shields last year. The problem with this theory is that 4 years and $100 million is a lot more palatable to about half of MLB in terms of a max contract for their franchise...you can see Gordon falling to maybe $85-90 million, but that would be the absolute floor unless something comes up on a physical exam that draws a red flag and scares teams off (or is used as a negotiating tactic). Scott Sheilds?lol

QUOTE (SoCalSox @ Dec 18, 2015 -> 07:11 PM) Any truth to the rumor floating around that Robertson could be on the block? Would be extremely stupid. Zero truth.

QUOTE (bmags @ Dec 18, 2015 -> 03:04 PM) I wonder if Sox were in on him at all. I'm guessing lots were interested but he may have wanted a place where he saw the rotation fit. If Danks/ EJ scared him off, he must not be too healthy or confident in his ability to bounce back.

The exact type of deal I was expounding the Sox should make to 2K yesterday.

QUOTE (blackmooncreeping @ Dec 18, 2015 -> 01:37 PM) All very good points. I like the scenario of offering 10-12 million for 2016, then jumping up to 20-25 million in the following years before the inevitable opt-out clause after year 3. This way the player would be guaranteed 60+ million over the first 3 years of the deal, with JR only having to really jack up the payroll in 2016. Which is 1 of 2 years we have Frazier and Lawrie under control. It kind of needs to be done. No more of this half-assed stuff. Thankfully, I think the Sox FO is on the same page and will do what needs to be done.

QUOTE (flavum @ Dec 18, 2015 -> 01:29 PM) Scott Yes, thanks.

QUOTE (blackmooncreeping @ Dec 18, 2015 -> 01:31 PM) Got it. I don't necessarily want to cut bait on Avi, but I don't want him starting in RF for 130 games either. Me and the rest of the White Sox universe on that last point I guess... Nor do I my friend.

QUOTE (blackmooncreeping @ Dec 18, 2015 -> 01:29 PM) OK, I'm assuming you mean this scenario is if we actually land one of the big 3, who can then play LF for Melky. Then we still have Avi in right...? Correct. LF - Upton/Cespedes/Gordon CF-Eaton RF-Parra or Shuck / Avi platoon DH- Melky Bench warmer extraordinaire: LaRoche That is a VASTLY improved defense (especially if Gordon is the one signed), even with Avi still in RF a couple days a week.

QUOTE (blackmooncreeping @ Dec 18, 2015 -> 01:26 PM) Shuck could match Avi's offensive #'s I bet. And I do mean offensive... Perhaps. I'd be fine giving Avi another chance, just in a limited role unless he earns more or in case of an injury. Think about...under current roster construction, after Avi and Shuck...next man up is Scott Hairston or Jason Coats. Avi needs to be retained, but I'd be fine with him starting in AAA.

QUOTE (blackmooncreeping @ Dec 18, 2015 -> 01:20 PM) Who would be the main DH if Laroche is on the team and it's NOT him? Also, if you can get Gordon on slightly cheaper dollars than expected maybe JR can be convinced to get that 2nd outfielder. I'm still split on whether a 2nd outfielder or a righty starting pitcher would be the way to go if they bump the budget up. Melky. LaRoche can DH on days when a bad RHP is on the hill, sending Melky to the bench or spelling of the OF.

QUOTE (blackmooncreeping @ Dec 18, 2015 -> 01:15 PM) It's a tough pill to swallow no doubt, but I wouldn't say it's pointless. It would at least facilitate an opening at DH that Melky could fill; lineup becomes better, as does the defense. If Laroche is on the team come April, he's starting at DH no matter how you slice it right? Yuck to that. A quick fix is to bring in 2 outfielders, one major and one mid-tier, and the roster problem is solved imo. Still need a starting pitcher though, not sure if JR would extend that far after last year's face plant, or if Hahn & Co. can get that creative deal-wise... 1st Bold: I don't agree with. He'll be on the roster, but I hope its not as a everyday DH. Unlikely, but its possible. 2nd Bold: I totally agree, and have been piping it for awhile now. One of the big three, plus Parra to platoon with Avi in RF. Also unlikely, but it makes the most sense, but would also require a significant increase in payroll from last year. vs. RHP Eaton - CF Melky - DH Abreu - 1B Frazier - 3B Upton/Cespedes/Gordon - LF Parra - RF Lawrie - 2B Avila - C Saladino - SS BN: Sanchez, Avi, LaRoche, Navarro vs. LHP Eaton - CF Melky - DH Abreu - 1B Frazier - 3B Upton/Cespedes/Gordon - LF Avi - RF Lawrie - 2B Navarro - C Saladino - SS BN: Sanchez, Avi, LaRoche, Avila Another cheaper, more realistic option is to just replace Shuck with Parra (but obviously move him down the lineup a bit), but not sure I want Shuck getting 350 ABs.

QUOTE (Knackattack @ Dec 18, 2015 -> 01:11 PM) Melky in LF can be stomached but Avi in RF absolutely cannot be. He has to go. It's 1 more year of Melk chugging around like a fool in LF, then he is DH for a season. I'd prefer neither of them in the OF but a couple games a week. Upton/Gordon/Cespedes plus Parra. Pipe dream, I know, but it makes the White Sox much better.

QUOTE (blackmooncreeping @ Dec 18, 2015 -> 09:58 AM) Give them another call, phone stalk them, throw in another 2 million. Do whatever it takes to open up the DH spot for Melky and bring in 2 outfielders. Cmon Hahn! Eating $10M of LaRoches contract is pointless. May as well keep him as injury insurance, PH and and late inning defensive replacement at that juncture. I actually think he may have a decent year, but I still think they need to go into the season with Melky as the primary DH / occasional OFer.