ChiSox59

QUOTE (Eminor3rd @ Oct 13, 2015 -> 08:25 AM) I'm not sure Colorado would trade Arenado for Sale straight up. Maybe since they need pitching so badly, but that's how valuable pre-arb positional stars are. Colorado would kill for Chris Sale. They can't attract pitching to save their lives. Adding Cargo was a bit of stretch, but I certainly not as big of stretch as adding Q, Fulmer and Abreu.

QUOTE (Lip Man 1 @ Oct 13, 2015 -> 11:22 AM) Lillian: With respect to you. Flowers is a black hole and no, no, no ,no to Olt. Still with four gigantic holes in the lineup offensively...just my opinion. Mark Every team has black holes in their lineup. So long as those players produce defensively, its not a huge problem. Very few teams have potent lineup from 1-9. The Sox can live with Sanchez and Flowers in their lineup. I am no fan of Flowers, but he is a league average catcher. The catching position around baseball is pitiful. I see no reason to play Olt. I'd rather Saladino play 3B. I thought Olt's glove was pretty medicre at best...at least Saldino can throw some leather. But I am pretty much convinced the Sox will have a 3B on their roster next year who is not currently there and one that will be batting between 3-6.

QUOTE (Thad Bosley @ Oct 13, 2015 -> 08:25 AM) Sorry, but you really can't make that statement as of today. Maybe after a series of shrewd offseason moves, perhaps, but not now. If you'll recall, we just finished third to last in the league, thanks to the miserably worst offense and almost as equally abysmal defense. There is nothing "solid" at all there at the moment, save Sale, Abreu, Q, Eaton, and Robertson. Fairly steep drop off after those fellas. The rotation and bullpen is pretty damn good. I think most teams in MLB would trade our staff for theirs anyday. I honestly don't think much needs to be done there at all. I think an offensive core of Abreu, Eaton and Cabrera is a solid start. You have the middle of the order power bat who can hit for a high average. The high OBP guy who can lead off and steal you some bags, and could conceivable hit well about .300. And I personally think Melky is a pretty good offensive player who had a tough year, especially early on. I am not ready to label him a sunk cost. Alexei's option will likely be picked up, and he is at worst an average offensive player at SS. You add in another big bat (hopefully an OF that pushes Melky to DH most of the time), and a 3B, and I think you now have a very good offense. Sure, that will require a couple moves, but moves that I think are necessary when you're trotting Chris Sale, Jose Quintana and Carlos Rodon out to the mound 3/5 days on contracts that pay them far far far far less than their value. So yes, I think this team has a solid base/core to work from, with a slew of arms (a few of which are MLB ready or close to MLB ready) that they can trade from to help supplement this roster (Montas, Danish, Beck, Adams, Guerrero,etc.).

QUOTE (nitetrain8601 @ Oct 13, 2015 -> 12:50 AM) Arenado is not on the block. If he was, you're not getting him for Q. Now you want him and CarGo for Q? That deal would take you Sale, Q, Fullmer, and Abreu. I don't think you realize how much Colorado wants to build around Arenado. I think you honestly have a better shot at getting Stanton. Either which way, out of the midlevel options I really like Murphy & Fowler as well. Hahahah, cmon on man. Sale could easily get you Arenado and Cargo. Add Fulmer, Q and Abreu? Hah.

QUOTE (Lip Man 1 @ Oct 12, 2015 -> 03:49 PM) 59: One definition of insanity is doing the same failing thing over and over again and expecting it to work. You bring in vets to fill holes when you are ready to contend. The Sox in my opinion are not ready to contend, there are still far to many major black holes in this lineup and on the team. Let me ask one simple question, why would you want the Sox to get into the same position again that Hahn was trying to dig them out of in 2013? Signing expensive guys (even assuming someone like Zobrist would even WANT to play for the Sox - which is a mighty big assumption) to deals when they are in their 30's is another recipe for disaster. What you are suggesting is a "Kenny Williams special" and history shows that has worked out SO WELL for this franchise since the start of the 2007 season hasn't it? They need young talent (which is hard to get granted) not going back to the same philosophy that hasn't worked. I repeat, I'd rather lose with kids who maybe...just maybe have an upside then lose with guys who simply are not going to get better and don't solve the major issues on this club. Like Mark Gonzales told me one time, the absolute worst position a team can be in is to have a bunch of declining guys on the roster with big deals who are unmotivated. I'd rather not have the Sox go back to that place...no thank you. But then again obviously as a Sox historian I have no idea what I'm talking about. LOL! Mark A couple things: Zobrist being a "stiff" and Zobrist not being the best fit for the 2016 White Sox are very different things. Ben Zobrist is an outstandingly productive and valuable player that any team in MLB would like to have. Is he worth throwing a long term big money deal at? No, but at his age, he is more likely looking at a 2-3 year deal in the $12-$15M AAV range. Not exactly earth shattering in today's game. You've made it clear in the past that you don't like advanced stats (another reason why your historical view on baseball is tired), but take a look at Zobrist's. The numbers don't lie. I agree that patching a bad team with high priced veterans doesn't always pay off. Sometimes it does, but you can't just look at all of this stuff in a vacuum. If the Sox mostly stand pat, I don't think Zobrist makes much sense. But look, the Sox have one of the best pitchers in baseball on their roster, and decent offensive core. They have the makings of a solid team, if smart moves are made to supplement the roster. You have to stop wasting Chris Sale's prime years...if you throw a bunch of kids out there, you need to trade Sale, and the Sox will never get even money for Sale, so they shouldn't and won't trade him. That is pretty much exactly why I think the Sox will continue to try to supplement their roster rather than tearing it up and trading their best assets. You can pretty much apply this same line of though to Quintana, but obviously down a tier. In that case, a guy like Zobrist makes a ton of sense if you can find other places to improve this teams line up and defense, which I am confident Rick Hahn will leave no stone unturned in his search.

QUOTE (Lip Man 1 @ Oct 10, 2015 -> 10:08 PM) No thank you to both Ramirez and Zobrist. Both over 30, heading downhill, the Sox don't need more stiffs who are unmotivated with big expensice contracts. If the Sox are going to continue to suck (and they probably will) I'd rather see a bunch of kids who at least care. MMark Zobrist is far from a "stiff". From reading you posts the past few months, I often wonder if you have any idea what you're talking about. I think this seals it.

QUOTE (HickoryHuskers @ Oct 8, 2015 -> 02:54 PM) You need to get out more. You need more clever comebacks.

QUOTE (HickoryHuskers @ Oct 8, 2015 -> 02:24 PM) You need to get out more. I have lived in MN my whole life.

QUOTE (Vance Law @ Oct 8, 2015 -> 01:03 PM) That'd be a pretty easy obvious move to make if it weren't in the division. Can anyone think of a recent similar trade we pulled off with an intra-division team and both teams were trying to compete? I watch a lot of Twins games. Plouffe is pretty mediocre at 3B defensively. He is also a sub .700 OPS guys against RHP. No thanks.

QUOTE (soxfan2014 @ Oct 8, 2015 -> 11:38 AM) The only guy that comes to mind (while not a huge year but someone who could probably be had for cheap) is Christian Villanueva of the Cubs. Turned 24 in June, 20 homers, about a 16% K rate, .257 avg, .314 obp, .752 ops. May not be perfect but better than what's in-house now. Ryan McMahon. Rockies. Probably a couple years away, but I think a Montas - McMahon swap makes too much sense.

QUOTE (Dunt @ Oct 7, 2015 -> 12:03 PM) Ya, I would forego hair, fingernails, a liver, anything, to regularly be nervous in October. Touche.

QUOTE (raBBit @ Oct 6, 2015 -> 09:44 PM) WAR is a counting stat Balta. In those three seasons Sale made 30, 26 and 31 starts, which brings him to a WAR total (counting stat) that is less than his peers that you mentioned. WAR/200 IP, starts/season Kershaw ---------7.02, 31 Sale ------------- 5.49, 29 Scherzer -------- 5.34, 32.67 Kluber -----------5.19, 30 Price ------------- 5.16, 31 Felix -------------4.49, 32 I have no problem with you saying Sale isn't a once in a generation pitcher and I agree with you but the argument that there is a several pitchers that have been better than him is silly. He's missed some starts over strains and the team being careful but should he really be punished for that? The several pitchers that you mentioned as better than him, over your preferred sample, have been more effective on a cumulative basis but on a rate basis, Kershaw is the only pitcher who has been better than Sale. But that doesn't fit his narrative!!

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Oct 6, 2015 -> 08:20 AM) If Bruce Levine is reporting he's retiring, Buehrle has no choice. One thing I noticed watching the "highlights" of his last start, he certainly hasn't missed too many meals lately. Buehrle is getting really big. Who cares? You don't have to be in supreme shape to be a pitcher.

QUOTE (SoxPride18 @ Oct 6, 2015 -> 03:29 PM) Desmond is also pretty bad defensively at SS. He had an abysmal 1st half of the season, strikeouts a ton, and has never played 3rd in the MLB. I'd rather much go after a real 3B like Frazier (hopefully rumors are true of Sox going after him). Were there actually substantial rumors of the Sox going after Frazier, or just fan conjecture? I like the idea of Frazier, but he is going to be expensive to acquire. Plus he is only under control for 2 more years. If the Sox acquire him, they better plug some other holes and go for it, otherwise its not worth it and they should focus on pieces with more control. I could also totally see Todd Frazier coming over to the Sox and being a butcher at 3B and hitting .220 with about 15 homers.

QUOTE (bmags @ Oct 5, 2015 -> 04:47 PM) Jonathan LuCroy for Micah Johnson and Avi Garcia is not even close to real. To be fair, it was plus Trey as well, but yeah, still a stretch.

My pie in the sky plan: -Make qualifying offer to Shark (he rejects). -Exercise Alexei Ramirez's option -Resign Albers to 1/$2.5M deal. -Get whatever you can for Flowers Free Agents & Acquistions -Sign Jayson Heyward to 6/$150M deal -Sign Ben Zobrist to 2/$30M deal (may require 3/$40 to get it done) -Sign Fister, Latos or Kennedy to 1 year incentive laden deal -Sign John Jaso (C/1B/DH) -Trade John Danks and Adam LaRoche (+5M) for Melvin Upton Jr and Austin Hedges -Trade Avi Garcia and Micah Johnson for a C. I'd like to see Lucroy, but realize that may require another piece - maybe Michalczewski or Danish in addition to those guys. I'd lean towards moving Trey due to the addition of McMahon (see below). 1. Eaton, CF 2. Zobrist, 3B 3. Abreu, 1B 4. Heyward, RF 5. Cabrera, LF 6. Lucroy, C (DHs against LHP; Hedges catches) 7. Jaso, DH (sits versus LHP) 8. Ramirez, SS 9. Sanchez, 2B UTIL: Saladino OF: Thompson OF: Melvin Upton Jr. BC: Hedges (catches 3 times a week; Lucroy shifts to DH or 1B) #1: Sale #2: Quintana #3: Rodon #4: Johnson #5: Fister / Latos / Kennedy (Fulmer mid-season call-up if necessary) CL: Robertson SU: Jones SU: Duke MR: Putnam MR: Jennings MR: Petricka MR: Albers Other moves: Frankie Montas traded for a prospect of more need to the White Sox. 3B Ryan McMahon in the Rockies organization makes a ton of sense - blocked by Arenado, can step in for Zobrist after his 2 year expires at 3B, or Zobrist can move to 2B or OF (where ever needed) if McMahon pushes Zobrist off 3B before his contract expires.

My grades: Abreu: A- Sanchez: C Micah: D Lexi: C+ Olt: D Gillaspie: D. Saladino: C+ Melky: C Eaton: B+ Avi: C- LaRoche: F Trayce: B+ Shuck: B Beckham: C Flowers: C Soto: C Sale: A- Quintana: A Rodon: B+ Danks: C+ Shark: D Duke: C Petricka: C+ Nate: B- Robertson: B Jennings: C+ Albers: A Putnam: B- Robin: D-

QUOTE (elrockinMT @ Oct 5, 2015 -> 03:34 PM) HuskerHickory mentions Beckham but I think Gordo signed a two year deal didn't he? Nope. 1 year / $2M.

QUOTE (Y2JImmy0 @ Oct 2, 2015 -> 02:31 PM) They have one of the 5 best pitchers in baseball. They have another pitcher that has been 8th in fWAR since 2013. They also have another TOR with 6 years of control. They have a good bullpen. They have cornerstone pieces in Abreu/Eaton. There are absolutely holes. They have pitching though and loads of it. I need to see what happens this offseason before I start writing off future seasons. That's just me though. Yep. The pieces are there. I don't see how changing the manager could hurt though. Just mix it up. Robin's had his chance.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Oct 2, 2015 -> 12:38 PM) They have been trying to replacing him for two years now. Hence the Brian McCann chase. But that shouldn't stop another ownership shot. Becoming quite annoying, no doubt.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Oct 2, 2015 -> 10:16 AM) One thing just came to mind... I could really see the team making a QO to Samardjiza, who then walks. Then a trade of Quintana for their cornerstone 3B or C, plus a lot more pieces. Then the coup de grace... The re-signing of Mark Buehrle. Agreed. I wouldn't hate it (assuming they get a haul for Q), and Mark signs on the cheap (relateively). I honestly see Buehrle as a fairly likely scenario if Q is traded.

Good. The current video board is so outdated it is literally almost funny. This will be a HUGE improvement of the ballpark experience.

QUOTE (Lip Man 1 @ Sep 30, 2015 -> 05:43 PM) Not his fault but the kid can't stay healthy. If he's not healthy, he can't play... simple as that. Mark Great insight.

What an epic story.

QUOTE (Buehrle>Wood @ Sep 28, 2015 -> 09:06 PM) You're just proving why he could very well be undervalued. You think of the elite pitchers in baseball, those other 9 immediately would come to mind. Q would not. What the general public thinks doesn't matter. If the Sox don't get an absolute haul, they won't trade him. That much I am convinced of. You're wasting your time worrying about it.