Lip Man 1

Five years after the deal I did a long, historical story on that day and the impact at that time on the franchise. Here is the link for any interested: http://www.whitesoxinteractive.com/rwas/in...y=2&id=1528

Nice post by Lillian. My own opinion of next year's team is quite simple. Play / acquire anyone who MAY be of some value in two years assuming the team has turned things around. Find out if any of those guys can contribute to a good team at the major league level in various ways. 2018 is about continuing to develop depth and talent, not wins and losses. Oh, and to get another very high draft pick.

I suspect that certain teams are going to spend incredible amounts of money in an effort to win, restrictions, taxes be dammed. That's simply the way they are.

QUOTE (LittleHurt05 @ Jul 28, 2017 -> 02:02 PM) The fluctuations in attendance back then are crazy: https://www.baseball-reference.com/teams/CH...le-scores.shtml May 28 vs. KC, Tuesday day game: 3,647 May 30 vs. CLE Thursday day doubleheader: 38,150 June 1 vs. DET : Saturday afternoon: 9,413 June 8 vs. BAL: Saturday afternoon: 5,642 June 11 vs. Yankees: Tuesday night: 49,114 June 12 vs. Yankees: Wednesday night: 40,033 Nobody went to games on Saturday afternoons back then? Weather may have been a factor with some of those games as well as the opponent.

QUOTE (The Mighty Mite @ Jul 28, 2017 -> 01:58 PM) That was probaby the fight when Walt Dropo beat the crap out of Enos Slaughter. It was...Slaughter walking back to the dugout with his jersey and undershirt ripped to shreds and his hat backwards is one of the most famous sports photo's of the 1950's. Getting back to the business story, the Sox TV numbers though are staggeringly bad even though fans seem excited about the rebuild. Remember they have to negotiate a new TV contract with someone after 2019. If the rebuild is showing promise they could get a good amount of money...if not? That's major trouble considering the deals other teams, including smaller market clubs, like Seattle, Arizona and St. Louis have received. For the Cubs it really doesn't matter since they are starting their own network after 2019 and since they don't figure to fall apart in the next two years they are going to be getting a LOT of money including from advertisers.

QUOTE (The Mighty Mite @ Jul 28, 2017 -> 01:38 PM) I remember a day in the early 60s at Wrigley where 5,000 was a large crowd for weekday game. Anyway that was the first satellite in space able to transmit TV to Europe, it was called Telstar and about 10 minutes before the transmission PA announcer Pat Pieper asked all fans in the park to move down to the lower box seats so It would look like the place was full. Bleacher fans stayed put to go along with the prank. Just last night I was going through some archived material (my summer project has been to organize all the stuff I have in printed form on the Sox in individual folders by season). I came across the front page of the Chicago Tribune sports section from June 14, 1957 it was the day after the huge "base-brawl" between the Yankees and Sox at Comiskey that had racial overtones, went for :30 minutes and saw five players ejected. Anyway on the bottom right side of the front page was a box with this headline: "Sox, Yanks draw 112,548...Giants, Cubs draw 8,518." Both teams had played a three game series.

QUOTE (Lillian @ Jul 27, 2017 -> 02:36 PM) This is the quote, from Fan Graphs' Dave Cameron, that stands out to me: "For these deals to work out as well as the White Sox hope, their player development system is going to have to take some raw materials and turn them into polished big leaguers". With this team's future completely invested in their farm system, if management doesn't make a concerted effort to put in place the right coaching staff, failing would be as much their responsibility, as it would be the failure of the prospects, themselves. I have no idea from where the help would come, or how feasible it is to acquire competent coaches and instructors, but that should be the goal. The front office should certainly have sufficient financial resources to dedicate toward that goal, as the team's payroll projects to be as low it has been, in a long time. Very, very, VERY true. You've got to be able to teach especially the fundamentals.

The better question to ask may be which Sox player WON'T be on the DL this season?

https://www.wsj.com/articles/for-the-white-...069920?mod=e2fb The biggest thing that caught my eye was this paragraph: "In Hahn’s ideal world, the White Sox might have gotten here sooner. He acknowledged that there have been other moments where he and Williams proposed a total rebuild, as the team heads toward its fifth straight losing season.

QUOTE (SonofaRoache @ Jul 26, 2017 -> 01:32 PM) Advertisers are going to spend their money on the Cubs, heck the score 670 booted the Sox and picked up the Cubs. Wait till you see what happens advertiser wise when the Cubs start their own TV Network. They'll suck all the air out of the room. (As well as $$$$$$$)

What's the over / under on him back on it in a week? LOL.

QUOTE (Special K @ Jul 26, 2017 -> 09:03 AM) While I disagree, I can see where he's coming from. It is conceivable that deals that make a competitor in your market better may not be best for your bottom line as far as losing fans, sales, etc. So why would you want to contribute to that? He's running a business. That's a true statement from a business sense, however it hasn't seem to bother the organization over basically the entire length of their ownership that the Sox are playing second fiddle in their own town. And they certainly had real chances to increase their share of their base in this area...when the bought the team and then started signing good players, when they opened the new park and of course, when they won the World Series. They never aggressively took on the Cubs (save for Brooks Boyer's brilliant ad campaign "Us vs. Them.") So why should that really matter now? I mean remember "we're Chicago's American League team..." repeated time and time again when they bought the franchise through the period when Eddie Einhorn was heavily involved. (As if Sox fans were going to support the Cubs and Cub fans were going to support the Sox.)

If I was Rick I'd try to expand the deal to include Gonzales and Melky to try to get a better prospect.

It's a good question in my opinion. Obviously he's got the stuff but he's inconsistent and can't stay healthy (which may be why he's inconsistent). To me he seems like another rushed Sox prospect who still needs a lot of work learning his trade. The good news is that for the next two years he can learn on the job...the downside long term is his agent. He's going to hit the free agent market and we'll see if the Sox will be willing to match what his agent is going to try to get for him.

So...this is what a win feels like? Especially nice when it comes against the Cubs. Don't stop now boys!

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Jul 20, 2017 -> 06:15 PM) When he does that, he isn't doing it for strategy. I think that is the disconnect here. To me he is trying to ingrain the skill into certain guys skill sets so that when they really do need it, they have the ability and count/situation are not something they are thinking about because they will have done it under all circumstances. Certainly possible given the circumstances. Some of these guys I suspect will be with the team in a few years and expected to make a contribution. Actually knowing how to execute the lost art of fundamentals can only help them and the team as a whole. If you have to learn how to do these things at the big league level (which leads to another question for another day) then learning in a rebuilding year would be the preferred way to go in my opinion.

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Jul 20, 2017 -> 04:15 PM) Gene Lamont came in for the 1992 season, and lost 1 more game than Torborg did in 1991 despite losing his starting SS for the season to injury, and then won the division the next 2 seasons. Torborg went to NY lost 90 games buyimg beer and pizza in 1992 and was canned with a 13-25 record in 1993. So? Torborg never wanted to go to New York that's one of the points I was making. Certain guys are right for certain organizations. I'd easily be willing to bet the Sox would have won with Jeff in 93 as well. Thinking about it here's two examples of how a manger can make a difference. Torborg moved Calderon who was a butcher in right field to left for 1990. Look up the video of the number of great catches he made that season including the last game at Comiskey Park LaRussa moving Fisk a power hitter into the #2 slot in 83' a bat control situation when he was struggling. How'd that turn out for ya? And a bad manager, a manager the players hate (cue: Terry Bevington) can destroy a team, talent or not. See: 1996 White Sox. OF COURSE you've got to have talent but talent alone often isn't enough. I have a feeling you know that as well as I do. Again you have your thoughts on this and I have mine. We'll have to agree to disagree as we usually do.

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Jul 20, 2017 -> 02:13 PM) Lefty Tanner set the record for consecutive last place finishes by a manager. He finished last three years in a row 84-86, don't think that is a record. Torborg was the right man for the right team at the right time in my opinion and it showed on the field. The Sox had the talent but it always takes a steady hand to move it in the right direction. Torborg took a team that was garbage in the first half of 89 and "suddenly" they had a winning record in the second half of that year. I guess that was all the players doing. (LOL) LaRussa was another guy who got it what with the team road parties where guys would talk baseball. I think you are absolutely devaluing the impact a manager can have on a team both on the field and off it...but you are entitled to your opinion. Baseball is not as "self-regulating" as you think especially with the amount of money some of these guys are making.

QUOTE (iamshack @ Jun 8, 2017 -> 04:12 PM) I think we've gotten to the point analytically where it's probably fair to say the impact these managers have on the psyches of their players, something which is entirely immeasurable, is probably far greater than the in-game strategy maneuvers. That is a terrific point. The best managers are really amateur psychiatrists. They have an ability to figure out what drives guys, what gets on their minds...things like that. Chuck Tanner was very good at this aspect and so was Jeff Torborg. In fact Jeff called me this morning and as we talked he told me a story about Lance Johnson. The Sox sent Lance back down in the spring of 1989 and Jeff said he was so upset he started crying. Jeff said he told him, 'let's go into my office...' Jeff said he knew immediately what was really bothering Johnson so he gave him his phone number and told him to call anytime something was bothering him or if he just wanted to talk. Jeff told me he knew that Johnson was worried that if he was sent back down to the minors nobody would care anymore and the organization would just forget about him. History shows the type of player Lance was and you never know how this small gesture by Torborg played a part in that as it helped him mentally. Another story Jeff told me a few years ago was right before the All Star Break in 89. Sox were in K.C. had a day off before opening up a series with the Royals. Jeff asked the team to have a short workout on the off day just to go over fundamentals and that if they did it he wouldn't ask for a workout the day before the season resumed so they could be with their families a little longer. So he gets to his office at Kauffman Stadium and sees a bunch of guys on the field working out, he went to his office to start working on lineup's for the series and after about an hour he went back out to the field expecting to see the guys all gone. Instead he found them actually playing a game like we used to do when we were kids (just lobbing pitches in to hitters). He was amazed but thought, 'OK let's see what we can do with this.' So he told me he called and ordered pizza's and some beer and had them in the clubhouse when the team got back inside. They ate and talked. When they came back after the break they won 11 of 12, had a winning record in the second half and had a fantastic 1990 season. Little things sometimes add up to really big things. You just wonder what could have been had Ron Schueler not insisted that he had to hire his own manager and forced Jeff out.

QUOTE (greg775 @ Jul 18, 2017 -> 11:57 PM) Answer this question. Are you happy Moncada is joining the White Sox? Yes or no. My answer: Yes (1-0 yes). Maybe. Not trying to evade the question. I don't know. There is no need to rush the kid as I stated earlier and for God's sake they better not be thinking of having him play 3rd base to replace Frazier. More any of the other short term infield stiffs there but leave this kid at 2nd base...he's got enough things to have to worry about. A new position doesn't need to be one of them (and yes I know he played a little there with the Red Sox last year. It affected him offensively.)

For Hahn to get all this potential talent is nine months is amazing. Kudos to him. No guarantees but no one can say that he isn't going full bore with this and demanding quality in return.

Wish he would have stayed down until September at the earliest but what's done is done. At least the kid won't have the pressure of a pennant race on his shoulders.

He gone?????

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Jul 16, 2017 -> 05:44 PM) If he pitches 75 innings this year and 100 innings next year then I'm not trading jack for him. Never said anything about limiting him next year. Assuming he's healthy it's a full go.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Jul 16, 2017 -> 04:13 PM) His inning have already been limited by being on the shelf for 3 months. Given the mystery surrounding his injury, I'd think the Sox want to be very careful with him for the rest of this season if for no other reason then to protect his future trade value (given who his agent is and that he'll be taking him to free agency...)