Lip Man 1

If they had expanded playoffs in the 50's and 60's the Sox are in 1955, 1957, 1959, 1963, 1964 and 1965. But as per the Sox "luck" they didn't. Despite averaging 94 wins in that three years stretch in the 60's they went nowhere. People today don't realize how damn good those clubs were then. Mark

Found this at another location and wanted to share it. This will be the 7th year in a row the White Sox have missed the postseason. Out of the 122 professional franchises in the 4 major North American sports, here are the only teams that now have longer postseason droughts than the White Sox: 1.) Buffalo Bills, 15 years 2.) Seattle Mariners, 14 years 3.) Oakland Raiders, 12 years 4.) Cleveland Browns, 12 years 5.) Miami Marlins, 12 years 6.) Minnesota Timberwolves, 11 years 7.) St. Louis Rams, 10 years 8.) Edmonton Oilers, 9 years 9.) Sacramento Kings, 9 years 10.) San Diego Padres, 9 years 11.) Houston Astros*, 9 years (still alive this year.) Solid company. And as yet another poster pointed out a lot of the teams on this list play in smaller markets than Chicago. The 3rd largest market in the U.S. This franchise is in as bad of a shape as the late 60's / mid 70's. Obviously that's not good. Mark

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Sep 30, 2015 -> 04:48 PM) While it will annoy me as much as you when they make no organizational changes, I have no problem with the radio and TV teams not changing as they have presumably little effect on the quality of product on the field. Unless the front office really is listening to Hawk's ideas on how to build a team. There are enough fans who think time has passed most of those guys by and refuse to listen / watch. That is part of the overall product produced by this organization. It all factors in. No it doesn't impact what happens on the field...it does impact what happens off it and that is part of the issues which the franchise refuses to improve. And again JR has the final call on broadcasters. There were folks in the organization pushing for Dave Willis at one time, they could never get JR to say yes so Dave went off to Tampa where he is very happy. Again JR values loyalty over a good product. The fact is Hawk is 73 years old and has lost his edge (as I broadcaster I know what this is...), Stone can't work with him, Farmer is a great color analyst but is brutal as a play by play guy and DJ is the nicest person on Earth. He's just not very good in the booth. These guys are the fans immediate connection to the franchise, having poor broadcasters hurts the overall marketability of things and God knows this franchise needs all the help they can get. Yet nothing changes. Save for bad baseball. Mark

QUOTE (The Ginger Kid @ Sep 30, 2015 -> 10:14 PM) If you're trading Q then trade Abreu, Robertson, Sale, Danks, Flowers, Lexi, Duke and that guy who supposedly is the DH. Start over with a BOATLOAD of young talent + Rodon and Fulmer as your key pitching pieces. And hire a manager who can work with young talent, who knows how to teach the game. Q, Sale and Abreu would bring you riches. Or do very little, hope for the best and be prepared for another season of below average and very frustrating baseball. Sox are going to do the latter of course. They have now reached the point where 'hope' is all they have. Mark

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Sep 30, 2015 -> 09:30 PM) From throwing way too many cutters... Hahn set the MLB record for worst trade deadline performance. Not dealing Shark. Keeping Robertson pointlessly when that money should have been invested into a starting position player. Not getting anything for Albers, Putnam, Petricka, Duke, etc. There were reports (some from this site as I recall) that Hahn wanted to deal, Kenny as usual wanted to 'go for it' and add pieces. A stalemate took place and nothing happened. Which if true is a prime example of why someone has to go...it just doesn't work having two people trying to run the show. Mark

Just the start of little to no change with an organization that has had three straight losing years, six out of nine and are becoming more and more irrelevant each day. Mark

Not his fault but the kid can't stay healthy. If he's not healthy, he can't play... simple as that. Mark

QUOTE (Chicago White Sox @ Sep 30, 2015 -> 06:09 AM) I'm sorry, but in what other industry does management come out and blame the fans for their inferior product? It's complete bulls*** to blame attendence for our lack of resources. Almost all successful organations had to invest in the quality of their product before building a strong customer base. Here we get the "I can't spend a dollar if I have 50 cents" crap. Any other company would have gone out of business a long time ago with that mindset, but since this is baseball us loyal fans have no choice but to accept management's shortcomings and support the team. However, those who simply view White Sox baseball as another form entertainment can weigh their alternatives and spend their limited disposal income elsewhere. And until our ownership group decides to commit their own resources (not just what the P&L allows) towards building a premier White Sox product, there is no reason to expect fan support from anything but the most hardcore of fans. Very well stated. Mark

WOO HOO! The Sox are better than last year. Ummmmm woo...hoo??? Mark

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Sep 29, 2015 -> 08:17 PM) Of course that is what you took from all of that. Please feel free to educate me then on what I was supposed to take from it. Seriously...I've just been here two months and have read enough of your comments to get a sense of your philosophy. It's the fans fault, they should pack the place and hope the Sox can figure out a way to spend that money and win. History shows this organization though had trouble spending any kind of money in a productive way more often then not. 2005 being the exception when they actually had less money for Kenny to play around with. Until the front office gets a badly needed shake up, it's just more of the same mediocrity at best regardless of if they draw 300,000 or 3 million for a season, Mark

QUOTE (soxfan2014 @ Sep 29, 2015 -> 08:57 PM) Guy can run, play defense and take a walk. I definitely would put him ahead of Avi. I haven't completely given up on Avi yet though. Would like to see him DH to get him out of the outfield and out of the 3-5 spots (hit him 6 or 7, hopefully a new 3B can hit in the middle of the order with Cabrera back in the 2-spot and Abreu third). If the Sox change the staff, maybe...if the Sox keep the same staff (and Robin tonight told the media he hopes the entire staff returns for 2016 LOL) he'll be a fourth outfielder. Mark

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Sep 29, 2015 -> 06:48 PM) I actually laughed out loud at that statement. I am not quite sure what an economist would do with financial statements, but it would be entertaining to watch. Also the idea of demanding that a sports franchise should have to be subject to an audit just for the sake of the fans is laugh out loud funny. I won't even get into the false dichotomy of being worth a lot of money meaning that you automatically have the ability to spend it on something else. My point is there is plenty of evidence showing the Sox could actually spend a lot more money if they wanted to both at the major league level and the minor league system. I've heard from two individuals over the years with connections to the Sox Board of Directors. They have told me on separate occasions the Sox haven't lost money in years. But feel free to keep blaming the fans who pays the freight instead of the millionairs with all the financial advantages. That's your choice and I laugh out loud at anyone who takes that approach. Mark

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Sep 29, 2015 -> 01:07 PM) Again, take Edwin Jackson from the Cubs. They make a mistake, no big deal, they just go out and sign Jon Lester instead. For us, John Danks arm falls off and we hope he can rebuild his value enough to be able to deal him without losing too much more money. For the White Sox historically it has been EITHER fund the farm system OR add players to the major league team. For the Sox to fund the minors at that sort of level, it requires less money spent at the major league level. Teams with higher resources do both. And who is to say what those resource limits are? Until an independent economist gets to take a look at Sox finances we'll never know what they could or could not do. Circumstantial evidence over a number of years (to go along with the revenue being generated by MLB) points to the possibility of the Sox being able to spend more and do both if they chose to. It was like when Veeck owned the team the second time, conventional thinking was he had no money. That was far from the truth, you look at the names on the Sox Board of Directors under Veeck and you found some of the richest people in America like the guy who owned Pizer Chemicals. It was a matter if pride with Veeck that he refused to go back and ask them for more money and promised them a profit every season. The reality was the Sox could have spent like the Yankees if they wanted to...they chose not to do so. I get the sense that at times that same philosophy was in place with the Sox and may still be. Just don't know for sure. But I go back to my original point. Given the tax payer funded stadium, given the lease advantages from the state, given the improvements made to the ballpark (and not by JR's money) the White Sox have the first, second, third obligation to field a good competitive club on a consistent basis BEFORE having the right (or the gall) to call out their fan base in any way shape or form. And that goes for their supporters wherever they may be. The ownership group has done some very good things...they've also done some really stupid things which have put them in the position they are in. The fans didn't sign Adam LaRoche, the fans didn't trade for Nick Swisher, the fans didn't sign Adam Dunn just to name a few examples or give a big contract to a stiff like Jeff Keppinger. That was ownership / front office. Period. Just my opinion. Mark

LDF: The fact that the Sox basically were not able to be seen by Chicagoans when they first moved to WFLD (because of the technical issues as well as older TV sets not getting the channel without a converter box) and then SportsVision for the 80's meant generations of kids grew up as Cub fans because that's basically all they could get. It was a major decision that badly impacted the franchise in my opinion. Mark

QUOTE (flavum @ Sep 29, 2015 -> 10:19 AM) I'm going to guess if you're on this site regularly, it means you're a huge White Sox fan, and you just want them to make better decisions that will lead them to more wins and sustained success. The frustration of White Sox fans is completely warranted and valid. If anyone here doesn't have something critical of the White Sox organization, then you're fooling yourself. Until they make some more organizational moves, they're not going to win and they'll get exactly what they deserve at the box office and lower tv/radio ratings. It's all on the organization, not the consumers. EXACTLY!!!!!!!!! You go to a bad restaurant you are under no obligation to return if the meal stinks. The White Sox are a business yes, but not like the corner hardware store or the local grocery. They are also a public trust and Eddie Einhorn was quoted directly as using that phrase in the forward to Rich Lindberg's White Sox encyclopedia. That means those owners also have an obligation, it's not all on the fan base. That's a ludicrous idea. The White Sox franchise historically has been the victim of some things that have been outside of their control (the perception of the neighborhood, the Tribune Company buying the Cubs with the built in media ties in place) but they have also been responsible for shooting themselves in the foot on many occasions. (leaving WGN in 1967, SportsVision, threatening to move and basically extorting a new stadium on the taxpayer's dime, the "White Flag Trade" to name a few.) For such smart businessmen who put themselves into position to own a pro sports franchise, they have made some incredibly short signed decisions over the decades. And that goes back to Charles Comiskey. Sorry, I get really pissed off when anyone places the blame completely on the fan base. I remember the passage from the book Lords of the Realm by John Helyar where it was asked how the Dodgers could draw so many people year after year. The answer from the Dodgers person he spoke with was, "because we kiss the fans asses..." If blame is going to be placed for the Sox situation, yes the fans could do more but the major obligation by FAR lies with ownership to give them a reason to come out (and having remarks made at least four times just this year by Cooper and Williams insulting said fan base comes straight out of "stupid business tactics 101). Mark

QUOTE (Hatchetman @ Sep 29, 2015 -> 10:01 AM) The team has won 90 games only 6 times in the 35 years JR's been in charge. In those years it takes everybody by surprise and its all over before they realize what happened. Then its back to mediocrity. Historically that's a pretty accurate description. Mark

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Sep 29, 2015 -> 08:17 AM) But I thought winning was all that mattered? In my opinion its certainly the most important aspect especially with the Sox...but to claim that it's "all" (as in 100%) that matters in the overall health of a franchise is being myopic. Mark

From Tuesday's Sun-Times: http://chicago.suntimes.com/baseball/7/71/...-sox-nowhere-go Mark

QUOTE (ewokpelts @ Sep 28, 2015 -> 03:45 PM) the sox had two of their best attended years ever when the Dan Ryan was completely shut down. And 2007 they lost 90 games! The red line project had little impact in 2013 as the green line station served all riders from the red line. And the sox reduced parking fees as a buffer. Your argument is invalid. Possibly. All I know is what I read on various sites and the expressways situation and the el stops are brought up on a regular basis. Take it for what it's worth. And that doesn't invalidate the second part of the comment, making the playoffs more often than once every seven seasons. Mark

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Sep 28, 2015 -> 11:59 AM) Why is that a detriment to the Sox, but not the Cubs? Have never been to Wrigley Field (literally) so I don't know what the neighborhood is like. Have heard it's more young, upscale, yuppie-like. I do know that historically the Sox have been fighting perceptions about the area since the social unrest of the 1960's. That's unfair to be sure but perception becomes reality in the mind of the public over time and that's something of a reality for the Sox. I personally know of many Sox fans who are older who simply refuse to go into the area around U.S. Cellular Field. Mark

QUOTE (Jake @ Sep 28, 2015 -> 11:39 AM) I think one of the biggest big picture limitations the Sox have is the location of their ballpark. It doesn't make success impossible by any stretch, but I think it is a big part of the reason that the baseline for attendance is so low. The location does have something of an impact to be sure. The expressways seem to constantly have repairs being done to them. Can't remember much of a time period when every thing was always open for traveling on. It does force fans to make a choice at times. Then you had the closings of some el-stops and construction on them too. However there's nothing that can be done about moving the stadium not at this point anyway. Which means the other option to draw fans is to consistently win. That doesn't mean making the playoffs every single season (as some have alluded to) but you certainly have to make it more often than once every seven years (which is the 'success' rate for this ownership group, five times in almost 35 years) Mark

QUOTE (captain54 @ Sep 28, 2015 -> 09:04 AM) I think bottom line, what is keeping the fans away and what will continue to keep the fans away is the staid, unmoving, inability to change the approach and higher level personnel year after year, despite the same crappy results.. The Sox are 67 games and counting under .500 since late 2012, a one game improvement so far from 2014, and yet.. chance are high that the same bunch of mopes in the front office, Cooper, Ventura, etc. will all be back.. it just shows a lack of progressive thinking and stubbornness to stick to an approach that isn't working… and they wonder why people don't show up Well said. The Sox simply refuse to accept change as a needed part of any organization. I'm not advocating change for changes sake or constant change (which leads to constant chaos) but you have to be willing to admit when things aren't working, when a philosophy (of rebuilding while contending) simply doesn't achieve what you want and move on. That and the fact that to me there is a group mindset on looking at the problems in the same vein, which complicates things. (Not blaming those folks, that's human nature when the same people have been together for so long.) Mark

QUOTE (Chet Kincaid @ Sep 27, 2015 -> 08:58 AM) You can't change the philosophy of the White Sox without changing ownership... I don't care who you bring in to run the team. Agree completely. Mark

24th time the Sox held an opponent to three runs or less...and lost. We suck, period. Oh welcome to another losing season. Ain't life grand! LOL. Mark

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Sep 25, 2015 -> 11:37 AM) Kane and Toews are not a small part of the picture. They are the freaking franchise. They certainly are a large part but two guys alone can't win championships either regardless of how great they are. Even MJ and Scottie needed some help. Mark