Lip Man 1

QUOTE (OmarComing25 @ Oct 15, 2015 -> 09:19 PM) No one disagrees that Maddon is a better manager, we're just saying it wouldn't move the needle that much if we don't get better players. I think a good team, a good organization has both. A good manager with a good support staff AND good players. At this point in time, in my opinion, the Sox have a poor manager, at best mediocre help for coaches and very, very little talent. The talent they do have in some areas is very good but it's simply not enough. This is a top heavy team in the sense that you have maybe 6-8 pretty good players who could make just about every MLB team...but the rest of the roster is borderline at best. Many (most?) of them wouldn't even be on the bench for a playoff team. This isn't one or the other in my book. You need both areas to win. Mark

QUOTE (Middle Buffalo @ Oct 15, 2015 -> 06:14 PM) Good read. The Chicago media is basically acts as a free marketing department for the Cubs. I listen to podcasts at work, and I had to stop listening to the local Chicago ESPN ones because it was the summer of Cubs. I looked at one twenty day stretch in July, and Jesse Rodgers or a Cub guest was on C&J 15 out of 20 shows. In the same period, Doug Padilla (their Sox beat guy) was on 5 times. At the time, the records of both teams were pretty close. The media disparity is a huge factor in the difference in fan bases. I know some people don't believe that, but I look at it like any advertising. Have a message and repeat it. The Chicago media is largely pro-Cubs, so they are covered in a positive manner. I recently heard Bruce Levine on WSCR, and they asked him a question about the Sox going forward. He gave a sarcastic reply about the new video boards solving their problems. He could hardly contain his joy when the Cubs added theirs. I'd love to see someone like Mark Cuban own the Sox. Bat the very least, they need a Rocky Wirtz like situation to revitalize the Sox. I appreciate JR, but he's exceedingly arrogant, and that's a problem for the organization. I think it's pretty clear especially now how many pro Cub supporters are in the Chicago media. Gonzales and Cowley both confirmed this in part II of the original story. I don't have a problem with that as long as it doesn't spill over into the way those people cover things but unfortunately it does and that violates every journalistic / broadcasting rule out there. "Back in the Day" newspapers in particular used to either hire people from out of town or they'd rotate the beat writers at the All Star Break. The guy who started the season with the Cubs would be switched to the Sox beat and visa versa. They don't do that anymore. Mark

QUOTE (Thad Bosley @ Oct 15, 2015 -> 05:04 PM) I'll take Option C, which you didn't offer up but I'm taking it anyway, which is to have that wonderful WS championship experience of '05, AND take advantage of the new playoff system of recent years and maybe have had 2-3 more playoff appearances since '05 as well. Now I'm not greedy, mind you - I'm not saying I expected 2-3 more WS championships. That would, of course, be silly. But just step into that postseason more frequently than we have so we can have some freakin' FUN, for chrissakes. It is NOT fun to have to watch as many meaningless games in our empty ballpark in September and then NONE in October like we've had to do for practically the last decade. So it's not an either/or proposition, the Sox' experience of the past decade vs. that of the Tigers. I'll take the '05 experience, with just a little more white sock waving opportunities in October than we've been provided in the last decade. I don't think that's too much to ask! Well said. Mark

QUOTE (BigFinn @ Oct 15, 2015 -> 12:50 PM) When we think about how the Cardinals "don't rebuild, they just reload," how much of that reload is based on great scouting and player development and how much of it is based on PEDs? In the early 2000's, the Sox played clean while the rest of the league played dirty. Then MLB decided to clean up its act, and, next thing you know, the White Sox are World Series champs. Case in point, Yadier Molina was supposedly out for the NLDS, and yet he started games 1, 2, and 3. I find that fishy. I don't mind if the Sox are losing, if they are losing clean and the other teams are cheating. I would be seriously pissed if our guys are cheating, too, and still losing! It's easy to become cynical and say that everybody cheats, but Herm Schneider rules that clubhouse with an iron fist. I think he would know if a player is cheating, and I think he would "encourage" the club to get rid of him - see Swisher, Nick. Anything is possible but I think it would be very hard to do and get away with (just ask Bartolo Colon to cite one example or Alex Rodriguez). Penalties are becoming much tougher, guys are getting to an extent stigmatized. Honestly I don't think many guys at the big league level are willing to risk it now. The Cardinals are the model major league franchise especially in terms of scouting and developing kids. Mark

QUOTE (MindGame2004 @ Oct 15, 2015 -> 10:10 AM) Again, I said, does keeping Sale or trading him get you closer to winning a Championship? That's for this brilliant brass to decide. Truthfully, if they did trade Sale, they'd be likely to screw it up and get a Greinke type of return. It's Chris Sale. You dangle the carrot and see what you get offered. If it isn't enough, say no. If this were a smart front office, they could probably rob somebody, but they're not so they probably won't. If you do it right, with his age/talent/contract you could get a ton of value back in return and start moving toward being good again. And no, it's ridiculous to suggest I love when the Sox lose. I know I'm a new poster, but have I been out of line so far this morning to warrant that kind of remark? Mind: You simply have to get used to it from certain individuals unfortunately. Mark

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Oct 15, 2015 -> 08:04 AM) If he can't stay healthy, why would anyone else value him? As a throw in as part of a larger deal depending on what the pieces are. Mark

QUOTE (BigHurt3515 @ Oct 14, 2015 -> 10:35 PM) What are we going to do with Micah and Sanchez? Are we going to find another 2B or who is going to take that job? If the offense improves you keep Sanchez at second who appears to be solid defensively and God knows the Sox need someone who can catch the baseball regularly. As far as Johnson, it looks like he can't stay healthy, if he can't stay healthy he doesn't do anybody any good. May have to consider including him in a deal. mark

Folks: Back in 2010 I took a month to research, conduct interviews both by phone and in person and tried to put into context the relationship the White Sox have had with the media in general and specifically to the point in Chicago. It was a lot of work but I'm really proud of the way these stories turned out. Given how it appears the relationship is going to change again (and not for the good of the Sox) I thought some of you may want to read these to get a historical sense of what has happened in the past. Again these were written and published in September 2010. I hope you'll enjoy reading them but keep in mind these are LONG stories. http://www.whitesoxinteractive.com/rwas/in...y=2&id=4060 http://www.whitesoxinteractive.com/rwas/in...y=2&id=4066 Mark

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Oct 14, 2015 -> 09:37 AM) Sox fans take pride in emptying the stadium when the team sucks because we care more about pure baseball than babes bedecked in bedazzling bikinis blitzing back beers before Bryant bats. Bingo right on the money. Mark

I agree with some of the points being made including regarding the Cubs but...you also have to consider this. In 35 years the Cubs have made the playoffs now, what eight times? That's not good but it's a lot better than the Sox' five times in that same span. If the Cubs are bad historically (and they are) what does that stat say about the Sox franchise? Just wondering. Mark

Well at least Southside is consistent in his beliefs. I have to give him that. I think from a historical perspective he's dead wrong but he's entitled to his opinion of blaming completely White Sox fans for the state of the franchise particularly the past nine years. Mark

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Oct 14, 2015 -> 06:07 AM) Royals = 3 decades of not winning Astros = hadn't made the playoffs in longer than the White Sox including 3 straight years of 100+ losses and literally 0 rated broadcasts, and rated one of the absolute worst franchises in sports (117 of 132 in the rankings last year, that we are 85th in this year) Cubs = Fans still showing up, allowing them to not only completely rebuild, but also to still sign top free agents Cub attendance took a big hit the past few years remember which led to the drive to bring in Theo, completely gut the franchise and get to where they are today. Their were a lot, ALOT of empty seats being shown on TV at Wrigley Field. Cub fans were getting fed up and pissed off. Columns were written about it in both the Sun-Times and Tribune. Just trying to be accurate. And just last year the Royals manager called out his fan base for not showing up with the Royals winning. Three decades of losing will do that to a fan base who has to be convinced the season isn't a mirage. Sounds a lot like things on the South Side no? (example is 2000 after four losing seasons in five years time...) Mark

QUOTE (BlackSox13 @ Oct 13, 2015 -> 10:52 PM) https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1GZ9...pub?output=html According BP, the Sox have 88.7M committed to 10 players and 1 of those 10 is Alexei and his 1M buyout so its really 88.7M for 9 players + buyout and if the Sox keep Alexei the number jumps to 97.7M for all 10. Those numbers do not include arbitration eligible players in Jones, Putnam, Avi, Jennings and Flowers nor do they include pre-arb player salaries or potential FA signings. Depending on what the Sox do with Alexei they have between 30-40M to fill out 14 or 15 spots on the 25 man roster if they go with the same payroll as '15 (118.6M). Just a guess but I would imagine the arbitration players could easily add up to 10M and then factor in (500k+) for each pre-arb player. Let's say the Sox buyout Alexei for more flexibility. Add these pre-arb players at 500k+ each to the 88.7 committed to 9 players. EJ Sanchez Olt Saladino Micah Petricka Shuck Rodon Thompson Brantly ( replaces Soto ) These players add 5M+ to the 88.7 committed and rounds out close enough to call it 94MM for 19 players. Add in arbitration players in Jones, Putnam, Avi, Jennings and Flowers at an approximate 10M brings the total to 104M for 24 players which leaves room for one FA signing at 15M assuming JR does not raise the payroll, which he certainly could, who knows at this point. All I'm doing here is show where the Sox are at with what they currently have both in players and salaries. It's easy to say trade this player for that player or sign this player but without raising the payroll the Sox only have approximately 15M to play with. Theres a few arbitration players they could cut bait with like Avi and Jennings but it won't make a huge difference although every bit helps when things are this tight. If the Sox were to cut bait on Avi and Jennings, they could have enough left over to sign a few free agents, for instance, like Parra and Zobrist. The payroll would be about the same as it was this past season. I'm not a fan of signing Zobrist, just using him as an example. I'm not trying to stir up the payroll debate, just trying to help put things in perspective. After seeing the contracts of Sale and Q, there's no f***ing way I trade them because their cheap contracts are the reason why the Sox have been able to sign other players. GO WHITE SOX! You put things into perspective and make me even more sure the Sox are going nowhere fast in 2016. The talent simply IS NOT there and they have no real solution to get the many areas solved under the circumstances. They are offering hope for next year, that's all (and sometimes that works although I would say not very often...talent wins out usually.) Mark

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Oct 13, 2015 -> 07:03 PM) There's another way of thinking about it. Here in China, the government has been hyping the "investment" of a home and buying into the stock market for the past 12 months in order to drive economic growth back up. When the people who invested in the stock market lost 20-40% of their money and realized the government couldn't actually control the market and guarantee positive or upward results, they quickly became discouraged and refused to put in any more money, to the point where the government had to create wealth funds to buy down and out companies in order to keep them from cratering further. It's all about "trust." Whether you want to fault the White Sox fans or ownership, the fact of the matter is that the relationship is close to frayed if not broken in many cases. It doesn't matter how many good moves you made on "paper" when the results speak for themselves. As we always say they're no "attendance trophy" with the Cubs, there's also no "best off-season" trophy, either. And, of course, a lot of the moves that the White Sox, Padres and Red Sox made (three of the most active teams) blew up completely in their faces. Is that the fault of the fans, or Robin Ventura, or Buddy Bell, or a series of bad trades/acquisitions....lack of investment in Latin America until the last 2-3 seasons, lack of spending on draft/scouting/player development? Hahn? KW? Dave Wilder? White Flag? Union busting and collusion by JR dating back to the strike? Well, it doesn't really matter at this point. What does matter is that the majority of fans no longer trust the front office to create/develop/implement a winning and/or entertaining product, and that, when you look at opportunity cost or cost/benefit analysis, it's simply not worth it for many fans and their families to attend White Sox games. Luckily for the White Sox, they can survive because of the new media deals as well as the favorable lease agreement, but it's getting pretty close to the point where that's all they will be doing if they don't get to the playoffs or at least compete until the final week of the season in 2017. VERY WELL DONE. Especially the last part. Don't see why this is so hard for some to understand. Mark

QUOTE (SouthSideSale @ Oct 13, 2015 -> 07:56 PM) I'm predicting a busy offseason because they have to have one. I expect a new 3B, SP, C and an impact bat. Preferably RF. They have a choice, they can stand pat in part because of possible financial concerns. JR still holds the purse strings remember not Kenny nor Rick. Financial concerns really shouldn't be an issue they are making money but maybe not enough to satisfy some people...who knows for sure. Mark

QUOTE (OmarComing25 @ Oct 13, 2015 -> 07:14 PM) 30 really isn't that old, the top 3 offenses in the MLB this year (Jays, Yankees, Rangers) were littered with position players 30 or older. The Mets led the NL in runs scored in the second half and their offense is similarly old. Seemed to work just fine for those teams. It's not the age that is the problem. Just curious Omar what you think the problem is? Mark

QUOTE (Baron @ Oct 13, 2015 -> 06:00 PM) He's getting his chance. He should(key word) have one more year to show us. It's the last year of his 3 year plan. Time for some results. Well based on Kenny's comments in June 2015 next season (2016)is actually year two of the "three year plan / window..." (since the Sox never explained what exactly the plan is, to have a winning record? to get to the playoffs?? to get to the World Series??? I have no idea who is telling the truth. Mark

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Oct 13, 2015 -> 06:19 PM) Loyal fans mean money when things aren't good. Wouldn't that be nice now. Loyalty is a two way street especially when you are dealing with a public trust. Baseball like business is a results orientated business. The results the last nine years speak for themselves. With MLB a nine billion dollar industry right now that's really the only thing the Sox don't have to worry about. They are making money rest easy on that score. I have this mental image of JR (like Nero) fiddling while the Sox (like Rome) are burning to the ground... Not a pleseant image on many levels. Mark

QUOTE (Lillian @ Oct 13, 2015 -> 02:26 PM) The off season last year clearly seemed to consist of a prioritized check list, which Hahn proceeded to check off. Unfortunately, he made a couple of bad choices. Moreover, unless you intend to meet every objective, with unlimited resources, wouldn't that almost necessitate that you prioritize? They filled some areas but the point I was trying to make was that it wasn't Hahn saying..."OK first thing we get a DH..." until then we don't do anything. "Second thing we get a starting pitcher..." etc. There is fluidity to an off season plan since no team has the power to control everything, get exactly what they want, when they want and in the order that they want. I'm sure this off season Kenny will tell Hahn what he expects and then we'll see if it happens or not. Mark

QUOTE (raBBit @ Oct 13, 2015 -> 03:26 PM) Hahn is a modern mind. Let him work. I agree he deserves his chance. Unfortunately until Kenny goes far away it's not happening (i.e. Kenny's public comments to the media this June which I found condescending and arrogant towards Hahn) Mark

QUOTE (raBBit @ Oct 13, 2015 -> 03:05 PM) Danks and LaRoche aren't currently FA's and I am aware of that, obvious typo there. My bad. I could have sworn that it was reported the Sox offered Samardzija a contract. Regardless, at face value, they were intent on at least vying for his services. He was a guy penned for a hundred million dollar contract prior to this season so they were aware of the expenditure's nature and that they had the ability to extend as much. I would have to see the offseason before I guessed on attendance but there are reasons to believe attendance will go down. I am not going to go into this quasi-accounting where year X's profit supposedly equals the succeeding year's maximum increase for operating cost. Nor am I going to take the Forbes numbers with any credence. The Sox have one of the most drastic capital/labor splits in baseball. We can't look at the numbers from 2011 and compare them to 2015 as if they are equal. You have to consider in 2011, after attendance went down 2007, 2008, 2009 and 2010. In 2011, the Sox had their highest payroll ever at 128 million. 128 million in 2015 dollars is much less than 128 in 2015. When you factor in inflation, revenue sharing, national/local TV deals the average payroll increase significantly and steadily annually. Despite the payrolls and average player salary growing tremendously, the players share of revenue has decreased 33% over the last thirteen years. In the largest two year growth ever, the average MLB player salary is up to 4.2 million for the 2015 season. That's a 16.4% growth rate over two years on the average player salary. Despite that, players got a lesser share of revenue in both years! Owners are raking in the money. This is a huge issue for the MLBPA with the CBA expiring after 2016. It's not a matter of whether the Sox have the money to spend, it's a matter of whether the Sox choose to spend the money and to what extent. I don't remember seeing anything specific but I thought I read around mid season where Hahn was quoted as saying along the lines that the Sox wanted to keep Shark and talked but the agent said he was going through the free agent process. He was quoted directly on that. I don't think it ever actually got to the point where a formal offer was made. Again that's just from memory. Mark

QUOTE (raBBit @ Oct 13, 2015 -> 02:36 PM) What exactly have they tried to do? 1st point: They've never signed a free agent over 68 million. I suggest one big signing so you're offbase there. 2nd point: Who have they sign that is like Steve Pearce? I guess Andruw Jones after '09 would be similar despite difference in name value but Jones worked out well so why complain about that? 3rd point: If you're referring to Q, Sox have never sold high on a pitcher of his pedigree like I would be open to considering. Buehrle was kept for sentimental reasons which I agreed with. I wanted them to trade Danks and Floyd, they never did it. They got zero value for both of them. 4th point: The Sox have no presence in South America. They were screwed by Kenny's put that retarded the process all the way up to a few years ago. They considered ditching investing in the South American market as a whole. So I am not trying to be sarcastic or snide when I ask you what exactly they have been doing the last nine years that would be a parallel to my post? The situation the Sox find themselves in is a result of Kenny Williams' complete disregard for the CBA and the inability to produce position players. If the Sox correct themselves there, which I think Hahn can do, they will be in a better position. My plan is for the immediate future. What they've done the last nine years that is comparable to your points in my opinion is to try to toe the middle line between tearing it down to the foundation and starting over or going for it regardless of cost. That was what I was trying to say. I continue to believe that the 'middle ground' is like the Twilight Zone, just keep spinning wheels and hoping for success. Nothing against your points per se, they are solid. I just think trying to "rebuild while contending" simply does not work and I want the Sox to fully commit to go one way or the other and see what happens. The don't appear to have the money or the desire to sign a bunch of top level free agents (assuming they are even available) and they seem to be deathly afraid of tearing it all down and starting over. Bottom line, I don't think they know what they want to do or can do and are trying to go someplace in the middle...which again according to the last nine years does not work. Mark

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Oct 13, 2015 -> 02:52 PM) Sure, load up the bandwagon. Bandwagon fans means more money for the franchise to spend (hopefully) at least part of it on getting good players to keep coming in and continuing winning baseball. Mark

Surprised they are that high given the last nine years from falling attendance, to winning seasons to TV ratings. Mark

QUOTE (raBBit @ Oct 13, 2015 -> 02:12 PM) I think some people want the Sox to tear it down and get a bunch of young guys. Others want the Sox to acquire a bunch of veterans through FA. I prefer that the Sox do a little bit of both. 1.) One big expenditure. Preferably a guy who doesn't have a QO attached. For the right price, I think you can make an exception for a guy like Justin Upton who the FO covets. Seems like a lot of people are down on him so if you could get him for 6/120ish that's a nice deal for a guy who's averaged almost 4 WAR/year that past five years. 2.) Steve Pearce. He had a .233 BABIP which is 7th worst for players who had 300 PAs. His ISO is still over .200. You sign him cheapish to be the RH side of the DH platoon with LaRoche. He played at least 100 innings at 1B, OF and 2B for the Orioles last year. Give him a role in a position he should succeed in (hitting LHP) and if he excels there is more opportunity available. If his BABIP normalizes, which I suspect it will, he can be a great pick up. At the very least he's a cheap power option who cold hit 20HRs. 3.) Trade pitching for some YOUTH on the offense. If it's Q that goes, get multiple pieces that can step in and potentially join the core of Abreu/Eaton. 4.) Have an international presence. There is a big opportunity for the July 2 International period this year. Do something the team has never done and blow past the limits. Look to Cuba and Asia. Isn't that what they have been trying to do for the last nine years? Not trying to be snide or sarcastic but this sounds like more of the same that hasn't worked. Commit to a plan and stay there come hell or high water. I'd prefer a tear down but at this point I'll take that or a complete 'go for it' charge regardless of how much it costs. Mark