Lip Man 1

In 2011 Dunn only hit 11 home runs with 42 RBI’s and had a batting average of .159. It was literally one of the worst seasons in 100 years of MLB according to the metrics and stats.

I'll only comment on Fisk. He played from 1981 through 1993 with the Sox...how many years did you expect him to play? 25? He was treated very badly by JR and the organization but honestly as a player he was done.

I'm not comparing anyone to him you are... one can make the case that all of the individuals being discussed have major flaws and issues which are hurting the organization. But given the organization itself, that shouldn't be a surprise to anybody should it?

All I can tell you, is others have told me, including those in the organization, that his attitude actually drove away businesses interested in the Sox. And given that the Sox are a public trust and rely a lot on fan interest and businesses it's a strange response from you saying that those in charge shouldn't be "nice." I'd think especially for someone like Gallas, who's job was public and media relations to a great extent, that one of the requirements would be to be personable and professional.

From MLB.com today: Dylan Cease, White Sox The most likely of this group to be moved, Cease has already drawn interest from several teams, and sources say they expect the White Sox to move their ace this offseason. Unlike Burnes (and Shane Bieber, who we’ll get to shortly), Cease is under club control for two more seasons, making him a more attractive – and costly – trade option. Chicago surely noted that the Dodgers gave up a former Top 100 prospect in righty Ryan Pepiot and young slugging outfielder Jonny DeLuca in exchange for Glasnow and veteran outfielder Manuel Margot, though that deal was contingent upon Glasnow agreeing to an extension. Two years of Cease should bring back a nice return for the White Sox. Cease is coming off of a subpar year by his standards, as he went 7-9 with a 4.58 ERA in 33 starts (177 innings). But he’s been healthy and averaged 176 innings per season since 2021, something appealing to teams around the league. Of course, the Yamamoto suitors aren’t the only ones trying to trade for rotation help. Smaller-market teams such as the Reds and Orioles are looking to add starting pitching and have the prospect capital to make such a deal, but the White Sox aren’t likely to move Cease until Yamamoto (and possibly Blake Snell) are off the market.

I respectfully disagree, my interactions with Gallas and from what I was told by others was that he was taciturn, gruff and insulted people and businesses left and right. He fit right in with JR. As far as the iconic uniforms that was the doing of Jeff Torborg who told me of a conversation he directly had with JR about them. He said he told JR the only team that could wear the iconic "Dodger-script" style uniforms (a la 1986-1990) were the Dodgers themselves and the Sox had to change. Jeff said JR told him, "Well I designed those..." It was an awkward moment to say the least. But Torborg convinced him the pin stripe uniform and the Old English Sox logo on the front were identified by the fan base from the good days (1951-1963) so the change was finally made.

The only way this franchise doesn't cede this season is if every other team in the division/league forfeits. That's not going to happen and the Sox aren't going to be anywhere close to worth a damn in 2024 whether Eloy is around or not. If a good offer comes along ship his lazy, injury-prone ass out the door.

December 17, 1914 - Clarence “Pants” Rowland was named White Sox manager. He was an unknown who never managed above Class B and never won anything but would guide the club to a 100-win season, the most ever by the franchise, and the World Series title in 1917. December 17, 1975 - Under new owner Bill Veeck, the Sox went retro with the naming of former manager Paul Richards to become the new field manager replacing Chuck Tanner. Richards was the man who turned around the franchise in 1951. He was one of the smartest baseball men in the game, but it had been 15 years since he was involved in the day-to-day operations of a franchise. Apparently, he didn’t even really want the job, agreeing to do it only as a favor to Veeck. He would last one season. Years later Tanner would reveal that Richards asked him to stay on as his third base coach with the promise of getting the manager’s job again in 1977 but Tanner instead took a three year offer from the A’s. December 17, 2004 - The Sox claimed pitcher Bobby Jenks on waivers from the Angels. Jenks had a reputation as a reckless individual who wanted to party more than play baseball. Somehow the Sox found a way to reach him and he proved a God-send down the stretch in 2005 with six saves, then added four more saves in the run to the World Series title. He then followed it up with 41 saves in 2006, 40 in 2007 and turned into one of the top closers in the game by 2008. He had 173 saves in his White Sox career.

Interesting column: https://soxmachine.com/2023/12/the-white-sox-need-a-soxfest-more-than-fans-need-a-soxfest/

Who made any comparison about why they won? I certainly didn't. Pitching played a very large part in the success...but so did an offense that didn't need three home runs a game to win. Say the word...balance...pitching, hitting, fielding AND some actually baseball smarts and knowledge of fundamentals.

Hard to imagine given JR's constraints that things are going to get much better on the talent front.

They had the best balanced offense I could remember...among the top quarter of the league in home runs, stolen bases, sacrifice bunts, infield hits and sacrifice flies. They could beat you with a blast, a bloop or a bunt.

Given all the other good players going to other teams it turns your stomach to see the s%*#, flotsam and jetsam the Sox are scraping the bottom of the barrel for. Yet JR thinks they are going to contend? ?

Looks like they are hoping to televise MLB games this upcoming season: https://awfulannouncing.com/sinclair/bally-sports-2024-mlb-games-bankruptcy.html

Chuck Comiskey was the biggest single shareholder. It was Veeck's group that owned 54% of the team after the sale. I made the correction.

I'll have to check on this but I think you are correct!

Arrogance that they thought they knew better than everyone else, dysfunction in the front office and an unwillingness by JR to finish the rebuilding job via acquiring additional talent.

December 15, 1960 - Sox owner Bill Veeck made up for some of his deals after the 1959 season by getting pitchers Juan Pizarro and Cal McLish from the Reds for infielder Gene Freese. Manager Al Lopez and pitching coach Ray Berres had their eyes on Pizarro for a few years but Milwaukee refused to deal him to the Sox. Veeck therefore got his friend Bill DeWitt of Cincinnati to swing a deal and then to ship Pizarro to the South Side. Pizarro was an enigmatic, moody pitcher but when he got on the mound, he was all business. Possessor of a blazing fastball, the left hander had four seasons of double figure wins, among them 16 in 1963 and 19 in 1964. He totaled 75 White Sox wins between 1961 and 1966 and was a two-time All-Star selection pitching a scoreless inning in the 1963 contest. December 15, 1961 - It was the end of 61 years of Comiskey family ownership of the White Sox, as Chuck Comiskey sold his 46 per cent interest in the team to a group of 11 investors, headed by insurance executive William Bartholomay and entertainer Danny Thomas. Chuck had made two major miscalculations in his quest to regain his ‘birthright’ ownership of the White Sox. The first came in the later 1950s, when he lowballed his sister Dorothy; Dorothy had decided to sell her 46 per cent of the club to Chuck, but instead sold to Bill Veeck once Chuck’s insulting offer came across her desk. (Veeck, in declining health, would own the White Sox for only two years, selling out to Arthur and John Allyn.) The second was Chuck compromising his own 46 per cent share of the White Sox — he remained the biggest single shareholder in the team through 1961 — by selling out. Chuck was confident that he could broker a purchase of the near-half of the White Sox that the Allyn’s had purchased from Veeck. Allyn’s near-half of the White Sox would make the Bartholomay/Thomas investors nearly 100 per cent owners of the club, with Chuck back in charge as team president/GM. But the Allyn’s rebuffed Chuck’s overtures, forever ending Comiskey ownership of the White Sox. December 15, 1967 – It was one of the worst deals ever made by then G.M. Ed Short. The Sox sent infielder and base stealer Al Weis along with outfielder, base stealer and home run hitter Tommie Agee to the Mets in exchange for former N.L. batting champ Tommy Davis, pitcher Jack Fisher and catcher Richard “Buddy” Booker. Two years later the Mets would win the World Series thanks in large part to the play of Agee and Weis. None the players the Sox got in return did much for them. It was deals along those lines that sent the franchise into a tailspin and by September 1970 got Short fired from his position. December 15, 1993 - Sox G.M. Ron Schueler’s luck with taking chances on hurt or limited free agents continued when he signed Julio Franco to a contract. Franco would have a tremendous 1994 season hitting behind Frank Thomas. Julio would have 20 home runs, 98 RBI’s, eight stolen bases and a .319 batting average in his one year in Chicago. He went to Japan the next year because the Sox refused to meet his asking price on a new deal and with labor unrest on the horizon wanted some stability.

I apologize as I did not see at the time that one had been posted much earlier in the day.

On paper Royals are a better team than the Sox.

https://chicago.suntimes.com/white-sox/2023/12/14/24000128/tonys-place-healthier-larussa-back-wants-state-where-he-fits-with-white-sox-reinsdorf-grifol-getz

December 14, 1965 - In an unexpected move the Sox named “The Brat,” Eddie Stanky as the team’s new manager replacing the retired Al Lopez. Stanky was an intense, obsessed man. He was the 60's managerial version of Billy Martin or Earl Weaver. Stanky knew baseball and was a genius at tactical decisions but he was also extremely unpopular with many of his players. He imposed a curfew, dress code and a rigorous calisthenics program on the team. He would fine players (or bench them) every time they weren’t able to lay down a bunt, hit a sacrifice fly or advance runners into scoring position. He offered a new suit of clothes for any pitcher who threw a complete game with at least a certain number of ground ball outs. For stolen bases or advancing into scoring position, a player would get a new pair of dress shoes. He’d have winning seasons in 1966 and 1967 nearly taking the pennant, but by early 1968 his act had grown old and he was fired… replaced with…Al Lopez! December 14, 1994 - The Sox traded former Cy Young Award winner Jack McDowell to the Yankees for two minor league players. McDowell was the most successful pitcher in the American League between 1990 and 1994 winning a total of 73 games along with the Cy Young Award. He’d win 20 or more games twice in that span making the All-Star team three times. The move, which left the Sox pitching staff without its leader, proved very costly during the 1996 Wild Card collapse and was done purely for financial reasons related to the labor situation that cost the team the last two months of the 1994 season.

December 13, 1969 - The Sox dealt their star left hander Gary Peters to the Red Sox for Syd O’Brien and Billy Farmer. Farmer retired instead of reporting, so as compensation the Sox received Jerry “Wheat Germ Kid” Janeski in early March. Peters would win 33 games in the next three seasons. Janeski won 10 games in 1970 then was shipped to Washington for outfielder Rick Reichardt. His best outing for the Sox came on April 15 when he threw a three-hit, complete game shutout of the A’s in Oakland. Peters had spent seven full and four partial seasons with the team, winning 20 games, making two All- Star teams, leading the league in ERA and winning the Rookie of the Year award in 1963. December 13, 1982 - The White Sox outbid 16 other Major League teams and signed free agent pitcher Floyd Bannister to a five year, $4.5-million-dollar deal. Bannister led the American League in strikeouts in 1981 with Seattle. In his five seasons with the Sox, Bannister won in double figures every year with a high of 16 wins in both 1983 and 1987. The 83’ season saw him get off to a 3-9 start before completely turning it around to go 13-1 after July 12. His signing angered Yankee owner George Steinbrenner who wasn’t used to losing out on talent that he wanted. Steinbrenner was quoted as saying that he regretted voting against Edward DeBartolo in his bid to buy the Sox franchise from Bill Veeck back in 1980 and leveled verbal blasts at owners Jerry Reinsdorf and Eddie Einhorn. December 13, 2001 - In his quest to find reliable starting pitching, Sox G.M. Ken Williams traded youngsters Robert “Kip” Wells and Josh Fogg and veteran Sean Lowe to the Pirates for Todd Ritchie. Ritchie would suffer a shoulder injury and have a disastrous 2002 Sox season going 5-15 with an ERA of over six! A free agent, the Sox let him go soon afterwards. He only appeared in nine more games with Milwaukee and Tampa Bay before retiring. In fairness to Williams, none of the pitchers he gave up really asserted themselves over the ensuing seasons, Fogg perhaps coming the closest to making an impact going 62-69 with an ERA of over five in nine big league years. December 13, 2004 - On the third anniversary of his ill-fated Todd Ritchie deal, Sox G.M. Kenny Williams continued his remake of the club. He sent power hitting but defensively challenged outfielder Carlos Lee to Milwaukee as part of a four-player deal after manager Ozzie Guillen lost patience with Lee and wanted to get away from the ‘home run or nothing’ philosophy the team had. The person coming back to replace him, Scott Podsednik energized the lineup, stole over 40 bases twice, made the All-Star team in 2005 and hit a dramatic walk off home run in game #2 of the 2005 World Series to win it for the Sox 7-6. The Sox would reacquire Podsednik in April 2009 and he had another productive season hitting .304 with 30 stolen bases in 132 games.

According to Merkin's e-mail newsletter, he's set a target date of the trade deadline to be back on the mound in a Major League game. Also he has been contacted by a few teams already including the Cubs who he said was one of the first teams to reach out to him.

December 12, 1975 - In an effort to start improving a desultory offense, Sox G.M. Roland Hemond and new owner Bill Veeck acquired former N.L. batting champ Ralph “Road Runner” Garr from Atlanta for three players including outfielder Ken Henderson and pitcher Dick Ruthven. Garr would have severe limitations in the field but he did become the catalyst for the “South Side Hit Men” in 1977 with his speed and ability to hit to all fields. That year he’d hit .300 with 10 home runs, 54 RBI’s and 12 stolen bases. He’d also hit .300 the following season, 1978. September 12, 1980 - Sometimes the smaller moves are what turn out to be important. Sox G.M. Roland Hemond traded pitcher Richard “Tex” Wortham to the Expos for switch hitting, second baseman Tony Bernazard. Bernazard would be part of the “New Deal” Sox in 1981 and would eventually be traded for another productive second baseman, Julio “Juice” Cruz in June 1983. Manager Tony LaRussa called Bernazard the heart of the club during his time with it.