Lip Man 1

I don't know of any Sox fan openly hoping for his death, if for no other reason because every one of us is going to wind up in that position someday. However I do think all Sox fans will feel grateful that now a new situation/ownership is going to come into play and that it may work much better than before.

Because Gio and the organization disagreed on salary this past year, the Sox took him to arbitration over 50,000, pocket change and it left hard feelings. Plus on the other side, Gio was the MLBPA union rep and those never sit well with JR who still thinks he can break the players union and get a salary cap. I'd like to get him back but I don't think it will happen.

Yes.

https://chicago.suntimes.com/white-sox/2023/12/5/23989614/call-it-what-you-may-it-sure-looks-like-a-white-sox-rebuild The White Sox won’t call it a rebuild, but there’s no getting around the truth. They are rebuilding. Retooling, reshaping, reconfiguring, re-anything is preferred to rebuilding, which spells not trying to contend, even in a weak division. New general manager Chris Getz and his boss, chairman Jerry Reinsdorf, are looking at a minimum of two years before they can begin to expect to compete, even in the soft American League Central.

From MLB.com: The Angels and Cubs have been considered the other finalists to sign Ohtani, though USA Today's Bob Nightengale heard from one high-ranking official on Tuesday who said Chicago had balked at Ohtani's price tag. The Cubs "appear to now be out of the bidding," Nightengale writes. However, MLB Network insider Jon Heyman heard differently, reporting that the Cubs have "not been informed that they're out on Ohtani." Heyman followed that up by saying it doesn’t mean that the report is untrue, but the Cubs haven’t heard that they're out on Ohtani.

I'm guessing the market is waiting for some other guys to sign and Getz is playing teams off against each other which is a smart thing to do.

They had the 4th worst record so dropping a spot isn't a big deal. In the end it won't matter much anyway. Here's who MLB.com has ranked as the #5 selection just FYI: 5. Jac Caglianone, 1B/LHP, Florida Mayo: “Two-way player at Florida. He’s really interesting even if we are not sure what he is. Most people like him as a hitter. There are holes on each side. He has a ton of power, but tends to chase a little. Big, huge lefty. On the mound, he’s up in the upper 90s and misses a lot of bats. But, some command issues. We’ll see what he is. 6-foot-5, 290-pounds. He’s a lot of fun. I think it’s great for college baseball to have a legitimate two-way guy at that level, at the very least.” Yep...another first baseman LOL ?

https://chicago.suntimes.com/white-sox/2023/12/5/23989525/white-sox-sign-free-agent-pitcher-erick-fedde

Billy Pierce, Jeff Torborg and Roland Hemond immediately come to mind.

That is a definite possibility

You have that absolutely correct sir.

The banner in right field said it all about him: "Washington slept here..."

December 15, 1993 - Sox G.M. Ron Schueler’s luck with taking chances on hurt or limited free agents continued when he signed Julio Franco to a contract. Franco would have a tremendous 1994 season hitting behind Frank Thomas. Julio would have 20 home runs, 98 RBI’s, eight stolen bases and a .319 batting average in his one year in Chicago. He went to Japan the next year because the Sox refused to meet his asking price on a new deal and with labor unrest on the horizon wanted some stability. January 22, 1996 - The Sox dealt two minor leaguers to Oakland for slugger Danny Tartabull. The enigmatic Tartabull who had as much talent as anyone, but often didn’t show it, put together a very good season on the South Side, with 27 home runs and 101 RBI’s. The two minor leaguers sent to the A’s were never heard from again. Danny then signed a free agent deal with the Phillies the following year. His best game for the White Sox came in Boston on September 14 that season when he drove in six runs in a 13-5 win at Fenway Park. He went 2 for 4 with two runs scored. Four of his RBI’s came on an eighth inning grand slam. Those two guys at least produced when they were a member of the team.

December 12, 1975 - In an effort to start improving a desultory offense, Sox G.M. Roland Hemond and new owner Bill Veeck acquired former N.L. batting champ Ralph “Road Runner” Garr from Atlanta for three players including outfielder Ken Henderson and pitcher Dick Ruthven. Garr would have severe limitations in the field but he did become the catalyst for the “South Side Hit Men” in 1977 with his speed and ability to hit to all fields. That year he’d hit .300 with 10 home runs, 54 RBI’s and 12 stolen bases. He’d also hit .300 the following season, 1978.

December 5, 1977 - Chalk this one up to Bill Veeck. Knowing he needed a drawing card and a big bat to replace Richie Zisk and Oscar Gamble, Veeck dealt future All-Star Brian Downing and pitchers Chris Knapp and Dave Frost to California. He got back Bobby Bonds and two youngsters, Thad Bosley and Rich Dotson. Bonds would only play in 26 games with two home runs and eight RBI’s for the Sox before he was dealt to Texas in May. The Sox record was a dismal 9-20 at the time and Veeck understood there was no way he was going to be able to re-sign him since he also was in his free agent season. At least Dotson turned out to be of value in the 80's winning in double figures six times headed up by his 22-7 year in 1983. He also made the All-Star team in 1984. December 5, 1986 - The Illinois General Assembly passed legislation allowing funds to be given to the White Sox in connection with the construction of a new stadium across the street from the original Comiskey Park. December 5, 2021 – It took a while but he finally got his due as Orestes “Minnie” Minoso was voted into the Hall of Fame courtesy of the Golden Days Era Committee. Minoso, who had been turned away numerous times before, received 14 votes from the 16-person board. “Minnie” was a six-time All-Star representing the White Sox as well as being a two-time Gold Glove winner in left field. He became the first White Sox player of color when he suited up for the team on May 1, 1951 and homered in his first at bat against the Yankees Vic Raschi. He led the American League in triples and stolen bases three times apiece, was named the A.L. Rookie of the Year for 1951 by The Sporting News and finished hitting over .300 seven times for the White Sox. His impact was felt for generations since he was the first Latin to make it big in Major League Baseball, “Minnie” was called the “Latin Jackie Robinson” by players who followed in his footsteps including such greats as Roberto Clemente, Tony Perez and future White Sox coach Orlando Cepeda all members of the Baseball Hall of Fame.

https://www.chicagotribune.com/sports/white-sox/ct-white-sox-jerry-reinsdorf-20231205-e5osj32duvfpzomk7gjgp5dxou-story.html

Morosi's point though is valid, the Sox probably aren't doing anything with him at least in the near future, so you deal him for a haul that may, may...help with moving forward if you are "retooling", "rebuilding" or whatever word you wish to use. I wouldn't trade him right now but I'm guessing he will be traded in the next one to two years.

https://soxmachine.com/2023/12/in-lieu-of-action-white-sox-open-winter-meetings-with-words/

I always mention when I've spoken with someone for a story I've done to provide context and so that folks know I'm not pulling stuff out of thin air. As far as outlive Jerry, that's fact. There literally is NOTHING else you can as a fan do (you can always give up completely on the team I guess). JR is not going to change, period. His philosophy and values have been demonstrated for 40+ years, the results speak for themselves. Any fan who thinks otherwise is being delusional. I get it, fans need to have some hope but hope is not a recipe for success is it? So do what you need to do to stay alive and outlive current ownership, things may turn for the better after wards. I laugh when people include Santos in trades right now, the guy has an injury that very often leads to TJS, why would any team in their right mind, decide to trade for him or take him in any package right now? Makes no sense. If he shows he can pitch and pitch effectively perhaps he gets traded in July.

I've never said he is "worthless" but I have said that due to his injury and the history the Sox have had with those (i.e. Rodon, Dunning, Martin with "forearm strains") you can't count on him for anything until shown otherwise. Plus his melt downs last year as the season was ending made me question if he really could close.

https://chicago.suntimes.com/white-sox/2023/12/4/23988585/managing-chemistry-a-key-for-white-sox-manager-pedro-grifol-in-second-season

https://chicago.suntimes.com/white-sox/2023/12/4/23988512/white-sox-not-very-close-on-making-deal “Right now, we’re not very close,” Getz said. Cease will likely go to a contender, a status the Sox are not be expected to assume in 2024. They could patch things with top free agents but won’t. With a lacking farm system and a major league team coming off two hugely disappointing seasons, they’re expected to trim payroll and lean to the long term. The Sox won’t call it a rebuild, but when you’re trading Cease, how else would it be characterized? “I would think ‘retool’ is a good way to phrase it,” Getz said. “I say that because we do have talent on this roster. Obviously it hasn’t worked, so you’ve got to be creative and find ways to improve it. We talk about the makeup and the chemistry of the team or certainly add depth or acquire players who are flat out better. We are on a pursuit to improve this team and there are different ways to go about it.”

December 4, 1957 - In a trade that shocked and outraged many Sox fans, popular outfielder “Minnie” Minoso and infielder Fred Hatfield were traded to the Indians for future Hall of Fame pitcher Early Wynn and outfielder Al Smith. Wynn and Smith were among the final pieces acquired for the franchise that would win the pennant in 1959. Wynn would win the Cy Young Award that season with 22 victories. Smith was also a solid contributor for the Sox until he was traded before the start of the 1963 season. December 4, 1997 - Jerry Manuel was named as the team’s new field manager replacing Terry Bevington. Manuel became the second minority manager of the franchise in team history. When hired he had no previous big league managerial experience. He beat out former White Sox shortstop “Bucky” Dent and Larry Parrish among others for the position. In his seven years, the Sox would go to the playoffs in 2000 and have three winning seasons. He’d be named Manager of the Year for his efforts in taking the Central Division in 2000 with 95 victories.

JR actually reached out to Leyland to see if he's like to come back to manage the team after Lamont got fired. Not in the immediate aftermath but some time in that time period. Leyland said no thanks because he was upset over the way the Sox dealt with Lamont who was a close friend and whom he recommended for the job originally.

December 3, 1979 - The Sox claimed first baseman Greg Walker from the Phillies in the Major League Rule 5 draft. Walker would make the big club for good in 1983 and have three seasons with at least 24 home runs and two years with at least 90 RBI’s. He’d then eventually become the Sox hitting coach after retiring. December 3, 2002 – It was a deal that didn’t work to well for the Sox as G.M. Kenny Williams traded closer Keith Foulke, catcher Mark Johnson and a third player to the A’s for pitchers Billy Koch, Neal Cotts and a third player. Koch never found the success he had in either Toronto or Oakland in part because of a rare illness. In a year and a half with the Sox, the former A.L. Fireman of the Year, only saved 19 games with an ERA over five! Cotts at least, would have a spectacular season in 2005 helping the Sox win the World Series. Foulke meanwhile, would save 44 games and make the All-Star team. Williams may have had his hands tied, by the fact that then manager Jerry Manuel had lost confidence in Foulke and refused to pitch him in key situations in the back half of the 2002 season as he went from 69 appearances in 2001 with 44 saves to only 35 appearances and 11 saves in 2002.