Lip Man 1

"Luck is the residue of design..." - Branch Rickey

If the Sox left Chicago I'd simply stop watching baseball, period, full stop. I would never under any circumstances become a Cub fan.

Actually, May was the selection but because he had a multi-year deal in place he should not even have been allowed to be left unprotected. The selection was voided. The Sox then hinted about the possibility of taking Fergie Jenkins whom the Cubs left unprotected. After the Sox/Cubs six player deal, with the "promise" (nudge, nudge, wink, wink...say no more) that the Sox wouldn't take Jenkins, they selected Mura. I posted this earlier in the thread. Also to answer your question, the rules in place at the time had any unprotected player put into a free agent compensation pool. A team making a pick could choose from any player in the pool regardless of what team they came from.

Morman wasn't a free agent, the Sox actually got a pick for Lemon and were able to select an unprotected free agent. Not a draft pick if I remember right. Turns out they were hinting at taking Ferguson Jenkins whom the Cubs left unprotected. Hemond swung a big deal with the Cubs and promised not to select him. Found it...they originally chose Rudy May from the Yankees but that was voided because May still had a multi year deal and should never have been put in the compensation pool. That's when word got out they were hinting at taking Jenkins. After the deal with the Cubs they then took pitcher Steve Mura from the Cardinals.

As Chet told me in his interview his immaturity forced Roland's hand. He had agreed to a new deal with the Sox but hadn't gotten around to signing it yet when the Sox signed Carlton Fisk for more money. Lemon wasn't happy about that and never did sign the deal. He was potentially going to go free agent and Hemond figured it would be better to get a solid player for him (Steve Kemp) and take his chances. As it turned out when Kemp signed with the Yankees the Sox got a compensation pick in the free agent market although I don't remember who they took.

October 19, 1949 – Sox G.M. Frank Lane struck again. Lane dealt backup catcher and malcontent Joe Tipton to the Philadelphia A’s for a young, small second baseman named Jacob Nelson “Nellie” Fox. Tipton had gotten into a fistfight with Sox manager Jack Onslow during the 1949 season and wasn’t going to be kept. All Fox did was eventually get to the Hall of Fame, have his #2 retired by the team in 1976, make 12 All- Star teams, win the league’s M.V.P. award in 1959 and become one of the faces of the “Go-Go” Sox during the 1950's and early 1960's.

In two years Roland took a team that lost 106 games, had a handshake agreement to move to Milwaukee, saw Comiskey Park falling apart and was basically ignored by the media and turned them into a team that won 87 games in a shortened season and fought the A's well into September. To say nothing of the job he did in helping Veeck put together the 1977 team and he built the 1983 club. Very little about Roland's tenure was a failure. Wasn't his fault for most of his time he was saddled with a situation where money was in short supply from ownership issues. And if this is a definition of "failure" the Sox need a LOT more of this: Roland Hemond’s Best Trades: (in chronological order...) 1. November 30, 1971: White Sox send Ken Berry, Syd O’Brien and Billy Wynne to California for catcher Tom Egan, starting pitcher Tom Bradley and outfielder Jay Johnstone. (Author’s Note: Bradley would win 15 games with a sub three ERA in both 1971 and 1972. Egan served as a very good backup to Ed Herrmann and Johnstone added speed, pinch hitting abilities and a crazy character to keep the clubhouse relaxed.) 2. December 2, 1971: White Sox send Tommy John and Steve Huntz to Los Angeles for first baseman Dick Allen. (Author’s Note: The trade that saved the franchise. Allen won the M.V.P. award in 1972 leading the Sox to a near division championship. His ability to hit for power and average was unmatched on the South Side for years. Named to three All-Star teams.) 3. December 2, 1971: White Sox send Rich McKinney to the Yankees for starting pitcher Stan Bahnsen. (Author’s Note: Bahnsen would win 54 games in three and a half seasons in Chicago including 21 in 1972.) 4. November 19, 1972: White Sox send Tom Bradley to San Francisco for outfielder Ken Henderson and pitcher Steve Stone. (Author’s Note: Henderson was a Gold Glove winning, power hitting center fielder while Stone added depth to the pitching staff. Bradley never regained the form that he showed with the Sox and was out of baseball by 1975.) 5. August 14, 1973: White Sox acquire starting pitcher Jim Kaat on waivers from Minnesota. (Author’s Note: Kaat was a two time 20 game winner for the Sox in 1974 and 1975. Made the All-Star team in 1975. Won 45 games in two and a quarter years in Chicago.) 6. June 15, 1975: White Sox send pitchers Stan Bahnsen and “Skip” Pitlock to Oakland for outfielder Chet Lemon and pitcher Dave Hamilton. (Author’s Note: Lemon would turn into one of the top center fielders in baseball with the Sox making the All-Star team twice. Hamilton was a regular contributor to the 1977 White Sox team with four wins and nine saves.) 7. December 11, 1975: White Sox send third baseman Bill Melton and pitcher Steve Dunning to California for first baseman Jim Spencer and outfielder Morris Nettles. (Author’s Note: Melton had a bad back and had worn out his welcome getting into a shouting match in a Milwaukee hotel lobby with broadcaster Harry Caray. Spencer meanwhile won a Gold Glove for his defensive prowess in 1977 saving many errors. He also had 18 home runs and 69 RBI’s for the “South Side Hit Men”, twice driving in eight runs in a game.) 8. April 4, 1977: White Sox send shortstop “Bucky” Dent to the Yankees for outfielder Oscar Gamble, pitchers LaMarr Hoyt and Bob Polinsky and cash.(Author’s Note: The deal was made because the Sox could not afford to resign Dent. Gamble blasted 31 home runs for the “South Side Hit Men.” Hoyt would become a very good starting pitcher winning the Cy Young Award after going 24-10 in 1983.) 9. July 10, 1979: White Sox send pitcher Jack Kucek to the Phillies for infielder Jim Morrison. (Author’s Note: When the Sox were being rebuilt in the early 80's Morrison provided stability and power at either second or third base. Had three seasons of double figure home run totals.) 10. December 12, 1980: White Sox send pitcher “Tex” Wortham to Montreal for second baseman Tony Bernazard. (Author’s Note: Bernazard was a switch hitter with speed and the ability to hit to all fields. He was a good second baseman in his two and a half years with the Sox. Hemond then sent him to Seattle for Julio Cruz a move that crystalized the 1983 team.) 11. January 25, 1983: White Sox send pitchers Steve Trout and Warren Brusstar to the Cubs for infielders Scott Fletcher and Pat Tabler along with pitchers Dick Tidrow and Randy Martz. (Author’s Note: Perhaps Hemond’s greatest deal. Roland used the free agent compensation rules that were in use at the time to inquire about getting Cubs future Hall of Fame pitcher Ferguson Jenkins whom they left unprotected. Cubs G.M. Dallas Green got word of it and quickly made this deal. Part of it was the promise by Hemond that the Sox would not take Jenkins. Fletcher and Tidrow were important parts of the 1983 team. Tabler was then traded to Cleveland for Jerry Dybzinski adding another part to the club.) 12. January 20, 1984: White Sox select starting pitcher Tom Seaver from the free agent compensation pool. (Author’s Note: The future Hall of Famer would win 32 games in two years with the Sox including his 300th beating the Yankees 4-1 on August 4, 1985.) 13. December 6, 1984: White Sox send pitcher LaMarr Hoyt and two minor leaguers to San Diego for pitchers Tim Lollar and Bill Long along with infielder/outfielder Luis Salazar and shortstop Ozzie Guillen. (Author’s Note: Hoyt would see his career quickly end after the 1985 season due to substance abuse. Lollar and Salazar helped the 1985 team to a winning record but Guillen would become the Rookie of the Year in 1985 and win a Gold Glove in 1990 along with becoming a two time All-Star.)

They had other releases but you are basically correct.

October 18, 1969 - A little known studio musical group came out with an oddly named song. On this date it broke into the Billboard Top 100 chart and would eventually move all the way to #1. The group was called Steam. The song, “Na Na Hey Hey Kiss Him Goodbye.” Thanks to the efforts of Sox organist Nancy Faust it would become the song Sox fans used to ‘serenade’ pitchers being removed from games. Today you can hear it practically at every stadium in America but it started on the South Side! In April 2021 ESPN had a special short documentary on the history of the song and how through the efforts of Faust it became the fan base’s anthem and eventually spread as stated to other teams, leagues and sports.

Exactly... and Turner drove in over 90 runs last year and played in the most games in his career so he is taking care of himself physically.

Potential players that can help change the clubhouse next year if they become available. Not win the division or get to the playoffs but make for a better product on the field, improve the win total and that fans would appreciate for what they do. He and McGuffy go into details on why they want each name: Garfien wants: C-Austin Hedges DH-Justin Turner 2b/SS- Jake Cronenworth SP- Lucas Giolito 2b - Adam Frazier McGuffy wants: C-Yan Gomes DH- Justin Turner OF- Eddie Rosario INF-Max Muncy OF-Jorge Soler Manager- Craig Counsell

Nightengale is reporting that Dayton Moore has told the Rangers he is staying and will not be joining the White Sox.

Believing or not has nothing to do with it. Until shown otherwise all we have to go on are his public comments. It would be nice if somehow she rejoined the organization in a serious capacity but as Margulis wrote today (I linked to his story in this thread) it is not happening.

Margalus on why Ng is not coming to the White Sox: https://soxmachine.com/2023/10/kim-ng-would-be-qualified-to-lead-white-sox-if-qualifications-mattered-to-white-sox/

I would love to have the chance to see the Sox get to the playoffs 10 times in 21 years myself regardless of what happened.

JR actually spoke with Leland after Lamont was fired. Leyland was angry at the way his long time friend Lamont was treated by the Sox and said he wasn't interested.

That would be a good move but contrary to what JR himself said he wanted. And if something like that happened I wonder how Getz would react. He could be put in the same position as Hahn having limited authority.

Agree.

Boopa specifically mentioned Chapman in his comment that basically the Cubs made mistakes in getting him for Torres. Chapman helped win them a World Series. My comment was in response to him.

Don't think I did but it was a reasonable assumption based on JR's track record. I did write that I was told that Kenny had told JR that when his contract was up (either this year or next year) he was retiring. So he was going to be out of the picture. I did write from what I was told that Hahn wouldn't leave to take another job unless it was in California because his wife is from there. She likes the Chicago area and wouldn't leave unless it allowed her to go back home. Regarding my comment about "one voice". JR HIMSELF SPECIFICALLY said that at his press conference so unless he somehow changes his mind he isn't looking for anyone to oversee Getz therefore Ng won't be interested. On a different note, did anyone see over the weekend where Randy Levine of the Yankees ripped the Rays and Marlins for not spending money but getting a lot of it in revenue sharing?

Chapman helped win them a World Series and Eloy is nothing special is he?

Not happening. JR specifically said he wants one voice and that voice is Getz.

October 16, 1952 - The Sox sent infielder Willie Miranda to the St. Louis Browns in a trade. So what? Well, consider this; it marked the third time in four months that he was dealt between the two clubs! Miranda was traded to the Browns on June 15… 13 days later the Sox re-acquired him and finally on this date they sent him back. The entire situation developed like this. He was traded along with Al Zarilla to the Browns for Tom Wright and Leo Thomas on June 15. The Browns then waived him on June 28, the Sox claimed him and he returned. Then on October 16 he was sent back to St. Louis along with Hank Edwards for Joe DeMaestri and Tommy Byrne. October 16, 2005 - The White Sox won their sixth league championship beating the Angels 6-3, taking the series 4-1. Jose Contreras fired the fourth consecutive complete game by the staff in the clinching game #5. The four consecutive post season complete games hadn’t been seen in Major League baseball since the 1956 Yankees pulled it off. After losing the first game of the A.L.C.S. the Sox swept away Los Angeles. Paul Konerko was named the A.L.C.S. M.V.P. as he hit .286 with six hits, two home runs and seven RBI’s in the five-game series. The city of Chicago, especially on the South Side and in the South suburbs went wild as the nuclear scenario happened for Cub fans…. the Sox were in the World Series!

October 15, 1917 - The Sox won their second World Series title beating the New York Giants four games to two. The score in the series clincher was also 4-2. Future Hall of Famer Eddie Collins hit .409 with pitcher Urban “Red” Faber, another future Hall of Famer, winning three games (and losing one!) Afterwards a young federal judge and White Sox fan, one Kenesaw Mountain Landis sent a telegram congratulating the Sox for a job well done. The telegram read, “We did a fine job today...we disposed of the Giants.” Landis would go on to become the first baseball commissioner in the wake of the “Black Sox” scandal. October 15, 2020 – On the basis of their first winning season since 2012 and tremendous individual accomplishments, The Sporting News named Sox G. M. Rick Hahn their Executive of the Year and first baseman Jose Abreu the Player of the Year. Hahn became the third Sox executive to win the award following Roland Hemond (1972) and Bill Veeck (1977). Hahn’s deals and restocking the farm system during the rebuild proved to be worthwhile as the Sox turned the corner during the pandemic shortened season with a mark of 35-25 and their first playoff appearance since 2008. He received six of the 18 votes. San Diego’s A.J. Preller was second. Abreu just crushed baseballs since the first day of the year, posting a .317 batting average with 19 home runs, 15 doubles and an American League high 60 RBI during the 60-game season, appearing in every game. He led the American League in hits (76), slugging percentage, total bases (148) and RBI’s and was second in home runs. Abreu joined Frank Thomas (1993) and Early Wynn (1959) as White Sox players to win the award. Indians’ right-hander Shane Bieber was second and Braves first baseman Freddie Freeman third in the voting.

October 14, 1906 - The Sox beat the Cubs, winning the World Series four games to two behind the pitching of Guy "Doc" White. They clinched the title winning the sixth game 8-3. “Big” Ed Walsh won two games for the Sox during the series with infielder George Rohe batting .333 and playing in all six games. The “Hitless Wonders” White Sox had a team batting average of only .230 for the season and hit even worse, .198 in the series. But they collected 10 doubles and three triples in the six games and held the powerful Cubs to a series batting average of only .196 After the game, owner Charles Comiskey handed a $15,000 dollar check to manager “Fielder” Jones. It was to be split among the players. The players viewed the check as a bonus for their efforts. Comiskey though considered it as part of their 1907 salary! The seeds of the eventual “Black Sox” scandal were perhaps sown on this day. It is the only time in over a century of playing baseball that the Sox and Cubs have ever met in the postseason.