TheFutureIsNear

QUOTE (witesoxfan @ Jan 24, 2014 -> 12:01 PM) I'm glad to see you say you couldn't have said it better because it's a terrible argument. THE SOX HAVE ASSETS TO USE. You have to see what the value of them are - because that value is undetermined at this point - before you can evaluate yourself further. Sorry I don't think every player on the white sox are going to be great. Paulino and Reinzio are 5th starters/long relievers. And singing any pitcher takes 0 innings away from Johnson.

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Jan 24, 2014 -> 11:49 AM) Frankly, I don't know if Garcia will pan out, but I would rather acquire him at his development stage than the unknown in the second round. I'm not saying I would rush out and sign Santana or Jimenez, but picking up a veteran pitcher at this stage makes a lot of sense. Increase the inventory. Money aside, banking your future on future 2nd round picks is a bigger longshot than banking on Santana or Jimenez being All Stars. This speeds up the rebuild. You want to play it close to the vest, you wind up like the Cubs who are now saying to their fans their rebuild might not be complete until next decade. Couldn't have said it better. Keep waiting on 2nd round picks and the fringe prospects that are currently in our system to develop and next thing you know it's 5 years later and "next year is the year" becomes the team motto.

QUOTE (ScottyDo @ Jan 24, 2014 -> 11:08 AM) Expensive relative to guys like Paulino. $10-$15M isn't nothing. It's 12-18% of our current total payroll. Ervin Santana has had xFIPs in the mid-4's 3 of the last 5 years, too. It's not bad. It's also not that good. He's got just as good a chance of repeating 2012 as 2013. He's 31 and we're talking about signing him to a, what, 4 year deal? He will definitely cost a draft pick. There is definitely risk there, and it's just unnecessary. Wait till next year if appropriate. So you mean a proven pitcher is going to make more than a guy who has done absolutely nothing in his career???? This is crazy news to me, thanks for sharing.

QUOTE (witesoxfan @ Jan 24, 2014 -> 11:04 AM) The risk is that the dude is 31. Check pitchers historically from ages 18-30 and pitchers from ages 31-42. They tend to lose velocity, lose break, and become more injury prone. It's going to be all downhill from here for Santana. You may get another 3.75 ERA, 210 IP year out of him this year, but for what? A 76 win team? Maybe he pushes them to 78? The value of those additional wins on the value added win curve is very small. The following year, he might be at 4.00 and 200 IP. It's not going to continue to get better. By the time the Sox are expected contenders - we'll say 2016 - Santana is going to be 33 years old with 2 years remaining on his deal. The Sox will have had ample opportunities to add starting pitchers in the meantime that are as good or better than Santana, and they won't come at the price that Santana does. Tanaka made sense because he is 25. You can expect that he'll get better. You can't say the same for the remaining starting pitchers. Those are the only types of players the Sox should be targeting at this point. That's why Santana does not make sense. I can completely make up #'s and state broad generalizations that support my argument too..... Most pitchers don't start to break down until closer to 35, and in fact, have a good amount of success in their early 30's because they have fully learned how to be a pitcher rather than a thrower. I agree that Santana maintaining a 3.2 ERA is unrealistic, but between 3.5-4.2 is extremely realistic. So is the fact that he's most likely going to pitch 200+ innings and deep into games.

QUOTE (ScottyDo @ Jan 24, 2014 -> 09:05 AM) So you get rid of a 2nd round pick in the hopes that an expensive guy with a questionable background performs so that you can trade him for a prospect. Expensive relative to what? The money you and I make? Or the going rate for pitchers like Scott Feldman and Scott Kazmir who make 10 or 11 million dollars a year? And you're still ignoring the fact that Ervin Santana is a better pitcher than you're giving him credit for. 4 out of the last 6 years he's pitched 210+ innings and posted a sub 4 era. And 3 times his ERA was sub 3.5. All while pitching in the AL. So what's the risk? He has 1 bad year out of the 4 he's under contract for? Sign me up.

QUOTE (pittshoganerkoff @ Jan 24, 2014 -> 08:19 AM) Therein lies the problem. Looking at the list of available SPs, which ones have a good chance of being either good for a few years or good long enough to flip for more young talent? It's a gamble with most of those guys, especially considering what the price would be. I'm all for signing someone who can help the team in 2014, but they Sox really need to consider what will happen after 2014. Who knows, one of these guys could be lightning in the bottle. Maybe they sign aguy who tears it up the first half and is then traded for some great young talent. We'll look back and say that it was a good signing. But if they sign someone who stinks it up who goes out with an injury, we'll say it was a terrible signing. There's a ton of risk right now, and the Sox have to weigh those risks against possible rewards. Ervin Santana has been good 4 out of the past 6 years pitching in the AL. There isn't nearly the risk everybody is making it out to be. Jimenez? Yeah, pretty big risk. But Ervin Santana has proven that he's a well above average mlb starting pitcher at this point. And those guys rarely go for less than 15 million a year unless they are at the end of their careers.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Jan 23, 2014 -> 09:23 PM) If they were a starting pitcher short of competing on paper in 2014 I'd agree. They are not. That means assuming that risk for a very unlikely reward. For the record I've been saying Santana the whole time not Jimenez but..... Why is 2015 not a factor? Why not sign a really good #3 starter now for 12 or 13 mil per year? Can we agree that if the team wants to compete in 2015 another SP is going to be have to signed or acquired somehow? Why wait and pay a premium price when there is a more than serviceable SP now at a bargain price? Santana is 31, not 37, I think its more than reasonable to say that he should pitch at a high level for another 4 years. If you would have asked me 2 months ago whether or not I thought the Sox should sign Ervin Santana I would have said heck no without hesitation. But at some point you have to factor in value and capitalize on a buyers market. And do people really think this organization is going to spend 90+ million on 1 of the top SP's being mentioned for next years FA class? Not going to happen.

QUOTE (ScottyDo @ Jan 23, 2014 -> 04:31 PM) Why take the risk now when you could take it in 2015 then? If all the acquisitions we just made fall flat on their faces, then you just paid a bunch of money for nothing. There won't be any SP's of the same quality of Ervin Santana available for $14M per year next year, or any year. That is the point of the entire thread and idea. For whatever reason the market for SP's has completely dried up at this point and its a good time to capitalize. $14M a year is almost nothing for a SP recently, why not take a chance on 1 that just put up a 3.2 ERA? I have no idea why anybody wouldn't want to do that.

QUOTE (pittshoganerkoff @ Jan 23, 2014 -> 04:01 PM) Detroit is still a good team. The AL Central has not been a horsedung division for a few years now. I think it will require less wins to take the division this year, but I would say the winning team is going to need at least 85-86 wins. Adding a veteran starting pitcher over going with Johnson/Surkamp/Rienzo is not going to get the Sox substantially more wins. I don't understand the fascination with spending money on a SP just to spend money. Don't confuse the fact that the Sox were willing to spend $20MM per on Tanaka with their willingness to spend money on another starter...especially one that might be with the team for only a year. Is the world ending and you're not telling anybody?? You do know there will be a 2015 MLB season right? And I'm pretty sure the White Sox are still participating. Not every move has to have an immediate impact. And signing any SP doesn't affect Erik Johnson....taking away a rotation spot from the other 2 guys? Don't care. They are dime a dozen 5th starters who can be found anywhere.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Jan 23, 2014 -> 03:55 PM) Who? And for how much? Ervin Santana for 4/56. Just turned 31 last month and has posted sub 4 ERA with 210+ innings pitched 3 out of the past 4 years. Sounds like a steal to me.

QUOTE (ScottyDo @ Jan 23, 2014 -> 03:28 PM) To what end? How many games do you expect us to win with and without a short-term veteran pitching contract? Why not try to develop a prospect internally for free instead? There's no risk there, because we weren't winning this year anyway. Trust me, I've been all aboard the rebuilding train for a longer than most and fully realize the Sox aren't going to win much this year. But with all that said, you have to realize a good investment opportunity when you see 1. Its like a really nice piece of real estate going for sale way under market value. If you have the $ you have to at least consider it. Santana has shown the ability to pitch like a legit #2 starter and to get that guy at $14M per season should be considered a pretty big steal.

Garza went for less than expected so the timing makes a ton of sense to grab a guy like Santana right now. We would have to give up a comp pick (2nd round), but either A) you keep him and he makes a reasonable $14M-$15M per year. B) You flip him next year and get back a ton more than the 2nd round pick or C) he flops and Jerry can only go to the Bahamas twice this year . But seriously, with a seemingly down market and SP always held at a premium at the trade deadline I think it makes a ton of sense. Of course I'm realistic and realize there is a very slim chance of this actually happening.

Jones, Petricka and Webb should be competing for the spot and let the best man have the job. I think Tyler Danish should be being groomed for a fast track to MLB closer anyway. Obviously not 2014, but I also don't think he should need a ton of time to develop as a closer either. Especially not with the type of stuff he has from an odd arm angle.

It makes no sense to platoon him with a 30 year old who is on the last year of his contract. Give Dayan everyday AB's in LF for at least 1/2 the season and see if he has put anything together yet. Trading him shouldn't be an option either because you would be selling pretty much at his lowest possible point. And this is coming from someone who doesn't have much hope for Dayan

Probably a reach but Hector Sanchez seems like an interesting name.... http://www.fangraphs.com/statss.aspx?playe...&position=C Just turned 24 and he's a switch hitter. Has handled the bat pretty decently in his career for a catcher....apparently a little on the heavy side though so can't speak of his D. Never actually seen him play, just doing some digging.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Dec 17, 2013 -> 02:18 PM) I agree with you on Dunn but it's been made clear the White Sox are still trying. If they don't move Dunn, then it's virtually impossible to have either Gillaspie or Keppinger on this roster. The bench winds up being Konerko, De Aza/Danks, backup catcher...and then an infielder. Gillaspie cannot be that infielder because he's never played even 2b professionally, let alone short, and Keppinger doesn't get used at short very much either. A bench of Konerko, De Aza, Backup catcher, and Keppinger is a silly bench since no one has any confidence with Keppinger's glove. You've pretty much got to dump 2 of them, even if it's for nothing. I think its very possible we don't have a true backup OF and Leury Garcia is the super sub that plays CF. Don't forget Avisail is also capable of playing CF if need be. That would also most likely require Dunn to play a little LF, or Kepp. Both are kind of a scary thought, but then again Viciedo is pretty awful himself anyway. Either way I think Gillaspie is gone.....unless they start Davidson in AAA.

QUOTE (Chicago White Sox @ Dec 17, 2013 -> 07:33 AM) Some people think Semien is overrated because he hasn't been hyped-up by Baseball America and other websites. At the end of the day, he just dominated Southern League as an age appropriate middle infielder. He out-produced prospects like Joc Pederson, who was ranked the 35th overall in BA's mid-season update. Unfortunately, a lot of these websites are hesitant to give Semien his due because he's a member of the White Sox organization and we've struggled to develop position players. Stop, There's no vendetta against white Sox prospects....websites like BA are all about tools and projectability. While Semien is a good all around player I don't think any of his tools would be considered a +. Semien also isn't the type of guy you could project to get increasingly better because of his age and major college background. BA, or any other website, never ranks guys like Semien who project to be just solid MLB players high. And Frankly who cares? Joc Pederson fully deserves to be ranked ahead of semien by the way.

QUOTE (Rowand44 @ Dec 16, 2013 -> 06:26 PM) I feel like Law was more of a Kenny hater than a White Sox hater but I'm sure Wite will correct me on that. Trust me, I was a huge KW supporter at the time, but can you really blame Law in retrospect? The World Series was amazing, but from '06-'11 Kenny put this franchise in a pretty bad state for what amounted to 0 playoff series wins. Kenny had some pretty horrible moves in that stretch.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Dec 16, 2013 -> 04:44 PM) ADA would be a guy that it would make a lot of sense for the Sox to grab someone talented and in A-ball. Yeah definitely. A raw, yet toolsy, under 21 year old you hope puts it together in the next 3 years. A Trayce Thompson type prospect for example would make a lot of sense

QUOTE (Jake @ Dec 16, 2013 -> 04:32 PM) Interesting. I'm glad they're looking at it that way. We should be able to get something nice and shiny for ADA anyway. B level prospect not very close to the majors shiny enough for you? I'm not trying to completely crap on De Aza, but he's pretty darn mediocre once you figure out that he can't be an everyday CF. You're left with a LF who's most likely going to hit somewhere between his '12 and '13 #'s which amounts to somewhere around .275/.335/.405 with 12 HR's and 20 steals. Not a bad player by any means. but I can't see the market for his services being very hot

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Dec 16, 2013 -> 02:21 PM) Just looking at his numbers I'm immediately worried about the strikeouts. The White Sox simply don't have a good history of turning guys with 100+ strikeouts in minor league seasons into quality big leaguers. If his strikeouts go up a little as a big leaguer we'd be talking about a guy K-ing 175 times and so far he doesn't have the HR numbers to be productive doing that. That could change of course, but we will see. That's why I'm not 100% fawning right now, there's a real risk in his numbers that you can't overlook. Anyone know anything about his defense? Hate to use a total cliche but strikeouts are just another out. K's become a problem when you aren't getting on base and you are k'ing often with runners in scoring position. I can't find his minor league #'s with RISP at the moment but his obp is just fine. Adam Dunn managed to be a darn good player for quite a few years despite K'ing a ton, and I could list a whole bunch more too. If he can stick at 3rd with at least average D and hit .265/.330/.500 with 30 hr's on a yearly basis he will be just fine. Great move by Rick.

QUOTE (Jake @ Dec 13, 2013 -> 08:21 PM) He's not young, but I'd be happy to flip him for Brandon Phillips Joke right?

QUOTE (witesoxfan @ Dec 13, 2013 -> 05:44 PM) Because he believes he will hit .300 and get on base at a .400 clip and he will go get any ball hit out to CF Sounds like his job description to me....

The Gordon Beckham apologists are funny. Ok he was hurt last year...but how a about the other 2,000 plate appearances he has generally sucked in? Trust me, a little piece of me dies every time I open my closet and see my #15 Gordon Beckham white sox jersey that I paid good money for just hanging there. But its over, you gotta give it up at some point. Move on and see if Semien can translate his minor league play to a respectable OBP and good defense.

Anybody else hear Rosenthal on the MLB network? Said he has a mole within the White Sox that will "hopefully produce." This came after KW challenged Rosenthal that he couldn't break a story on the White Sox. Guess we'll see if Rosenthal is just BS'ing the next time we make a move. Watch for Rosenthal on twitter....