TheFutureIsNear

QUOTE (Chilihead90 @ Dec 4, 2013 -> 10:11 PM) You think Reed is worth Chafin and Trahan? I don't. And I doubt Arizona would. Ehh maybe, maybe not but its debatable. Wouldn't be the 1st time a team traded too many prospects. At worst Reed is a 24 year old very effective set up man who makes

QUOTE (Kevtrem @ Dec 4, 2013 -> 09:05 PM) Viciedo, Quintana, and Reed for Montero, Owings, and Eaton What do you guys thing? Fair or Unfair, who gets shafted and how bad? I'm not sure how realistic is would be for us to get Montero back. Wouldn't make a whole lot sense for a team trying to make a playoff push to trade their only capable catcher. I would definitely target Davidson because he presents a long term solution to 3B. I agree on Owings, he's pretty much a must get. I'm not crazy about Eaton, but I see why he makes sense. They have some minor league depth at pitching too, so could be an opportunity to get another guy in our system. Chafin or Spruill are interesting guys that AZ probably wouldn't miss. Edit: Just now noticed that you have Reed involved too. I think Davidson, Owings, and Eaton is fair just for Q and Viciedo. If we are giving up Reed too I want Davidson, Owings, Eaton, Chafin, and Trahan

I'm not as high on him as most. I see his future as an above average 2B. Highly doubt he ever has the bat to stick at 3B. With that said, I really don't give a damn about Beckham anymore so if Semien were to start there I'd be fine with it. Not a big deal to me if he starts in AAA either though.

There's really outrage over not signing a guy who has had 1 productive season for $7M per? And that 1 year wasn't even a full year. Not to mention he leaves a lot to be desired defensively. Pretty mediocre behind the plate. 2nd worst among all catchers at throwing runners out. Also just noticed that his BABIP was .373 in 400+ AB's. Very high BABIP + very high strike out rate = stay away.

Who cares, its 950K. He's worth bringing into camp at that price. Its not inconceivable that he could be a useful part time player next year.

QUOTE (BigHurt3515 @ Dec 2, 2013 -> 09:23 PM) Cardinals really didn't have home run hitters playing though. And Headley still hit 31 home runs. Freese at most his 20? Headley was hurt last year too Oh yeah, cause the Padres team is just full of sluggers....the whole NL west besides the Dodgers for 1/2 a season stinks too. I'm not sure how I keep coming off as a big David Freese lover on this board.....I see Headley as a slight upgrade to Freese who makes $5M more next year. And it would have taken less to get Freese as far as team resources. Doesn't seem like a crazy idea to me.

QUOTE (Chilihead90 @ Dec 2, 2013 -> 07:29 PM) That's easy. Freese is a mediocre player who has had 1 good year in his career. Headley is a good player who has had 1 mediocre year in his career. Freese is 30 years old and a righty. Headley is 29 years old and a lefty. Freese was one of the worst defensive 3B last year. Headley is one of the best defensive 3B in baseball. It's really not even an argument. Oh boy Freese is a whole 11 months older. And Freese was hurt last year, he has been a slightly above average the rest of his career. Headley is a 3B who will make around $9M next year who has posted an OPS over .775 once in his career. I'll pass. His 2010 season of .264/.327/.375 wasn't mediocre by the way? He's had 1 really good season (2012) and 1 season that was a little above average (2011), the rest of his career has been average at best. And Busch is just as bad for hitters as Petco for whoever used that excuse, actually its worse for home runs. http://espn.go.com/mlb/stats/parkfactor/_/order/false

I suggested we should go after David Freese and people practically jumped down my throat, but somehow Headley is a good idea? Somebody please explain this logic to me.

QUOTE (Jake @ Dec 1, 2013 -> 02:43 AM) I have no clue why you'd assume Cleveland is on some higher level than the rest of us. Very flawed club Yeah true, wouldn't shock me if they only won 80 next year. Either way, the Twins aren't serious playoff contenders despite how many mediocre SP's they sign

Good to see the Twins spending $ to make sure they can compete with us and the Royals for 3rd place in the ALC

Hate to be THAT guy but there is a lot of talk of an '08 team that won 1 playoff game and then failed the following year. That should hardly be the team we are trying to emulate

QUOTE (Jerksticks @ Nov 30, 2013 -> 03:14 PM) I understand that what the cubs are doing has brainwashed some people. If everything goes right for them, then they will have 3-5 core players come up to the big leagues together in a few years, and then after a few years of adjusting, they should contend. 2018? All Hahn is doing is basically saying "f*** that". We just added 2 potentially dynamic young guys to our already massive young core at the MLB level. I would take our position over theirs every time. While I respect the rebuild thought process, I just can't see how it applies in the least bit to the White Sox. We already have tons of good, young guys having success at the MLB level. Keep adding good young guys Rick because at the end of the day, all you need to win is good players. We'll agree to disagree on the white Sox having a ton of young talent. We clearly view the talent on the team way different

QUOTE (Jerksticks @ Nov 30, 2013 -> 02:23 PM) Haha. Too funny. Call me different, but I prefer good tasting food to bad tasting food. Yay for mediocrity and not winning playoff games!

QUOTE (CaliSoxFanViaSWside @ Nov 30, 2013 -> 01:59 PM) My first reaction to Pythag speak ( and I mean no disrespect by this ) is huh ? I'm talking strictly baseball. We didnt score runs or field the ball very well and lost a lot of low scoring close games. Let's assume Abreu hits and Garcia hits and we get a few gloves , a few BP arms maybe one other reliable hitter and get rid of 3 of the main culprits from last year. I know I'm assuming a lot but if we get the same type of pitching we got in 2012 get a little more run production and much better fielding, smarter base running and the BP holds up well I think we can be a .500 team which would be a huge improvement . Bad luck to me = bad fielding , bad base running and bad hitting. Improve on those things and your luck changes. Is all of that worth it for a .500 team? Even if we change all of the "luck" and manage to win 85 games that's still not anywhere really near the playoffs in the AL. IDK, maybe I'm different, but I've always been a championship contention or bust type of person. I'd rather lose for 2 straight years and come back with a well built team than throw together team that is simply designed not to loose a lot but has no real shot of winning anything when its all said and done.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Nov 30, 2013 -> 01:39 PM) He has an opt-out after 3 years and he's got a $10 million signing bonus this year which is paid right now in addition to that $7 million. If he's not putting up .850+ OPS numbers next year that's a disappointment. If he need a "rookie year" or two to adapt, then all of a sudden he's opting out of his contract and the Sox have gotten very little production from him. Ehh I think you might be a little confused on his contract. White Sox control him for 6 years, but he does have the option to at 1 point opt out of said contract and start his arbitration process. A clause most likely put in if he's vastly over performing his contract that only goes as high as $12M. If performing very well arbitration will certainly pay him more. "the powerful first baseman can opt out of his contract when he first becomes eligible for arbitration and opt into arbitration despite the White Sox maintaining control over his contract." http://mlb.mlb.com/news/article/cws/white-...p;vkey=news_cws

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Nov 30, 2013 -> 01:05 PM) If we're not expecting an .857 or better OPS from Abreu next year then that contract looks really, really dumb. Its a 6 year deal. He's a rookie who will be not only be adjusting to MLB pitching, but the entire culture of the country. You're honestly going to tell me you expect him to perform that well right off the bat? .857 OPS would have been good for 21st in all of baseball last year and 8th among 1B. Plus you act as if the $7M he will be making each of the next 2 years is a big contract. Thats peanuts in todays MLB. If he's playing everyday and maintaining a .775ish OPS its great value. Not saying Abreu can't or won't be a good player, but .850 OPS in his 1st year just seems a little unrealistic to me.

C or RP are the only positions I see us possibly taking a shot at in the Rule V. They are the only 2 positions I see us being able to stick with on the roster all year. With that said, I can easily see us going after 1 of the power arms available to see if Coop can work with them. There are 3 or 4 guys available that throw 95+ and that has been this FO's MO for quite a while.

QUOTE (scs787 @ Nov 29, 2013 -> 09:23 PM) By my, perhaps twisted, logic they don't have to replicate what those guys did run for run. The Sox lost 52 of their 99 games by 2 runs or less. To me, and perhaps only to me, that means they're not as far away as some might think. Once again, perhaps only in my world, I think if you improve 3 positions, Abreu already being one, Granderson being another, and a trade could bring another. I see both arguments and believe they're both valid, Hahn can go either way. What about the bullpen? That has a huge impact on all of those 2 run games. It seems like we are going to be relying on Reed, Lindstrom, Jones and a bunch of rookies. And what about our 3,4, and 5 SP's? A lot of youth and an injury prone and inconsistent Danks. Is it not possible that the back of our rotation struggles a lot? For the record, I fell pretty good about our young pitching for the future, both Sp and Rp. But they are going to do what young pitchers do and struggle. I don't see how this upcoming season is going to go well unless you are hoping and praying for everything possible to go right. Abreu, Garcia, Vicidieo, Santiago, Johnson, and at least 3 of the young BP arms would all have to perform at least up to or exceeding expectations. Just too much to do in 1 year.

QUOTE (scs787 @ Nov 29, 2013 -> 04:23 PM) You guys are avoiding DAs point about this team being just 1 year removed from being 4th in the AL in runs scored. I think it's completely plausible to think they can return to that esp. if Abreu hits like we're all hoping. I'm all for Granderson. He walks at a pretty good rate and he won't clog the base paths. Batting him 3rd ahead of Abreu-Dunn-Garcia would be quite the sexy middle of the lineup. If they can then trade Santiago for yet another piece then the offense should be more than good enough to get the Sox back in contention. 4 of the top 5 guys in OPS are gone from that team. And Dunn is the 5th and he's getting more and more unreliable by the day(OPS is dropping a shocking amount year by year). Anybody who is expecting Abreu to match a .857 OPS or Garcia to maintain close to a .850 OPS needs to take off the rose colored glasses. Is it possible? Sure, but we are talking about rookies. 1 of which I don't think has even stepped foot on American soil yet. Expecting either to do so is unrealistic. And then there is the catcher spot.....AJ hit out of his mind that year, I'd be shocked if our C spot produces 3/4 of what he did that year. Our offense is still 2 or 3 guys away from our team being in real contention. We've already traded off 2 big pieces and suffered through 1 horrible season, why ruin progress with a waste of $ stopgap that isn't enough to get the team over the hump? Personally I see being bad for another year as the best possible thing for the franchise and its future. 2015 is a whole different story though, I'd be upset with anything less than a playoff appearance.

QUOTE (StRoostifer @ Nov 29, 2013 -> 01:04 PM) You are one of very few voices of reason my friend. Signing Granderson to a team that's rebuilding/retooling etc is just spending money for the sake of spending money as well as just plain dumb. That money is better spent on player development than any one free agent. If this team was close to contending I would be all for it but they aren't so invest that money in the farm, future drafts and Intl signings. Look at it this way. Had we already signed Granderson we could very well have missed out on Abreu ( depending on years/ money per year for Grandy). Thanks but no thanks Curtis! Yeah I've been surprised by the amount of people who want to hold on and not embrace a rebuild. Not saying I haven't seen a good amount of people rooting for a rebuild, but there are just way more people who are delusional about the talent on the current roster. Curtis Granderson isn't going to make our horrible offense any less horrible.

QUOTE (flavum @ Nov 29, 2013 -> 11:32 AM) If they got Granderson for 2 years at 26 mil, I'd be happy with that. Two years while the Sox are still trying to develop some guys, I'd be ok with. Three years is where I don't want him--especially at 12+ mil. I bet he signs somewhere in the next two weeks, so we'll know soon enough. Why? So he can be there just to ensure the team stays mediocre? This team does not need to be investing $ in any player that isn't apart of the future. Plus the current lineup is already over capacity with guys who can't keep their OBP above .320.

QUOTE (Stan Bahnsen @ Nov 28, 2013 -> 03:44 PM) God, I hope this is false. Might as well punt the season, if true. I don't like punting whole seasons. Sometimes you have to get worse to get better.....I'd like to see a vet brought in who can field the position well, but I don't see the need to break the bank for any of the guys available this year. If we can get a young C in a trade then great, but I see no need to rush and get the 1st upgrade available.

Not really big news or anything, but its slow..... BA had him as San Fran's 8th best prospect going into last season and he's put had a fairly impressive minor league career. Still 25 and supposedly has some serious tools. Could be an interesting guy to bring for a look

Is there a neither option? But if I had to pick 1 I guess I'd go with Salty. It wouldn't be a good contract, but it wouldn't be bad enough to handcuff the organization or anything either. Johnson has a chance to be a legit #3, if not #2 starter. I'm not trading him + a guy who has a shot to be a starting 2B in the near future for Weiters

QUOTE (witesoxfan @ Nov 26, 2013 -> 12:05 PM) I think were close, but if say the Red Sox and the Orioles both feel they need a left handed power bat and nothing but a left handed power bat, and Adam Dunn is the only one available, I think you could potentially see one or both increase what they are willing to give up (perhaps demanding the Sox pick up only $5 mill rather than $10 mill, or willing to give a better prospect, or whatever). However, that's a pretty narrow scenario and I think both teams would attempt to find a substitute that offers more utility than Adam Dunn, even if it costs them more. There are going to be more left handed power bats available than Adam Dunn. I was actually thinking the same thing as for desperate AL teams, but with the Yankees and Mariners. The Yankees paid 14M over 2 years for Vernon Wells last year in a desperate attempt for a power hitter. Dunn doesn't seem that out of the question. Cashman seems to love renting players in recent years as well. The Mariners are also desperate for a power hitter and I don't see any of the big name guys going there unless the Mariners grossly overpay. They could be willing to settle on Dunn as a last ditch effort. They know they have to start competing with the pitching they have. Not saying its at all likely, just that's its not out of the question and if there were to be any interest Hahn should definitely do his best to work out a reasonable deal if possible.