TheFutureIsNear

QUOTE (Ro Da Don @ Dec 2, 2016 -> 09:11 PM) Lmao Coats. Lmao, could you imagine if he had a sub .700 ops and was a detriment in the field? That would be hilarious...

What's the definition of insanity again? Out with the old and in with the new. Liriano and Coats should get Avi's ab's, we at least haven't seen them fail over and over already. Hell, throw Engel out there. Just not Avi.

Sale to Boston for Moncada, Rodriguez, Groome, Dubon, Dalbec, and Swihart

Eaton should definitely be considered, as should everyone on the team. Because of his control, production, and consistency I wouldn't move him unless it was a really good package of players obviously. Basically, if someone wants to pay the price like Eaton is 5-6 WAR player that he was last year I'd do it just because I'm not sure he's going to be that guy by the time we are ready to seriously compete.

QUOTE (ChiliIrishHammock24 @ Nov 29, 2016 -> 05:11 PM) Saw Dave Cameron wrote an article about the Mets should try to move Michael Conforto now (they have a huge glut of OFs). What about something like OF Michael Conforto + SS Gavin Cecchini for Nate Jones? Conforto was the #80 ranked prospect before his 1st major league season. He has now played a full season worth of games in the majors, and despite a low average (.238), he has a fine walk rate of 10%, and an average K% of 23%, to go along with 21 HR, above average defense, 109 wRC+ and a 3.4 WAR. Gavin Cecchini is a SS likely to end up at 2B, and I would guess would come in around the top 50 in prospect lists. Was ranked #87 last year before hitting .325 in 117 AAA games this season, walking 10% of the time and only striking out a fantastic 11%. He also hits 8 HR, should play above average defense at 2B and has a strong arm. Conforto will turn 24 before the year starts, Cecchini turns 23 in a month. Both are obviously major league ready, and both former 1st RD picks (10th and 12th respectively). It's a good idea, but I'm seeing rumors that the Mets are shopping Jay Bruce already...probably want to shed some payroll? They do still have Brandon Nimmo who is interesting along with Wilmer Flores. Both don't seem to have starting spots right now for the Mets. Although a lot older than you'd like (28) TJ Rivera is also intriguing. He has video game like #'s throughout the minors (seriously, take a peek) and hit well in his 1st limited shot in the majors this past year. Robert Gsellman is another good looking MLB ready player that doesn't seem to have a starting spot in their rotation. So if we could get any 2 of Conforto, Nimmo, Flores, Rivera, Gsellman I'd be pretty happy. Maybe get a low level lottery ticket guy depending on which 2 of the above as well ...

I'm not from Chicago at all, but some of these view points are mind boggling to me.... - People don't pay to watch crappy baseball. Plain and simple. If the Sox are competing with a young and exciting team fans will watch and show up. That's common sense for the whole sports world. The team hasn't won a playoff series for 12 years and the product on the field has been dreadful for 3/4 years now. Why would people show up? - Who care about the Cubs? If you're running a sports franchise and making roster decisions based on public opinion or what another team is doing you're already doomed. If the Cubs offer us the best deal it shouldn't even be a question. And I wouldn't give a damn if Sale won 3 championships in a row with them, if we got better in the long run that's all that matters. Idk, maybe being from the north east gives me a different perspective, but the 1 and only thing I'm concerned with is the Sox getting younger and more talented to give us hope for the future. Don't care who has to go or where they go in the process, because right now there is no hope for the WHite Sox.

So his annual salary is roughly a 1/4, maybe a 1/5 if we're lucky, of our annual payroll? And people really think this team is going to compete by signing free agents? Not a chance in hell, blow the whole thing up now. Laughable that people keep pointing to the Machado/Donaldson free agent class like it matters too, those guys are going to be getting $35M/year it looks like. Only chance this franchise has at competing is acquiring as many young, cheap assets as possible.

No, not nearly enough talent in the organization still. Not even really close. Long way to go before we do and Sale would only put a small dent in fixing the damage that has been done the past 4+ years.

QUOTE (KyYlE23 @ Nov 25, 2016 -> 04:01 PM) i dont think Abreu is gonna get a huge raise, I just think Napoli isnt gonna be getting a big contract. Teams get sketchy when guys cross that 35 year threshold, and Napoli isnt exactly a sure thing nor is he a guy who you can put out on the field very much(if at all anymore) And trading for Abreu doesnt tell me that you are saving a lot of money over signing Napoli if that is the Astros goal. I think Napoli gets same contract as Morales, 3/$33M....maybe the 3rd year isn't guaranteed and it's a vesting option or something along those lines. So it could be 3/33 for Napoli or 3/42(ish) for Abreu. There's a pretty massive value difference between those 2 players at similar contracts so the inclusion of Abreu (or even Frazier) should be pretty damn appealing to the Astros. So no $ saved but a better player at not much of a different rate. Abreu + Sale might actually be a bit ambitious in terms of what the Astros are willing to give up. Frazier makes a whole lot of sense for them to me tho, 1 year deal with QO possibility after the season and shouldn't cost them too much more in terms of prospects.

QUOTE (KyYlE23 @ Nov 25, 2016 -> 02:29 PM) Yea with Abreu opting into arbitration, there is no telling how much he will make next year and if the Astros would be saving money or not How much money do you think Napoli is going to make? The guy is about to turn 35 and had his best year in the past 5 seasons, is pretty much a DH only, I dont think anyone is going to be breaking the bank to sign him http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2016/10/jose...y-whitesox.html Abreu won't get nearly the raise you're thinking of. Wouldn't surprise me if Napoli secured a fairly similar free agent contract to what Abreu will get the next 3 years after arbitration.

QUOTE (Chicago White Sox @ Nov 25, 2016 -> 10:00 AM) It's fine if he ultimately ends up as a reliever, but we're going to need starters from somewhere and he's still our best hope of becoming one at the moment. Let's give him every opportunity to become one in 2017. Next year should be a lost season, so having a compentant bullpen should be the least of our problems. We'll agree to disagree. I haven't thought Fulmer was a SP since the draft. Everything about him from his stuff, delivery, and even demeanor scream reliever to me. Hopefully he proves me wrong though.... I also believe that there is a point of no return for a pitcher. If you throw him out there and have him beat up as a starter there could be repercussions as far as confidence. Obviously guys have become good relievers after failing as starters, I just don't want to mess around with a guy that was such a high pick. Figure out the best role for him and stick with it. It would be a mistake if there are questions about him being a starter but he gets kept there just to try and maximize his value in my opinion.

Yeah nothing wrong with "just" being a reliever nowadays. He can be very valuable to the team as either the closer or a multi inning reliever. Obviously the pitching coaches and scouts would know best, but just seems like a square peg in round hole trying to make him a starter to me.

QUOTE (ChiSox1917 @ Nov 24, 2016 -> 08:28 PM) That's the package that get's me interested. Reed didn't do great in his call up this year in 120 ab's, but I watched him a lot last spring, and his power is very impressive. Ball just explodes off his bat when he connects. Still very young, only 23, and he made good contact in the minors with a good batting eye for balls and strikes. Bregman + Reed gives us 2/5 of our infield for the foreseeable future IMO. If we want those 2 I think Frazier has to be included. Trading both would force them to move Gurriell to 3B and rely on a 1B platoon of Tyler White and Marwin Gonzalez. Frazier makes a lot of sense for them on a 1 year deal over older FA's and would only sweeten the package for us so obviously shouldn't be a problem. Just a matter of what pitching prospects we could also get...2 of Paulino, Musgrove, Whitley, or Martes would be amazing.

If it's what I think will happen then it's .... Sale - Goes Quintana - Stays Robertson - Goes Fraizer - Goes Jones - Stays Abreu - Stays Melky - Goes Eaton - Stays Jennings - Stays

In a perfect world every single 1 is gone between now and the trade deadline of '18. Stock pile the prospects and picks for 2 years and then start make a run for the playoffs by year 3. That's my blueprint at least...

QUOTE (Ro Da Don @ Nov 24, 2016 -> 11:37 AM) I gotta disagree personally. If they offered 6 or 7 guys, even excluding nasty Gallo or Profar who only has 3 years of control left, they could get it done for sure. - Nomar Mazara - Yohander Mendez - Andy Ibanez - Ronald Guzman - Cole Ragans - Michael Matuella - Michael De Leon - Ariel Jurado - Pedro Payano - Jose Trevino - Leody Tavares - Alex Speas I like the pair of Jurado and Payano better than Mates and Paulino from the Astros. Hmm well that's an interesting opinion. I'm not going to pretend to know anything about either of the Rangers guys, but based on rankings I have a feeling you are very very alone in that opinion. What makes you like those 2 so much out of curiosity? Have you seen them pitch or something?

QUOTE (CaliSoxFanViaSWside @ Nov 24, 2016 -> 10:22 AM) Don't count out the Rangers also making a serious bid for Sale. Darvish will be a free agent soon and they'd like to max his last year by adding Sale and making a very serious run this year. The 2 horse race will have at least 4 teams running neck and neck down the stretch. This race has only just reached the 1/4 pole . Texas doesn't have enough to trade to seriously compete with these other teams. They've traded away a lot of prospects in recent years. Gallo and Profar should only have so much value so they don't work as headliners. It would have to be something like Mazara, Gallo, Profar, and Yohander Mendez to beat out a Dodgers, Astros, or Red Sox offer. And I can't see them logically trading those 3 guys they need on offense for 1 pitcher, regardless of how great Sale is.

I think he's most likely a good AAAA player, but I agree he should see a decent amount of AB's in a rebuilding year just to see if he can stick.

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Nov 23, 2016 -> 09:54 PM) Only if they're convinced Gurriel can't play 3B competently. One would think they would want to diversify their offense away from high K, high homer but mostly lower OBP guys. That's not the type of offense that's going to successfully manufacture runs in the postseason, after you get through Altuve and Correa. Sure, they might all get hot at the same time, but the odds of that happening against elite pitching aren't that high. One would think that...but their rumored interest in Mike Napoli would say otherwise. And if Gurriell is a better 3B then Todd can easily play 1st for them as well. I have no idea if the Napoli rumor is true or not, but if it is I'd have to imagine getting Frazier on a reasonable 1 year deal would be pretty enticing instead.

Sale and Frazier for Bregman, Martes, Reed, Paulino, Cameron, and Stubbs I think that trade helps both franchises out a lot.

QUOTE (Carpe Diem @ Nov 23, 2016 -> 01:02 PM) No problem, apparently any prospect on the Dodgers is available. So the "Urias is off limits" fuzz is just that. However, I was told that if the Dodgers include Urias they are not keen on including Bellinger, but that was just for Sale straight up. If White Sox added more I'm sure Bellinger would be added. Only other name that was mentioned is Calhoun ( White Sox//Kenny Williams love him) Not to look too deep into it....but could your source not be considering Urias a prospect still therefore not really clarifying whether he is or isn't available? I still just can't see the Dodgers giving up Urias + a good package of hitting prospects to make it worth our while. It would be nice to get a young left handed ace to replace Sale, but we need a whole heck of a lot more to help this team rebuild. Bregman is still my #1 target. Bergman + AJ Reed would be even more ideal. Hopefully the rumors of the Stros looking at Napoli are true to free up both Bregman and Reed. If not throw them Frazier in the deal as well.

$8M a year for pitch framing is a lot. He's really not even that good at throwing runners out, 23% this past year . Offensively he should never face a lefty and the only thing he brings against righties is above average power...for a catcher. Glad we aren't in the buying market for guys like this.

I hopefully the game transitions more to this. The constant pitching changes for every matchup gets to be a bit much to watch sometimes. That and it's probably just more effective instead of trying to get by by using 3 mediocre guys in the 6th and 7th Jones at closer and use Burdi and Fulmer in this type of role. Would be able to keep 1 fresh and really shorten the game.

QUOTE (Ro Da Don @ Nov 22, 2016 -> 09:04 PM) If they're trading Sale to do what's best for the future, why not move Q as well and get 4 or 5 more players with 5 or 6 years of service instead of Q with just 4 (and burning another year of Q's service years by keeping him into 2017, by the way)? Not trying to argue your reasoning or information. This organization just blows my mind. I really, really believe Q will be ineffective by about age 32-33 when he loses a few miles of velocity. Maybe he pulls a Buehrle and proves me wrong, but I just can't see him putting up 5 WAR seasons in a few years. I think it ends up being more of a "retooling" than a blow up/fire sale. Trade Sale for the biggest package of prospects possible and then move Melky, Frazier, and Robertson. I personally say just demolish the whole team, but the way I think the team intends to does have a shot of working. (Just using Boston as hypothetical) If we add Benentendi and Devers to Eaton, Abreu, Anderson, and Collins, come 2018 there could be a glimmer of hope. And that's not including 2 more high picks + whatever we get for Melky/Frazier/Robertson. Maybe a free agent or 2 as well once $ opens up and we are paying a lot of young guys. It would take a lot of things to go right of course, but the quick turnaround route really isn't impossible in my opinion. But again, doing it the right way and trading Q, Eaton, and Abreu and waiting an extra year or 2 makes more sense to me.

QUOTE (bmags @ Nov 22, 2016 -> 02:18 PM) Right, more or less trying to figure out which of the teams in a Sale bidding war actually care about paying him top dollar vs. getting value. Never even thought about it like this, but you're probably right. We are all talking about how important the $ saved on Sale's contract is, but what's $20M to a billionaire in an uncapped sport? I'm guessing not a whole lot either.