TheFutureIsNear

With the pop we now have at 2b and 3b I'm not really worried about upgrading SS. Put Saladino there and hope he plays GG defense and his bat doesn't kill us. What we do still need is a middle of the order hitting RF and a lefty mashing platoon player that can play OF defense well so LaRoche(if he's still on the team) never see's an AB against a lefty. The RF options are obvious in free agency, but not sure I see the good fielder who hits lefties available in free agency. Would have to be a trade target, but not sure who. Eaton CF Melky LF/DH Upton/Cespedes RF Abreu 1B Frazier 3B Laroche/TBA(OF who plays LF vs lefties and Melky DH's) Lawrie 2B Avila/Navarro C Saladino SS That looks like a division winning lineup if I've ever seen 1.

QUOTE (JRL @ Dec 16, 2015 -> 04:31 PM) A few more things: 1. For an "A level reliever"? I think even if Avi did have any trade value, that's a bit much given what "A level relievers" like O'Day went for in free agency, and what Kimbrel just commanded in a trade, its obvious that an Avi and Laroche package is nowhere close to what it'd take to get "A level reliever". 2. The notion that Avi was once a "top prospect" is kind of figment of us Sox fans' imagination. He was ranked the #74 prospect by Baseball America prior to 2013. That was the only prospect rating service that ever had him in Top 100. He was ranked 1 time, by only 1 scouting service, and he was ranked toward the bottom, where the guys are still statistically much more likely to fail than succeed. And this was before he the proceeded to put up substandard numbers as a major leaguer, and when he was 2-3 yr younger than he currently is. So, its not like he was some Miguel Sano type or even a Tim Anderson level guy back then, and now whatever value he did have at that, you would have to think its almost completely disappeared, no? A level as in some 20 year old kid not in a teams top 30 prospects. And I think you're being a bit overdramatic about Avi personally. There have been older players given chance after chance based on their tools. Avi has a hit tool and raw power that will be given a chance. If you banish every 24 year for not succeeding like you seem to want to do you'd miss out on a lot of good players.

QUOTE (Alexeihyeess @ Dec 16, 2015 -> 02:43 PM) They tried to get rid of LaRoche and couldn't. I don't think they tried packaging LaRoche + for nothing. And I'm not even expecting the full salary to be taken on. LaRoche, $5M, and Avi for an A level reliever isn't feasible? I know Avi wasn't good last year but he's 24 and was a top prospect not that long ago.

Would it make sense to package LaRoche with expendable young guys like Avi, Beck, Webb/Putnam? I know those guys don't have a ton of value or anything, but taking on 1 year of LaRoche would be a lot more palatable if you're getting a cheap bullpen arm for 6 years or if a team wants to gamble on Avi's potential. Make sense to anyone else? I can see the Brewers being 1 team that would be interested.

Good move by us. I saw Trayce as a 4th OF/Platoon/Oft used defensive replacement, and while that is valuable, I don't see it as a huge loss. I thought Micah could be a good player but a change of scenery was necessar. And Montas was going to get traded 1 way or another. No spots in the rotation open with Fulmer and Adams making a fast path to the majors, and sticking him in the pen would have been a disservice to him imo. We have more than enough pop at 3B and 2B that Saladino should stay at SS to have a vastly inproved infield offensively and defensively. Add in Upton/Cespedes at RF as huge improvements on both sides and we can start to talk about seriously contending

Prince had 1 bad year. Yes his contract is really bad, but the Rangers aren't dumping him for nothing. They are trying to win now and Prince will help them do that. Trading the farm for Hamels and then dumping Prince for our trash would be questionable at best. Nor should we be looking to absorb that contract either. Edit: The Tigers are still on the hook for $30M of Fielder's contract. So that means Texas has him at 5/$90M going forward. Which sounds about market value...he might even get more than that if he was a FA right now. So yeah, he's not getting traded for LaRoche.

Sign Cespedes and Matsuda Trade Montas, Avi, and Leyer for Blackmon Find away to get rid of Laroche while saving at least 3-5 million Eaton CF Blackmon LF Cespedes RF Abreu 1B Melky DH Lawrie 2B Matsuda 3B Avila/Navarro C Saladino SS Trayce and Sanchez used as super utility guys and defensive replacements. Sale Q Rodon EJ Danks Turner/Kahnle Jennings Putnam Petricka Duke Jones Robertson

QUOTE (iamshack @ Dec 14, 2015 -> 05:50 PM) Blackmon had a hell of a season last year. Not sure he will come as cheaply as some of you might think... A SP who is a top 50 prospect in all of baseball that has done nothing but pitch great + An OF with all the tools in world who just tore up the AFL + a 22 year old with a 95+ mph fastball At least that's how I'd spin it to Colorado...Not saying it would definitely get it done but I'd say it would be pretty damn close. Montas is nothing to scoff at as trade chip for a lot of players in this league imo. Did you just see what Ken Giles was traded for? Montas has a lot more value then people want to admit. Maybe it would take a slightly better 3rd prospect than Leyer, but no one substantial. At least all in my opinion. We're all just guessing here right?

QUOTE (Moe @ Dec 14, 2015 -> 01:11 PM) I would think Blackmon and Dickerson wouldn't cost the likes of Anderson/Fulmer This is my top answer right now. They might want a little more for Dickerson since he's younger, but Blackmon should definitely be a target for us. Left handed, should be above average in LF defensively, good speed, has shown good OBP skills, and is still arbitration eligible until '18. If the Rockies would take something like Montas, Engel, + a C level pitching prospect (Leyer?) I would definitely do it. I know they are coveting young power arms and would like to unload an OF so it all much a lot of sense to me.

We still need 3 above average MLB hitters who can field their positions reasonably well. Not impossible, but I'm doubting the FO sees it that way. And we need to do that while losing as few prospects as possible. Sign Upton or Cespedes Sign 1 of Kendrick, Freese, Murphy, Matsuda, Desmond Trade Montas, Engel, and Leyer for Charlie Blackmon Get rid of Laroche and some of his salary somehow Not impossible, just highly unlikely

QUOTE (Tony82087 @ Dec 12, 2015 -> 06:57 PM) And why do people believe a package centered around Avi Garica, Micah Johnson and Frankie Montas is going to acquire one of the premier OF's in the game? Who Cargo? Is it still 2013?

A lot of Sox players get overrated on this board, but for whatever reason Montas gets underrated. Seems like everybody is just waiting for him to fail...but he keeps delivering. He's a top 50 prospect in all of baseball heading into this season as a starter with a 98 mph fastball. As a 22 year old with a huge fastball that just has to harness his location a bit (doesn't have a walk problem by any means) and improve his changeup he's doing pretty damn well in my opinion. With all that said I still see him as good trade chip right now. If we can get a good OF/3B under 30 with control for at least 3 years I'd do it for Montas + filler prospects outside the top 12. I like EJ more than most so I think we have 4 rotation spots full already for the forseeable future with Fulmer and Adams knocking on the door as soon as the season after next. We need more hitting talent, it's going to have to come from our pitching depth 1 way or another eventually. Montas seems like the best option in my eyes if we aren't going to trade Q.

A little mind boggling to me that most of you would rather trade more prospects for Cargo and his contract. The same Corrs ?'s apply to Cargo as Blackmon and Dickerson...Cargo has just been taking advantage of Corrs longer. We shouldn't be trading for what a guy did in 2013 either. Cargo hasn't been elite since then. 2 years 37 million + at least 2 of our really good prospects is way too much for him in my opinion. The injuries scare me a little with Dickerson and I'd imagine they'd still want a pretty good package back for him as well. So that leaves me with Blackmon as a left handed hitter who can bring above average D to LF with good speed on the bases and 10-15 hr's at a cheap price through '19. I wouldn't expect him to reproduce his Corrs #'s with us, but a regression to .270/.330/.400 with 30 steals and 12 HR's with a huge boost to our LF D is still pretty damn valuable to us. If they would do a package of Montas and 1 of Engel, May, Guerrero for him I'd do it in a heartbeat.

I assume Blackmon would be the easiest to get? Wonder if it would take much more than Montas? I would do Montas + May/Engel. But as always you have to be cautious about what you're getting away from Corrs though.

Trade Q, Laroche, and Avi to Houston for George Springer, Colin McHugh, and Colin Moran- my thinking is that Houston would rather get their pitcher they need without spending $100+M so the 1 year of Laroche is pretty manageable. Plus it looks like LaRoche could actually get some AB's with their 1B situation. Sign Gerrado Parra 2/16 M Eaton CF Melky DH Abreu 1B Springer RF Parra/Thompson (Trayce vs LH) LF Lawrie 3B Avila/Navarro C Micah/Sanchez 2B Saladino SS Sale Rodon McHugh Johnson Danks Turner Kahnle Jennings Petricka Duke Jones Robertson I'd love to put any one of the big free agent OF's instead of Parra and go for it all. Just tried to keep it realistic.

QUOTE (shakes @ Dec 11, 2015 -> 09:38 AM) Not really. Brian Anderson was an accomplished college player and a mid first round pick. He tore through the minors with big numbers and was a top 50 prospect in baseball. As a prospect he had it all speed, power, plate discipline, and gold glove defense. People are saying some players save their best for MLB, but who are they? Who else spent 6 years in the minors with pretty poor offensive minor league numbers and then went on to be a good MLB player? What is easy to show is players who had a good 150 at bat stretch and then reverted back to the player they always were. I was speaking more about the hype he's getting from fans rather than the actual play on the field. Should have clarified that The funny thing is that he didn't even have a good 150 AB stretch. It was more like 30 ridiculously good AB's followed by 90-100 bad ones. He managed to save his overall slash with his last 30 or so AB's, but take away his fluke start and he hit right around what you would expect a player with his minor league resume to hit. But I guess it's easier to ignore that part of the story.

QUOTE (SoCalSox @ Dec 10, 2015 -> 08:33 PM) That's an extremely unfair comparison for Thompson. He had 122 at bats, had a slash line of .295/.366/.533/.896 w/ 5 HRs and great defense. Let's give him a real chance & see what he has. I apologize for being realistic about the situation. Any reasonable person can actually look at Trayce's numbers with an unbiased eye and realize his chances of being a stater aren't great. It's not my opinion, it's statistics. The Anderson comparison is unfair I admit, but I was speaking more in terms of hype than play on the field. I think Trayce will definitely find a home on our team and shouldn't be traded at all...I just think that his home is as a defensive replacement/spot starter. Going into the season with him as a starter and no replacement plan besides Avi/Shuck would be a big mistake in my opinion. Unless we aren't spending $ for a playoff push....

I have a feeling Trayce is the new Brian Anderson. Just going to keep hearing about that defense and how he just needs a chance... I'd be more than happy to admit I'm wrong though. If Trayce can figure out how to stick as a (decent) major league hitter it would be a huge boost for the franchise.

QUOTE (Eminor3rd @ Dec 10, 2015 -> 07:47 PM) Maybe I'm confused -- what does that have to do with overvaluing the defensive contributions of a RF? Not a whole lot on that topic, but still on the discussion of defense being overvalued in my opinion. I originally had a longer message but my phone magically deleted it lol...essentially it suggests that defensive position is probably over valued in calculating war due to the fact that it hasn't been updated to the modern game. Only a .6 difference in war between Chris Davis and Jason Heyward according to that more up to date model. But I'm assuming someone such as yourself would laugh if a team gave Davis the same contract as Heyward but 2 years shorter. With increasing K's and advanced scouting that have shifts on every other at bat the idea of paying a guy based on defense is a gamble I wouldn't take. I don't think Heyward is worth a dime over $130M personally, 7 years 18M per. Guess we'll see who's right in the long run.

QUOTE (Eminor3rd @ Dec 10, 2015 -> 03:34 PM) There's been some talk/research over the last year or so about this -- there appears to be substantial evidence that the impact of a plus CF vs a plus corner OF is quite overrated. Essentially, when you control for catchability, zone overlap, and the actual difference between the high end defenders and low end ones, the CF doesn't receive nearly as many extra chances as people assume. http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/does-outfie...ctually-matter/ Funny, I started doing some research after I posted that and found this really interesting article on fangraphs as well. http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/are-we-unde...he-slugger-now/ Your article did make a good bit of sense though as far as the CF/RF thing goes, although in my opinion I'd say they are assuming kind of a lot with some of their #'s. Kinda shocking to me that we are still using data that is a decade+ old to evaluate current players though. Like I said, a like of the sabr stuff still goes over my head, but I don't think it takes a mathematician to figure out that the game has changed pretty drastically since the early 00's.

So much emphasis on defense...for a RF'er? If I'm responsible for paying an OF'er that isn't a huge run producer (Heyward isn't) he damn well better be 1 of the best defensive CF'ers in the game. I just don't see how a RF has that much impact on the game with his defense honestly. Maybe it's a crude/out dated way of looking at the game, but I just think defensive metrics have gone way out of control. Especially when we are talking about non premium defensive positions. And I am aware that Heyward is more than capable of playing CF, but there just isn't a large enough sample size of him doing it especially well for the kind of investment he's going to get in my opinion.

I would take a risk on either Fuenmayor or Blash as RH DH platoon options if either lasts til 10. I think we have the flexibility to carry an extra guy like that with Saladino, Sanchez, and Trayce having great versatility defensively. If not I always like the option of taking a kid who can throw 98 and seeing what happens. I've seen enough from the likes of Putnam, Webb, Carrol, ect to take a risk on someone new

QUOTE (BlackSox13 @ Dec 10, 2015 -> 12:48 AM) I wonder if the Sox change things up and talk to Cinci about Jay Bruce. He wouldn't cost the Sox top prospects, his contract should fit within the sox budget and provides power from the left side. Bruce makes 12.5M in 16 with an option for 13M in '17 with a 1M buyout. I'd rather find someone else but Bruce wouldn't be the worst option either. Only slight problem is that Jay Bruce forgot how to hit and isn't good in the field either. He's been a negative player for 2 straight years.

I don't think Corbin is comparable to Rodon honestly. And Q is better than Miller by pretty much every statistic you could use.

Anybody think Montas, Micah, Avi, and Jordan Guerrero gets it done for Frazier? And if so would you want to do it from our side?