TheFutureIsNear

I would definitely trade for Fowler and work out an extension with him. He would be absolutely perfect for us in the #2 hole....switch hitting high OBP guy who would likely be a + defender in LF. According to the article the asking price isn't that high, but they are looking for bullpen help...something we don't exactly have a ton of. Bassitt and Webb for Fowler and give him a 4 year $48M deal right away?

Despite being a finalist for the Gold Glove Alexei was pretty poor in every defensive metric you look at. -Fielding bible gave him a -10 rPM(+/-) runs saved - he had only a .734 defensive zone rating (he was in the .830's in his prime) - His UZR was -.7 (in the +10's in his prime) So honest question....given a natural slight decline due to age in Alexei would a platoon of Semien/Sanchez really be THAT much worse than Alexei next season? It's an honest question that you have to consider.

Ummm.....Brandon McCarthy. Why? I have no idea

QUOTE (Chicago White Sox @ Nov 21, 2014 -> 08:47 PM) But LaRoche doesn't prevent us building for the future. He costs us nothing but money and is blocking no one of importance (sorry Andy Wilkins). Also, I think Hahn believes a lot of key pieces are already in place. We have legit #1 & #2 starters, one of the best hitters in baseball, and a very good leadoff guy. We are obviously not a finished product by any means, but if Hahn can fill our major holes with capable veterans and a few of our young, non-proven players like Avi, Semien, Rodon, etc. take that next step, we have a decent chance of being a playoff team. Burning cost-controlled years of Sale, Quintana, Abreu, & Eaton by refusing to sign/trade for veterans is by far the worst thing we can do IMO. Like I said, not a huge deal. I'm not worrying about it... We'll agree to disagree on a lot of that though, except I'm in complete agreement that we have a great nucleus to build around. In my opinion we are like 3/4 of the way through the rebuild and there's no point in not finishing it. I'd much rather wait it out and build something potentially great than add veterans for a wild card run and cross our fingers from there. If it were up to me this would have been another off season of trying to add as much young talent as possible. But we'll see what happens....its early still and anything can happen.

QUOTE (daggins @ Nov 21, 2014 -> 08:34 PM) This is just money. There is no deviation from building here. It does in a way...can't go back from here. The idea of trading Alexei goes out the window, and even dumping Danks for a minimal return is also probably not going to happen either. And if you spend this $ on a 35 year old you pretty much have to spend the rest of whatever may be available the next 2 years or its an extremely pointless signing....I don't doubt we will still continue to build through the draft and international signings with Hahn in control, but I think this definitely signifies that the rebuild is over and they are focused on winning in the immediate future. And I don't think its quite the time for any of that for the record.

QUOTE (Chicago White Sox @ Nov 21, 2014 -> 08:25 PM) What direction would you prefer? Keep building for the future. Like I said, it's only 2 years so there isn't a ton to complain about, but I'm just not a fan of stop gap old players at this point. Unless Hahn has something big still hidden under his sleeve that would make us legit contenders...

Mehh not the direction I want to see the team going in honestly....but 2 years $25M isn't going to hurt anything so I won't complain

QUOTE (LDF @ Nov 21, 2014 -> 07:27 PM) I know you didn't mean this for me, but I am going to say something here. I believe the sox intentions is to compete this yr and I believe the sox do have the horses to make it to the playoff. And your're certainly entitled to your opinion, nor am I here to tell you that you're wrong. I'm just a guy stating his opinion after all. And It's my belief that this team truly has a very bright future with a great nucleus to build around. I just think the front office has to be patient and see this rebuild all the way through. I want this team to be building for multiple WS run starting in '17, not hoping for a wild card spot in '15.

QUOTE (witesoxfan @ Nov 21, 2014 -> 06:58 PM) No, we're comparing baseball players to baseball players. That is incredibly flawed logic that uses looks at correlation and assumes causation, as in, Alexei Ramirez is the reason the White Sox have not won. Frankly, that's got as much base in fact and logic as "they haven't won anything of significance since they started wearing their red pinstripe throwbacks or their 80s throwbacks." Because it's true - they haven't won s*** since wearing those uniforms - so that must be why they've been losing, right? If you had said this instead: there would have been no argument from me whatsoever. That's obviously what I meant and have stated several times in this thread already. I like Alexei and he's been a good player for us, of course he's not the reason this franchise hasn't won anything. But as you alluded to, if you're realistic you realize he's most likely not going to be around when this team will be competing for a WS therefore making him an obvious trade candidate.

QUOTE (LDF @ Nov 21, 2014 -> 06:49 PM) there is huge problems at other part of the team. Exactly! And how does a team get better? You either A) sign/trade for veterans with inflated contracts that you will inevitably regret, or B) you trade the veterans you have for more talent that can help you in the future. Do you really want to travel down path A again? Pretty sure we've seen that same song and dance before with KW in control.

QUOTE (witesoxfan @ Nov 21, 2014 -> 06:46 PM) Please try to use this argument in a serious manner in defense of trading away Adam Eaton, Chris Sale, Jose Abreu, and Jose Quintana. When any of those guys turn 33 and have only 2 years left with the team I will gladly do that for you. Until then you are comparing apples to.....skyscrapers.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Nov 21, 2014 -> 06:19 PM) The prize for having a good SS, is way bigger than having prospects. Got ya, so that's why we've been winning so many games with Alexei....oh wait.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Nov 21, 2014 -> 05:31 PM) Go back and look at that list of MLB SS's who started for teams during the time Jeter was the starting SS for NYY. That is why people are afraid to let Alexei walk. Who cares? Is there a prize at the end of the season for having a good SS that I'm not aware of? Last time I checked it's all about having the best overall team and the W column. And Alexei isn't Jeter, not even close.

QUOTE (witesoxfan @ Nov 21, 2014 -> 04:30 PM) And he will. It doesn't mean he has to deal him. Sooo what's the alternative? You let him play out his contract and watch him decline like all SS's do in their 30's and watch him walk? Honest question....is it a sentimental thing with Alexei? He's been here for a while so people don't want to see him go? Or is it that people think we are gong to compete next year?

For what it's worth Buster Onley ranked the top 10 SS's in baseball in an insider article today. http://insider.espn.go.com/blog/buster-olney/post?id=8669 According to the article he ranked them...."Through conversations with team evaluators, general managers and our own statistical analysts" to come up with this list. The list...and I'll put a breif synopsis of why each guy is ranked where they are according to Buster 1. Simmons- Basically he's by far the best defensive SS in the game is still young and fairly cheap. 2. Peralta- He's top 5 in both OPS and defensive runs saved among SS's the past 3 years. 3. Desmond- His combo of speed and power makes him a "dynamic" player 4. Tulo- If it wasn't for injuries he would be clear cut #1 5. Hardy- GG defense and 20 HR power make him one of the best 6. Crawford- Didn't say much....just that he's consistent and saves runs on D 7. Aybar- Consistent hitter who puts the ball in play and doesn't K 8. Alexei- (copy and pasted whole excerpt) He has some value in the trade market (see below). Justin Havens of ESPN Stats & Info sent along this note about his defense and offense: “He may be slipping defensively, at least as measured by defensive runs saved -- he’s gone from +14 to +1 to -4 since 2012. Also, through the end of May, he was hitting .329 with a .479 slugging percentage; after that, he hit .243 with a .370 slugging over a span of 423 plate appearances." 9. Escobar- Likened him to Hardy...consistent all around 10. Castro- shows flashes but his D is bad and isn't consistent enough Well there it is....feel free to pick it apart. And remember to save all rude comments for Buser Olney. I'm just the messenger.

a player has 1 bad year and he's pretty much dead to this board. Bruce had a fairly serious knee injury and it affected him all year. You can't just pretend like the guy didn't have an OPS above .800 the 3 years before last. If he was 34 it would be a serious concern, but he's freaking 27 and people are saying things like "deteriorate and decline"? There is such a thing as a down year.

Would anybody do Avi, Semien, and Montas for Bruce?

I would do my due diligence on him, but I'm going to go out on a limb and say he was DFA'd for a reason. 2 Tommy John's is rough. I'd say there's a good chance he 'll never even be close to the same.

Yeah no thanks on Laroche. He'd be a mediocre stop gap at DH. Not the best use of resources.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Nov 19, 2014 -> 10:15 AM) The White Sox have no reason to have to trade Alexei Ramirez. -They have publicly stated they are now looking to win this year (even if you don't believe it, which I don't think it is realistic). -Ramirez is under team control for up to two years at a HUGE bargain to what he would pull on the free agent market right now. My guess is he would be in the neighborhood of a 5/75 type deal if he were currently a FA. -The Sox have no payroll squeeze where they need to move the salary off of the books. If we don't get a big offer, there is literally no good reason to move Alexei. If we don't trade Alexei this year, either now or at the deadline, then we have a 34 year old SS with 1 year left on his deal...and then you get into the obvious that he's getting older and is due for regression sooner or later. Like it or not, this team most likely not going to compete for anything serious in 2015. All this nonsense that we are going to spend $50+M on free agents and go for a world series isn't going to happen. And quite frankly, I really hope it doesn't. That's not how you build a good franchise, and with the pieces already in place we(Hahn) has a chance to build something special if done the right way. Alexei is the last older player we have with any value and if you're realistic you realize he won't be around when this team is going to be true serious contenders. Getting the most you can for him now makes a ton of sense when you are thinking about what is best for the team in the long run.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Nov 19, 2014 -> 09:11 AM) Ewwwww. A completely lateral move, no salary savings at all, and Alexei sent out for a bullpen arm. This isn't Jed Hoyer trading with the Cubs right before being hired by them. Lol hate to break the news to you, but you're expectations are really far removed from reality. You should just prepare yourself to be disappointed already.

QUOTE (Chicago White Sox @ Nov 19, 2014 -> 07:15 AM) Alexei for Schebler and Ethier's contract? That's a horrible deal for us. No one is taking Ethier unless the Dodgers eat some serious money. That's just a bad use of our most valuable, tradable asset. I think a more realistic trade would be something like Either + about $18M or so in cash, Schebler, and Jose Dominguez (24 year old bull pen arm that can reach 100) for Alexei and Danks....maybe we can get 1 more prospect, not sure, but I can definitely see a deal like that getting done.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Nov 18, 2014 -> 08:12 PM) There's no one outside of their top guys that it benefits our team to take. It's a massive downgrade to the 2015 white sox no matter what they do to replace him - the free agents are worse than Alexei and might cost almost the same, the young guys we have are pretty weak SS candidates. Why on Earth should the White Sox do that unless it's a really big 2016 upgrade? I think you have delusions of grandeur for this team next year. We aren't going to be WS competitors next year...we are talking about the same 73 win team right? I expect upgrades and improvements, but this team needs to still have a future WS run in mind. A run that Alexei won't be apart of. Zach Lee Schebler Jose Dominguez Darnell Sweeney Chris Reed Alex Guerrero All of those guys are very interesting and sure would help our system out. 3 of them + Eithier(and cash) for Danks and Alexei and I would do it in a heartbeat.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Nov 18, 2014 -> 08:04 PM) Then the dodgers better be willing to hang their hopes for a playoff ride next year on the likes of Asdrubal Cabrera or Stephen Drew, or to spend 9 figures on Hanley Ramirez. They get to choose which thing they're willing to do. Or they could just make a reasonable offer that Hahn takes because it benefits our team?

I can think of a few reasons to trade Alexei now....and any thought of Pedersen/Seager is flat out ridiculous. Friedman would laugh and then hang up.