BlackSox13

QUOTE (fathom @ Feb 23, 2017 -> 01:40 PM) Heyman has article out today where a Nats source said WSox never acted like they wanted to really get rid of Robertson Maybe Rizzo wasn't offering enough to peak Hahn's interest? Maybe Hahn thanks he will get more for Robertson in June/July. Robertson usually gets off to a strong start so Hahn could be banking on that.

Some other things to be considered when talking about the catcher position. 1) Rodon's slider 2) Giolito's curve ball 3) Lopez' late moving FB and his curve ball. 4) Fulmer's curve ball 5) Q's curve ball 6) Robertson's curve ball 7) Jones, period. Movement on everything. Yep, I'm thinking defense first at the catcher position.

QUOTE (ptatc @ Feb 23, 2017 -> 11:46 AM) Officer Karkovice 2.0 Nice! I like the comp. With catchers I've always looked at defense/game calling/framing first and hope for at least an average bat. Two methods to my madness 1) 81 games are pitched in a launching pad 2) it's the AL so if the bat lags at the C position, there's is the luxury of having the DH to help compensate for that.

Another benefit could be that Severino might already be familiar with Giolito and Lopez. Not sure if he sure if their paths crossed in the minors.

QUOTE (soxfan2014 @ Feb 23, 2017 -> 11:04 AM) Yeah and you don't even need to set the world on fire with the bat to be considered an average hitting catcher. Right. Hit for a decent average and hopefully show good bat control to hit behind base runners and I'd be more than happy. Anything more than that would be a bonus.

QUOTE (soxfan2014 @ Feb 23, 2017 -> 06:26 AM) If a trade happened before the season started, you'd also have 2 years basically to evaluate Severino. Yep, he's just 23 years old. Severino is different in that his defensive skills are ahead of his bat which to me is promising. Usually the defense lags behind the bat when it comes to catchers. I know Severino has no power but if he can hit for a decent average he will be a gem to have behind the plate and in the lineup. Come on Rizzo, give it up just once more.

I like it. I think Buehrle holds a special place in all our hearts. Nobody could tarp dive better!

Well done on the new banner Kalapse. Really happy to finally see Q up there, he's earned it.

LMFAO, that beard looks like a bad Photoshop job. I can't stop laughing...

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Feb 22, 2017 -> 08:59 PM) I wouldn't worry too much about having TOO MUCH catching talent after the last five years of White Sox baseball. These things usually have a way of working themselves out...and we've always speculated that if Collins' hit tool is good enough, it would be easy to imagine him getting a fair amount of at-bats at DH to rest him from all the wear and tear you take at catcher. Considering the problems the Sox have had at the catcher position, I would welcome the idea of having too much talent at the position. If for some reason Severino sticks as an everyday catcher, Collins could be moved to 1B. Not like the Sox have any quality 1B prospects anyway and Abreu should be the DH if he's still with the Sox by the time Collins is ready. I'm not saying Collins won't stick at catcher but I'm not going to assume he will either. Passing on Severino because they already have Collins would be a bad idea and judging by the latest rumor, Hahn would agree.

I like Hahn's response to the TSA agents trade proposal. Great sense of humor Rick. As for JR. Meh, I'm not going to use this as an opportunity to take shots at him ( done my fair share through the years) because I don't know the inner workings of the Sox finances so I'm hesitant to say he could have increased payroll to help build a better club. I will say this though, I don't deny his love for the White Sox.

QUOTE (soxfan2014 @ Feb 22, 2017 -> 12:50 PM) Jones will still be valuable with 3.5+ years of control left. You can hold onto Robertson for the first few months and trade him. Jones could also be pitching very well and could be moved around then. Or he stays as closer the rest of the season and is moved in the off-season or traded deadline of 2018. I hear you. The second scenerio is more about trying to maximize the return for both players. If Robertson has a good first half he could net a bit more in July and If Jones can succeed as a closer the few last months of the season, the Sox could get more for him as a closer next winter than as a setup arm at the deadline. This would be the best way to maximize the trade value of both pitchers but is also more risky. Like I said, I'm glad I'm not Rick Hahn right now, lol.

QUOTE (witesoxfan @ Feb 22, 2017 -> 12:59 PM) He was about average defensively last year, and took the biggest hit in range. I wonder how much of that has to do with actually losing range, how he was set up defensively, how much had to do with adjusting to a new team and not knowing pitchers' tendencies, and how much is noise. Looking at the numbers, he didn't lose any speed from 2015 to 2016, and actually improved on routine plays. Also, the fact that he can play 3B and play it even fairly well makes him much more valuable than Chris Carter or other types like that. I think he's going to have a nice bounce back year. Had not considered the defensive alignment aspect of his drop off. Good call. Frazier can still snag the balls close to him and still has a strong arm so there's still hope. Right now there just isn't a market for Frazier but injuries happen so if Frazier can rebound in the first half of the season it could pay off for the Sox in July. I don't expect a big haul but a quality prospect it two would be nice.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Feb 22, 2017 -> 09:03 AM) Those are the changes that make a difference. Add this to making a pitcher stay on the mound, and a batter stay in the box, and we are in business. Yeah, this.^ Sweaty Freddy drove me nuts with his circling of the mound like Odie getting ready to go to sleep. Same with Garciaparra always stepping out of the box adjusting his batting gloves.

QUOTE (ChiSoxFanMike @ Feb 22, 2017 -> 12:19 PM) I don't know either, lol. What I do know, however, is that the Sox shouldn't trade Robertson for Severino straight up, even if Washington eats all the salary. I think Robertson is worth more than that. I'm straddling the fence right now. Half of me says take the trade straight up to get Jones into the closers role now and trade Jones in July. The other half of me thinks the Sox should hold out in hope of Robertson having a good first half to get even more for him in July, then plug Jones into the closers role and trade him for a haul next winter. The latter is more risky but has more potential for a higher return. Glad I'm not Rick Hahn.

Ouch. Just looked at Frazier's advanced metrics. His defense took a pretty good hit last season. It pains me to say it but Frazier is looking more one dimensional like Carter. Still think he has more value than Carter but not by much. At this point all I can hope for is that Frazier's glove and batting average rebound a bit to make him more appealing at the trade deadline.

QUOTE (ChiSoxFanMike @ Feb 22, 2017 -> 12:11 PM) Robertson is controlled through 2018 I believe. You're right, thanks Mike. For some reason I thought he had signed a three year contract like Melky. Now I'm even more confused on when to trade Robertson.

Starting to doubt Robertson will have more value at the deadline. Teams are more desperate at the deadline but by then Robertson will only be a 2-3 month rental. As others have pointed out, Robertson right now is not in the same tier that Chapman, Miller and Giles were at the time of their trades so we can't really use those trades to try and gauge Robertson's current value. If my doubts are correct then trading Robertson now would be the preferred time and allow Jones to become the closer with hopes of boosting his value even more for the July deadline. It's a risk a rebuilding team like the Sox can take.

I'd say 69-93 is pretty damn close with the current White Sox roster.

QUOTE (IowaSoxFan @ Feb 22, 2017 -> 10:56 AM) MLBTR is saying the Sox will eat money to get Severino for Robertson, so it sounds like it would be pretty much a straight up deal. You could be right. I had not read the blurb on mlbtr until after I wrote the post you quoted. Perhaps I'm overestimating Robertson's value ( not expecting alot to be honest) or underestimating Severino's. Kind of torn now. I really like Severino but somehow feel the Sox should get another piece if they are eating some money.

Just to be clear, nobody is saying Robertson for Severino straight up. It's just that some of us want Severino as part of the return for Robertson.

QUOTE (ChiliIrishHammock24 @ Feb 21, 2017 -> 10:21 PM) I definitely agree with this. If Jones can prove he can continue to be awesome, but as a closer, he could/should net a monster return. But he has to do it before teams will commit prospects for him. Exactly. Right now Jones is a very good setup pitcher but if he can establish himself as a closer, the return should be very good. I would gladly take a touch less for Robertson now and get more for Jones as a cliser in July. It's a bit risky but a risk I would take.

Like both equally Kalaspe but I would go with Q for the time being so he can be honored for the rest of his days as a White Sox pitcher. IMHO, Q has earned it. Once Q is traded we can switch to the Anderson, Rodon, Moncada banner. Again, great work.

Yep, Jose Abreu summed it perfectly. This change is just dumb.

Would Bobby Dalbec be too much to ask for Frazier? I doubt Boston has much interest in Frazier at this point so I'm just entertaining the idea.