BlackSox13

QUOTE (ptatc @ Feb 7, 2017 -> 11:08 AM) That's part of it. The other is his lack of strikeouts. He isn't a "dominant strikeout" guy. He has to pitch to contact which does make GM's about trading a TOR package for him and makes the "list" experts devalue him. Yeah, I think the lack of K's hurts his perceived value in trade negotiations but is also an excuse to try and cut the cost down. My counter-point to that are the facts that Q pitches half of his games in a hitter friendly band box and yet still puts up the numbers of #1 or #2 pitcher while pitching 200 innings per year. Q would be the best overall pitcher on the Astros staff and Luhnow knows it. Luhnow just needs a bit more time to give up his prospect coddling ways. Learning to let go is never easy at first,lol.

QUOTE (Chicago White Sox @ Feb 6, 2017 -> 07:41 PM) MLBpipeline's top 100 is already updated. QUOTE (CWSpalehoseCWS @ Feb 6, 2017 -> 07:55 PM) Astros have 4 guys in the MLB Top 100 Pipeline rankings: 20. Martes 35. Tucker 54. Paulino 84. Whitley After looking at that, I don't think the Sox can expect to get Musgrove + 2 top prospects, but Martes + Tucker would be a good starting point. Thanks guys. Turns out I've been looking at the 2016 top 30 for each team. Ouch, what happened to Fisher? Agree that Martes + Tucker should be the starting point. The value of Martes/Tucker is a bit less than Giolito/Lopez from the Eaton deal so IMHO it would take two more players to round out the trade.

Doubtful Robertson nets Fedde in a trade and no chance of Robles so that leaves Kieboom as the best starting point. Severino would give the Sox another catching option. Wouldn't mind snagging Cole as an option for the #5 spot. Cole couldn't be worse than watching Shields.

From BA on the '17 Astros top 10. Huge jump for Stubbs #10 and Perez moved up do #4. Anyone know when pipeline is going to update the top 100? 1. Francis Martes, rhp 2. Kyle Tucker, of 3. David Paulino, rhp 4. Franklin Perez, rhp 5. A.J. Reed, 1b 6. Forrest Whitley, rhp 7. Teoscar Hernandez, of 8. Yulieski Gurriel, 3b/1b 9. Derek Fisher, of 10. Garrett Stubbs, c baseballamerica.com

I think the only way the Nat's could get Q would be if they put Ross and Robles on the table. Not expecting that to happen. They're have enough for Robertson though. Just make sure Severino is in the package.

QUOTE (Quinarvy @ Feb 5, 2017 -> 03:06 PM) Q traded during half time of the super bowl. Book it. No, this cannot be allowed to happen during the Puppy Bowl!

QUOTE (steveno89 @ Feb 5, 2017 -> 03:33 PM) Whitley looks good, but his eta is 2020 at best. I don't mind him in a package, but the sox are looking for talent closer to the majors I think Again, is one year a big difference? The Sox aren't expected to contend until the '20 season anyway so a pitcher projected to debut in that time frame could be a good thing. Sticking with the same source in an effort to be consistent, mlb pipeline has Keller slated for '18 and Whitley/Perez for '19. Also, Tucker isn't expected until the '19 season so should we skip the idea of trying to acquire him as well? Dunning and Diaz aren't expected until '19 so should we have not traded for them? To count on all of Giolito, Lopez, Fulmer and Kopech to hit their ceilings and stick as MLB starters would be foolish. Must keep the talent flowing upwards towards the major league club. Prospects bust and players get injured so the more quality options a team has the better the chances of filling holes as they open up. No team is going to give up strictly mlb ready talent in a trade. The Sox need hitters and Houston has an abundance so I would target hitters that are closer to the majors as the package to build around with a young pitcher or two to round off that package. Given the Sox need for hitters. I would target Tucker and one of Reed/Fisher as the start of the package and go from there. Might get the Astros to bite on Reed, Tucker, Fisher and one of Laureano/Perez. Then again, I admit I'm higher on Reed and Fisher than most are so I can see how some might shy away from that proposal if they aren't so high on Reed and Fisher.

QUOTE (raBBit @ Feb 5, 2017 -> 02:31 PM) This article is from a few days ago. Might be the same stuff. Good point and I think you're right. Didn't realize til after I posted the article but I think I read this the night before it came out so it seems as though the article was new to me. Man, I really need to stop reading so much on Q talks. Pretty bad when I can't remember what I've already read. Need to unscramble my brain,lol.

Levine reiterating what he wrote a few days ago but the first sentence of the article is what got me. So Q getting traded is now a fact? That's pretty bold. I'm usually rather critical of Levine but he has remained consistent in regards to Q so perhaps he knows more than he's allowed to say? We will know soon enough I guess. http://chicago.cbslocal.com/2017/02/03/lev...-white-sox-ace/

I know the Sox are going to be tough to watch at times but dammit I miss baseball! Hurry up already.

The creators of Heavy Metal played their last show tonight. Long live Black Sabbath.

QUOTE (steveno89 @ Feb 4, 2017 -> 05:21 PM) Whitley is talented, but also is at least four years away from the majors at this point. That needs to be considered Keller is projected for an '18 debut and Whitley/Perez for '19. Is one year that big if a deal? Rebuilding is not just about building the next contender but a perennial contender for years to come. That means the Sox need to keep the young talent flowing upwards to the big League club. Another aspect to my desire for Whitley and/or Perez is taking pitching that is not as advanced as Martes and Paulino allows the Sox to target more advanced hitters in discussions with Houston. Just so happens that Houston prefers to keep its near ready pitching and have hitters available due to their backlog in the OF and 1B. Something along the lines of Tucker, Whitley, Fisher and Laureano. That's two top 50's, a top 100 and a flier which should put the package value somewhere between the Sale and Eaton trades.

QUOTE (Al Lopez's Ghost @ Feb 4, 2017 -> 01:17 PM) ZIPS is saying have a beer on them! Works for me. It's gonna be tough battling the Padres for that first spot. Man, the Padres really do suck. The White Sox might have to turn Black Sox to edge SD for that first pick. Gonna have to go the full nine men out this time.

QUOTE (rowand's rowdies @ Feb 4, 2017 -> 08:18 AM) Anyone think it's also in small part to the fact that most teams have now been burned at least once, sometimes many times by a big bad free agent signing? Which teams have been burned the most? Definitely a factor. Thinking off the top of my head over the last 20-30 years, the Yanks probably have the biggest laundry list of bad contracts. The list goes on and on for them. Boston has had some bad contracts too and then the Dodgers bailed them out with the Gonzalez/Beckett/Crawford trade. Panda's current contract is a shiny example of polished s*** and Hanley's contract is a bit ugly too. But yeah, the Yanks are the perfect example of bad contracts. Hendry handed out some bad contracts in his time running the north side team. In all fairness, the Dunn contract turned to s*** as well.

QUOTE (Al Lopez's Ghost @ Feb 4, 2017 -> 12:36 PM) Saw on twitter that ZIPS WAR projections are: SD 23 Sox 26 Reds 26 Mil 26 Oak 27 Atl 28 Phil 29 Angels 30 Min 32 Presumably that includes Q in our total So what you're saying is that the Sox are looking good for a top pick in the '18 draft?

QUOTE (bucket-of-suck @ Feb 3, 2017 -> 11:12 PM) Wow. Keller's ceiling is much more projectable and much higher than Whitley or Perez at this point. In fact, it's higher than most pitching prospects in the minors right now. Just a matter of preference. Whitley's plus FB can cut or run, has a plus CB, a CU that flashes plus, an average slider and has average control. His deep repertoire is what really hooks me since its a five pitch arsenal. Also like his big frame too. There's nothing wrong with Keller and I'd love to have him but if I had a choice it would be Whitley.

QUOTE (reiks12 @ Feb 3, 2017 -> 04:18 PM) His pucker? What kind of negotiator is Rick Hahn? No need to ask, he's a smooth operator.

QUOTE (steveno89 @ Feb 3, 2017 -> 02:15 PM) It's early to speculate on Rodon seeing is that he is under team control for 5 more seasons. If he is pitching well and the team is ready to contend then we absolutely will keep him around. We could shop him, but I think the Sox want to get back to contending sooner, rather than later Depends. Have to wait and see how the Sox pitching develops over the next few years. The Sox look to me like they are trying to build a steady flow of pitching working up towards the major league club so if some pitchers hit their ceilings Rodon could become one those pitching assets a team trades to fill a few holes in the lineup. It's just a nice option to have if the lineup needs a few finishing touches to be a contender in '19/'20. But if they need to keep him around to be the ace of a perennial contender for his last few seasons, there's nothing wrong with riding that horse all the way to FA.

QUOTE (Joshua Strong @ Feb 3, 2017 -> 03:55 PM) I have been banging the Perez drum for a while, he is a must to me in any deal with Houston. I think he will have the type of helium that Kopech has now next year, he reminds of me Jose Fernandez. I was thinking something like this as well. I think Perez has the potential to be in the top 100 a year from now.

QUOTE (ChiSox59 @ Feb 3, 2017 -> 03:54 PM) Look him up. Whitley has a bigger arsenal on a bigger frame and should add more velocity. Strikes me as a younger Glasnow/Hansen type. As of right now Whitley is #69 and Keller #72 in the top 100. My preference of Whitley over Keller is pretty reasonable.

Sounds like the Astros owner is seeing those picks as a way to help replenish their farm after trading prospects away for a pitcher. Sounds about right since those picks cannot be traded at this time. Maybe those picks loosen up Luhnow's pucker enough to actually get a deal done for Q.

QUOTE (hi8is @ Feb 3, 2017 -> 02:19 PM) See an argument for low level scouting by looking no further than how the Astros acquired Martes. Exactly. I think Whitley and Perez are being over looked in the board discussions. A few people have mentioned Perez though. If people were OK with including Keller in a trade with Pitt then I see nothing wrong with going after Whitley and Perez. Hell, I would rather have Whitley than Keller.

QUOTE (steveno89 @ Feb 3, 2017 -> 12:37 PM) Whitley and Perez certainly have upside, but each are a considerable distance away from the major leagues, which has to be a consideration Guys like Moncada, Giolito, Lopez, Collins, Fulmer, Hansen, Dunning, Burdi are not more than two years away from the majors. We need to make sure that we balance the rebuild so that we are firing on all cylinders when ready to compete again. I doubt Houston would part with 5 players for Q. I see any deal being 3-4 players at the end of the day Tucker is just as far away as Whitley and Perez so should we leave Tucker out of the deal as well? Should we have not traded for Basabe, Dunning and Diaz because they haven't played above A ball? Also, Kopech isn't expected to be ready until 2019. He needs that time to build up his innings because he is behind due to his two set backs ( fight/PED suspension. The Sox have Giolito, Fulmer and Lopez at Charlotte. Kopech, Guerrero, Adams and Stephens at Birmingham. Whitley and Perez would be great additions to Hansen and Dunning in A ball. Think of them in waves. 1St wave is Giolito, Lopez and Fulmer. 2ND wave is Kopech, Stephens, Adams and Guerrero. 3rd wave is Hansen, Dunning, Whitley and Perez. That's pretty good balance from A-AAA and those waves would come over the next three years. Given the depth of the Sox pitching I would rather take a few really young pitchers (Whitley/Perez) so the trade can focus on getting close to major league ready hitting such as Reed and Fisher.

QUOTE (soxfan2014 @ Feb 3, 2017 -> 12:15 PM) I think I would take Martes (#1), Tucker (#2), Fisher (#5), Stubbs (#30). Is this too light, too much, or close? To be honest, I don't need Martes to make a deal happen. I'm to the point I prefer trying to acquire bith Whitley and Perez in place of Martes. I would shoot for Tucker, Whitley, Fisher, Perez and Stubbs. Imo, the value of that package should sit between the Sale and Eaton packages. Three top 100's and two fliers would be a nice little haul for Q.

QUOTE (soxfan2014 @ Feb 3, 2017 -> 09:41 AM) Looking at Fisher's numbers, I actually want him but as a 3rd or 4th piece. Dude looks like he can run, has power and can take a walk. Left handed bat. Also plays center. He reached AAA last season and is going into his age 23 season. Definitely someone who could be ready for a call-up around mid-season most likely (hopefully by that time, Melky would be dealt). Agree. Fisher is another name that does not get mentioned enough. Fisher reminds me a bit of Colby Rasmus, which I'd be fine with acquiring as a third or fourth piece. Would be nice having a left fielder that can run and hit for some pop.