BlackSox13

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Jan 7, 2017 -> 07:16 PM) Except Preston Tucker, Reed and Marisnick all have lower value now...and there's no clear CFer. Singleton and Grossman were flops with Houston. That has been determined, at least. If anything, 2015 pushed the 2017 Astros/Cubs timetable up by one year. But yeah, they're short at least one quality pitcher, and two if McCullers can't stay healthy. They look a lot like the 2016 Blue Jays right now. It's not about prospect value this year, it's about giving their highly coveted youth another year to develop and potentially fill holes between now and next winter. It's a moot point since the Astros are going for it anyway, it's just a year early imo.

I think the Astros are pushing things one year ahead of time. They really should have used the '17 season as a development year to see how young pitchers like McCullers, Musgrove, Paulino, Martes and hitters Bregman, Gurriel, Reed, Fisher, Hernandez progress. Then they would know what they had going into next winter when there will be plenty of FA pitching and hitting available and could dangle P.Tucker and Springer to get them some pitching. With what they have on their 40 man roster now along with what they have on the farm that could come up this season, they could have a wicked young core of hitters and pitchers for many years to come. Signing Reddick and Beltran took ab's away from hitters they are reluctant to trade. But hey, cheers to the Astros going for it because I think they know they need stability in their rotation so in the end they really have to part with a few pieces they may not want to part with to get Q. Now that I think about it, all that s*** can be said about the Pirates and their young talent so cheers to them for being in need of pitching too. Now, would one of those teams drop their knickers already and give it up.

After reading more about Garcia's power potential, strong arm , high k-rate and low walk rate, Tank's face immediately popped into my head. I'm not saying that's a good or bad thing, just that's who Garcia reminds me of.

QUOTE (Feeky Magee @ Jan 6, 2017 -> 10:01 PM) Not seeing too much of Derek Fisher's name but he'd definitely be a name I'd be targeting. Projects as the #33 prospect in baseball per Fangraphs' KATOH statistical projection system (highest Astro aside from Bregman), in 2016 hit .245/.373/.431 at AA and .290/.347/.505 at AAA. Probably limited to left-field but a plus runner. Plus Fisher has some speed so maybe he can develop into a decent LF with plus range to help compensate for the weak arm. Has also shown the ability to draw walks. He will start at AAA this year but definitely has potential to be a mid season callup. Really like that he has power from the left side too. Edit: oh and I also like the idea of Reed too. I know he had a tough ML debut last year but his numbers at AAA were pretty good.

Engel and Clark for me.

Rogers latest. Nothing new really, just some reading material next time y'all are on the s***ter. You're welcome. http://m.mlb.com/news/article/213028800/as...quintana-trade/

QUOTE (Con te Giolito @ Jan 6, 2017 -> 05:56 PM) I'm a fan of including Frazier to grease a deal or enhance the return. I also think if there's a pitcher from the Astros the Sox should want its Franklin Perez, he absolutely bulldozed A-ball as a 18 year old. Kinda like Tucker, you're buying this guy now because its possible he'll be in the top 10 this time next year. I'd probably rather have him than Martes, to be honest. With ya on Perez and actually prefer him over Paulino.

QUOTE (DirtySox @ Jan 6, 2017 -> 05:52 PM) Based on what? Can we stop with the s***posting? Based on the theorem that a troll is gonna be a troll.

QUOTE (peavy44 @ Jan 6, 2017 -> 05:37 PM) No way they give us 5 players for Q You completely missed the point of my post, the post I responded to and the posts that led to the post I responded to.

QUOTE (Quinarvy @ Jan 6, 2017 -> 05:03 PM) Time for which trade you'd prefer: Trade A: Quintana + Frazier for Bregman + Martes + Stubbs Trade B: Quintana for Martes + Tucker + Stubbs + Fisher + Laureano For me this is really close and I would like both deals but if I have to choose one I'd take B.

QUOTE (shipps @ Jan 6, 2017 -> 03:22 PM) Maybe no Tucker in the deal because it will include BREGMAN and the world would stand in awe. I'm all for the " awe " part, would be great. If, somehow, Hahn was able to snag Bregman I would bet Frazier would be joining Q in Houston.

QUOTE (DirtySox @ Jan 6, 2017 -> 03:00 PM) Speaking of the Astros, OF Ramon Laureano is an interesting prospect. He had stupid numbers last year. Sickels has him number 7 on his list, whereas Baseball America doesn't even have him in the top 10. Wonder how the White Sox feel about him. We are on the same page. I like Laureano too as well as Jason Martin who put up some nice power numbers at high A and hits from the left side. Also like Stubbs too.

Random thought here but I wonder if Bregman coukd be available if both Q and Frazier were going to Houston. Luhnow likes HR's so it's possible he might be interested in Frazier.

QUOTE (Eminor3rd @ Jan 6, 2017 -> 02:48 PM) Do you read the s*** that WE type sometimes? Absolutely dude and and I am one of those offenders of crazy trade proposals. But I think Sox fans here are overall more practical than what I've read from Yanks, Boston and Astros fans this winter. The Pirates fanbase has been extremely practical imho, and I've gained alot of respect for those fans because it shows they not only know their own team well but have a very practical understanding of Q's value. Definitely some knowledgeable baseball fans.

QUOTE (Special K @ Jan 6, 2017 -> 02:12 PM) Bregman or bust. Otherwise use them as trade bait for the Pirates. None of their positional player prospects are as enticing as the Pirates. Bregman isn't happening and if we're the Astros I wouldn't trade him for Q either. The Astros have some really nice position player prospects depending on what one is interested in. Fisher and Hernandez are very interesting prospects that project to debut in '17. Then there's youngsters such as Tucker, Laureano, Stubbs's and Martin that are at least a few years away but still very interesting. They also have Reed who mashed in AAA but struggled in his MLB debut. Imo, the Astros have more than enough positional talent worth trading for. The real question is are they willing to part with it. As for the Pirates. They are an ideal fit provided Glasnow and at least one of Bell/Meadows is in the return but if the Pirates are bullish and want to keep both Meadows and Bell ( it's been rumored) then the Pirates are better off trading for one of the Dodgers broken down pitchers because Huntington obviously isnt ready to play with the big boys just yet. Huntington wants the best pitcher on the trade market but doesn't want to give up his best prospects which is a trade killer. I hope Huntington proves me wrong but going by how the Pirate fanbase feels about their GM I wouldn't count on Huntington's balls to drop anytime soon.

QUOTE (IowaSoxFan @ Jan 6, 2017 -> 01:53 PM) Lawrie is probably likely to be traded before Frazier. How so? Frazier is a 3B run producer whereas Lawrie is an injury riddled 2B with a really nice vertical leap and a "brah".

QUOTE (Quinarvy @ Jan 6, 2017 -> 01:31 PM) I like Coats Me too, especially on cold winter days.

Cunning move by Hahn waiting for the Pirates to release Garcia so that he's not included in the haul for Q. Sheer genius! Seriously though. I like the addition of Garcia due to his strong arm and power potential. Plus, a good spring training could solidify him in RF which IMO is better than the alternative.

Wasn't Ashe mentioned by someone here last winter as a potential trade target? Name sounds familiar.

QUOTE (illinilaw08 @ Jan 6, 2017 -> 12:28 PM) Don't want to clutter the new thread, but if Gammons is right that the Astros are coming back with an offer for Q similar to the offer that was turned down for Archer (Martes/Tucker/Paulino + 2 other prospects), I suspect things will start to move quickly. Pirates can obviously beat that offer, but it will definitely put the pressure on the Pirates to make their best and final offer. Glad you posted this, I was just about to do it myself. Sounds like the Astros shifted away from Q due to the asking price, shifted their focus elsewhere only to find that other teams want alot for their pitching so now the Astros come crawling back for the best available pitcher. So now that the Astros have come full circle, I agree that it sounds like things are picking up.

QUOTE (soxfan2014 @ Jan 6, 2017 -> 12:23 PM) Pirates fans seem most reasonable due to desperation haha when the Sale talks were going on, there was an Astros fan that tweeted at WSD that Bregman is a future HOF. And Sale isn't? (assuming he stays healthy and keeps putting up the numbers he has) Yeah, Pirates fans are much more realistic and i wish a few of them were GM's. I read an article yesterday by a Pitt writer that said the Pirates should trade Meadows, Glasnow and Bell for Q. Man do I wish that guy was the Pitt GM.lol. Good call on the Astros fans. They say similar things about Q that the Yankee fans do. Quite humorous.

Laughing at the latest Yanks-Q articles and the comments that follow. Yanks fans want the best available pitcher in Q only to turn around and try to point out flaws to devalue Q and all the while talk about which of their prospects are untouchable. Good grief they are more unrealistic than Boston fans.

QUOTE (elrockinMT @ Jan 6, 2017 -> 11:15 AM) After you read some of these posts, which go to great pains to bash Sox players like Abreu, Frazier, Quintana etc you come away wondering why we even field a team Ive seen no bashing at all. Its quite logical to point out Abreu's numbers are trending downwards because you can bet that any GM calling about Abreu is going to point that out when Abreu's value is discussed. Same with Frazier's low BA and high k-rate that really hurt his value along with the fact there's plenty of power bats in FA and a very small demand for third baseman. As for Q, there has been no bashing in this thread or the Q thread and in fact the high expectations of a return from a Q trade show how highly he is valued by those participating in the threads about Q. The real bashing will start when people see what Abreu and Frazier being back in return.

QUOTE (Con te Giolito @ Jan 5, 2017 -> 04:33 PM) The Rays said no??? Im just as surprised as you. I like Gammons but I have a difficult time believing the Rays said no to that deal offer.

QUOTE (Chicago White Sox @ Jan 4, 2017 -> 08:34 PM) Astros & Pirates still make the most sense for Quintana. If these were the offers, which deal would you prefer? Astros: Martes, Tucker, Reed, Sierra Pirates: Glasnow, Bell, Hayes, Garcia As much as I like Glasnow and Bell I'd take that Astros package.