BlackSox13

Per Crashnick: "Sources say Greinke is looking for a 5 or 6 yr deal. He wants AAV above Price. That means $31.5M or $32M a year." Sweet jeebus! Supposedly down to the Giants and Dodgers. I'm guessing the Giants are trying to drive the price up on the Dodgers.

QUOTE (ChiSoxFanMike @ Dec 1, 2015 -> 05:48 PM) The big question I'm wondering is if they'll stay on the Sox after those deals are over. As long as the Sox keep doing a good job of scouting and developing pitching, I could honestly care less. Let em both go to FA and cash in, as long as its another team paying the obscene price.

QUOTE (SoxPride18 @ Dec 1, 2015 -> 05:36 PM) Like others have said, this deal makes Sale & Quintana's trade value sky rocket. They are not trading either of them. 1000% agree. The Sox cannot afford to trade such cheap pitching and no team will offer up full value so I expect Sale and Q to fulfill their contracts. That makes me a happy Sox fan.

QUOTE (LDF @ Dec 1, 2015 -> 04:26 PM) you just got me thinking on the rtn that Q or Sale trade could get the sox.... the price of their contracts, who wouldn't trade a hunk of their farm for them. I think the question is, who would trade the farm? It was hard to imagine their values before but now, sheesh! I don't see any team giving up true value for Sale or Q. I give Hahn tons of credit for getting those two locked up long term. Imo, today's market dictates the Sox cannot afford to trade Sale or Q no matter how bad the offense is.

Ha ha, the values of Sale and Q just went up. I guessed Price would end up with the Dodgers but Boston isn't too surprising given their history of signing big free agents and their need for a #1. Up next next, Cueto to the cubs? J/K

QUOTE (ChiSoxFanMike @ Dec 1, 2015 -> 12:15 PM) If this happened, I'd like to see Sanchez and Saladino flip flop their roles on the team. I don't know how good of a shortstop Sanchez would be at the MLB level, but he's younger than Saladino and has more upside IMO. According to this quote from an August '14 Daily Herald article, Sanchez can play SS. "I am an natural second baseman, but I can play shortstop as well," Sanchez said. "Obviously, I feel more comfortable at second base only because I have played more at second base. But I also feel comfortable at shortstop." I think Saladino has the better arm for SS and Sanchez's bat would play up better at 2B. Sanchez looks right at home at 2B but in the event the Sox picked up a 3B and 2B, I won't complain if Sanchez went to SS. I agree that Sanchez has more upside and I refuse to give up on a 23 year old switch hitter that has a very good glove, range and runs the bases well. Just need his bat to come along some more and he'll be a starter for years to come.

New 2016 White Sox slogan. " Come to US Cellular Field for the organ and we invite you to stay for the game".

I can appreciate the nostalgia of the oragn as I grew up hearing it but it is being sold for charity so its really not a problem with me.

QUOTE (WhiteSoxLifer @ Dec 1, 2015 -> 09:38 AM) Sox should only carry one of saladino or sanchez unless their bats heavily improve. We saw how much the improved the defense last year but the offense really affected the team along with others. The Sox pitching staff put up a 3.98 era good for 14 in baseball. The Sox offense put up 622 runs which is 28 in baseball. That's 3.84 runs per game which is less the what the pitching staff have up. Sox really need to get offense at this point. I hear ya and agree. I can live with Saladino/Sanchez up the middle for one season to see if their bats come around but my preference would be to get a SS, play Sanchez at 2B and use Saladino as the utility/platoon type. Problem with that is short stops are about as hard to come by as third baseman. One idea could be to sign Freese to play 3B, trade for Lawrie to play 2B, start Saladino at SS and use Sanchez as the utility. I still prefer Saladino as the utility due to his defensive versatility. The have their work cut out for them this off season.

QUOTE (Vance Law @ Nov 30, 2015 -> 10:33 PM) I wouldn't worry about the vesting option. it's not tough to avoid him getting 1,100 plate appearances over his last 2 seasons if he's not producing. Good point, I didn't know the deal behind his vesting option. I'll take a chance on Hanley at three guaranteed years worth roughly 34M. Kinda funny how this thread has turned out considering how it started, eh Vance.

QUOTE (CaliSoxFanViaSWside @ Dec 1, 2015 -> 07:30 AM) But it will be. More ammo for the NL vs. AL war. I don't expect his ERA to be under 4.00 . That TJ surgery arm only has a certain amount of time in it. I'm not impressed at all with Zimmermann. Look at the teams Zimmermann faced in the NLE as far as runs scored. Philli ranked 27th, the Braves ranked 29, the Marlins ranked 30th and the Mets 17th who's offense was bad before they made trades at the deadline and became one of the top offenses in the second half. Overall, Zimmermann faced some pretty pathetic offenses within his division despite Philli owning him to the tune of a 7.27era, lol. Oh and if his inter- league ERA of 4.91 is any kind of sign, the Tigers will be regretting this contract in no time. I'm glad Detroit signed him.

QUOTE (Saufley @ Dec 1, 2015 -> 08:18 AM) If Lawrie can add some good defense maybe it makes sense. I too don't see the Sox spending a lot to get a big bat. With our good starting pitching the defense on the field needs to be a big upgrade. Try to win those 1-0, 2-1 and 3-2 games. Not sure what happened to Lawrie in '15 but his defense was average or better before that and since he's just shy of 26 I see no reason why he cannot get back to playing solid defense. I agree about upgrading the defense on the field. It's why I'm fine with giving Sanchez 2B and see if his bat comes around. Same with Saladino at SS if the Sox are unable to find a fit for that position. If the Sox end up going with Lawrie, Saladino and Sanchez it would leave funds available for the Sox to trade for an impact outfield bat (CarGo) that has a higher salary. I know Saladino and Sanchez aren't good hitters but its possible they can make up for that with their defense which would be pretty damn good up the middle of the infield. As bad as the Sox need offense, I'm pretty much thinking to upgrading the defense first and foremost because of the pitching staff.

QUOTE (LDF @ Nov 30, 2015 -> 09:18 PM) but they also failed in hector sucking big time. that did not help. last yr was just a nightmare. but spending 120 mil and i am talking about spending 150 mil. that would be them on the cusp of their profit, according to what i have been able to pencil together. but that is for another time. but for this discussion, this will put them in the red.... for 1 yr .... 28 mil comes off and now its 122. and the team would have done wonders in piecing the team they can live or want. Every team takes gambles that don't work out. One way to look at it is by Noesi being so bad, he opened the door for Rodon. If the Sox had signed a FA pitcher last winter, Rodon might not have gotten the opportunity when he did not have accumulated the innings or MLB experience. Sometimes s*** just works itself out. I'm going to leave this part alone now just because the conversation is teetering on the brink of how much we may or may not think the Sox had or have to spend. I don't know so its better if I stay away from the speculation on White Sox finances and stick with what is known. I prefer to stay focused on what they will do to help the team going forward, not where they have gone wrong.

QUOTE (LDF @ Nov 30, 2015 -> 09:10 PM) i wasn't angry, i just got confuse.... my mind, what little there was, was spinning with all sorts of counters. i just left to get some rest and now i am back. i still don't know what my point was. but i am with you, i too have faith in Hahn and that is if the powers to be would not handicap him. so may ways to go right now. but i really do not want to so to sign upton. i understand if they do, but a waste of money. be creative and make some trades. I really don't think the Sox will sign Upton. Too costly in salary for what the Sox have to spend. Maybe I've just got my hopes up but a trade for Lawrie just sounds like a move the Sox would make. I mean that in a good way.

QUOTE (LDF @ Nov 30, 2015 -> 07:55 PM) it cost the sox 2 mil.... to have a fake injury. but my point is that was all they spent. they should have had another sp as in emergency, and they didn't. just spend enuf and call it a day. same thing with hector last yr, conor last yr. just the bare minimum, instead of a couple and let them compete against each other. I see what you mean with Noesi but Gillaspie played well enough in '14 for the Sox to roll with him plus he is left handed. Also, I think the SOX got caught with their pants down waiting/hoping/praying that Davidson would come around. We all know the story there, lol. I agree about options and I honestly think that even if the Sox were to sign Hwang they would still look to get Lawrie since he can play 3B/2B and won't cost much as far as salary or trade chips are concerned.

QUOTE (GreenSox @ Nov 30, 2015 -> 07:57 PM) Well they'll have to do something like it if they want to get rid of him. Nobody is going to give value or take anywhere near all of that salary. You aren't kidding. No team is that crazy or stupid. Maybe Boston would be enticed by the idea of one year of LaRoche -45M when compared to being stuck with Ramirez for potentially four more years and 90M.

QUOTE (LDF @ Nov 30, 2015 -> 08:06 PM) you know.... you really got my goat.... i wounded up writing gibberish... i really do not know what in hell was the point i was going for. dang. Relax, have a drink on me. We have plenty of time left in the off season to get the team pointed in the right direction. I still have faith in Hahn.

QUOTE (LDF @ Nov 30, 2015 -> 08:02 PM) you are looking at the lite at the end of the tunnel, so to speak. last yr, money was spent and i was happy, but i really wanted another pitcher. but either way, they didn't spend and it was a lousy season. the 2 were not related. the crosstown team is at 110 and looking to increase their payroll as you said to 130-140. i think they will hit the 150 range. now for me, i do not follow them so i wouldn't know if they are solvent at 130-150. and i am not comparing them against each other on this whole thing. i am talking and i will be more precise, the payroll before last yr was set and etc.... i will not go into that whole thing. suffice it to say, all during the time the sox had a strict budget. But they did spend. Robertson, Melky,LaRoche, Duke and added Samardzija's 9.8M to the payroll so they did spend plenty. They probably didn't add another pitcher because they had been anticipating Rodon joining the team at some point, which he did. The point in all this is that the Sox have showed they are willing to spend and make an effort. It could be much worse, we could be Marlin fans!

QUOTE (LDF @ Nov 30, 2015 -> 07:31 PM) and they should, but they won't. it is not like them to do that. remember the signing and all the pr flak on Felipe Paulino and that he is the real thing. I just posted this in another thread but the Sox spent pretty big last year so while there were some duds in '15 it does show the Sox are trying. Paulino's hype was built around his stuff and upside but we all knew there was risk with him coming off of surgery. It's not like Paulino cost the Sox big money. He was the typical low risk high reward type of signing, unfortunately the high reward part didn't come to fruition.

QUOTE (LDF @ Nov 30, 2015 -> 07:25 PM) but you are missing an important ingredient, as long as it fits in a miserly budget that is called the sox payroll. Sorry my man but I have to stick up for the Sox on this one and point a few things out. 1- they spent last winter and things didn't go well but they did show an effort to improve some areas so that gives me some faith they will continue to improve. 2- we don't know what the budget has been set at. 3- the crosstown rivals are looking at a budget in the 130-140M range which is just a tick more than where the Sox could end up. When comparing their respective attendances, that's kind of surprising to see the two budgets that close. It wasn't long ago the Sox were up to 128M so don't lose hope yet.

QUOTE (LDF @ Nov 30, 2015 -> 07:18 PM) i agree they are in no position to select one player and assume that he will succeed, they need to cast a wide net and bring in many as they can of players at least to continue with this elusive 3 yr plan the FO has step up. I think they will continue searching for talent. Let's say the Sox win the bid and sign Hwang, they can still trade for a guy like Lawrie and/or even your favorite... CarGo!

QUOTE (TheFutureIsNear @ Nov 30, 2015 -> 07:06 PM) I think that should be a pretty telling sign that the real problem with this organization and developing talent in the past starts with actually picking the talent and not developing it. Not that the developing part has gone swimmingly either, but it gets a lot harder to develop talent when the talent is flawed from the beginning. Well said and absolutely agree. I give the Sox credit for making changes within the organization to help out with scouting/drafting/development and it would seem there is some hitting talent beginning to filter up through the minors, slowly but it seems on the rise. Time will tell.

I like Hwang's defense, that's for sure. This would be a good move for a few reasons. 1- Hwang's defense 2- he won't cost a pick to sign 3- he won't cost prospects or young MLB talent. 4- Sox can then use prospects and/or talent ( Avi/Micah/Sanchez/EJ/Saladino, Montas) to find a SS and or OF. There's risk involved but let's face it, the Sox are in a position where they must take a few risks.

QUOTE (LDF @ Nov 30, 2015 -> 03:33 PM) true and if i was trading for him, hello drug test for everything. Nah, he just needs to be tested for antipsychotic's to make sure he is taking them. Which I don't believe he is...

Too many offensive holes to fill to waste resources on more pitching. The Sox need to remain focused on acquiring young hitting talent. Just a friendly reminder that the Sox were 28th in runs scored last season.