BlackSox13

QUOTE (soxfan2014 @ Nov 30, 2015 -> 04:57 PM) Would Hanley be the primary DH in this situation? I could live with that as long as we don't have to see him play the outfield. Definitely DH. The Sox could work with Hanley on the side to help his fielding in an effort to be Abreu's backup at 1B. Not something I would count on but working with him on the side won't hurt.

QUOTE (GreenSox @ Nov 30, 2015 -> 04:52 PM) So your proposal is Hanley + 1/2 his salary for Laroche? Too many years, but that would be okay. One worry is that he is kind of a headcase though and headcases generally get worse under Sox leadership. Well, I'm just stating what it would take to change my mind. I've been against the Hanley idea from the start of this thread but for that proposed deal, I must admit I would have a difficult time saying no. I really don't want him and I agree that he is a bit of a head case but I still think there's plenty of life left in his bat. His salary and lack of a defensive position is what turns me off and why I would have to insist LaRoche was part of the deal. FWIW, I don't think Boston would actually do that deal. Then again, they have made trades in the past where they dumped high salary players through trades. The Dodgers know all about that.

QUOTE (LDF @ Nov 30, 2015 -> 03:31 PM) i think he had elbow surgery and knee surgery. http://www.csnchicago.com/white-sox/elbow-...t-micah-johnson i didn't know about the shoulder. but i concern as well the sox FO is his throw from the OF may hurt his elbow again. My bad, it was his elbow. Thanks for correcting my memory.

QUOTE (knightni @ Nov 30, 2015 -> 03:00 PM) Is it possible that Micah could be a decent LF? I wondered the same thing last year but I believe it was NorthSideSox that pointed out Johnson had surgery on his shoulder and that long throws from the outfield would only put strainon it. IIRC.

QUOTE (Knackattack @ Nov 30, 2015 -> 02:23 PM) What evidence do we have of Sanchez being able to play SS in a pinch? And Sanchez was abysmal with the bat last year, still grading out as a negative WAR player even with a 4.4 UZR rating... Micah should be given every opportunity to show that he can field 2b at an acceptable level because his bat's upside (not to mention his baserunning) makes his potential much higher than Sanchez' Here's a link to said evidence. http://www.baseball-reference.com/register...id=sanche008car Sanchez can play SS in a pinch and the point is that defensively speaking, Sanchez holds more value than Micah due to Sanchez's versatility. As for Sanchez's bat, I've already explained where I'm coming from and why, so I'm not going to repeat. Another hangup I have with Micah are the injuries he's had on and off for two seasons now. That combined with piss poor defense does not warrant much confidence. If the Sox decided to go with Micah at second, that's fine with me, just keep Sanchez close by because he's likely to be needed again at some point.

QUOTE (WhiteSoxLifer @ Nov 30, 2015 -> 01:56 PM) Don't think you really want to waste more development of saladino as a utility player at this point until he plays into one. If he isn't having continuous at bats then he probably should be in the minors playing everyday. Also you say if Micah can't field it makes him expendable but if Sanchez can't hit then he should become expendable as well since his really only position is 2nd. Sanchez is only 23 and great with the glove which is why I'd like to see him continue to play 2B and get at bats to see if his bat improves during the '16 season. Plus, if necessary he can play SS. Saladino is the IF defensive Jack of all trades that every team looks for in a utility/platoon type player but if the Sox decide to roll with Saladino at SS i wont complain. Micah is expendable because he only plays 2B and his lousy there so unless the Sox give him time at DH, I see no point in keeping him if another team is interested in trading for him.

I've been staunchly against the idea of trading for Hanley but if Boston is willing to eat half of his salary, half of the 2019 vesting option and take LaRoche, I think my mind could be changed. In total, the Sox would be on the hook for about 45M through the '19 season. I think Hanley's bat is worth 11M per year.

QUOTE (WhiteSoxLifer @ Nov 30, 2015 -> 01:30 PM) Yes I know what he is saying and what you are both implying is a hypothetical. How about the reverse hypothetical were you can't find a better 3rd baseman and the Sox traded away Micah and they have Sanchez hitting like crap and need to upgrade him offensively but can't do it within cause they traded the little depth that had now they have to go outside the organization to fI'll it. That's what I'm getting at to not trade the little depth the Sox have for middle infielders One thing to keep in mind and while it doesn't say much, Lawrie is an upgrade at third over what we've seen the last two or three seasons. Another thing is that even if the Sox trade for Lawrie and use Micah to get him, the Sox are still looking for a SS and with Sanchez at 2B, Saladino becomes the utility who can play all three of those positions well. Micah has a nice bat but there's no room in the lineup with the current roster and we all know about his defense. If Micah cannot field 2B, there's nowhere to put him and that makes him very expendable in a potential trade. I'm not saying he will be traded, there are others I'd rather see traded first but I wouldn't hesitate on trading Micah either.

QUOTE (lasttriptotulsa @ Nov 30, 2015 -> 01:00 PM) The difference between the Pirates and the White Sox is the DH. Pedro Alvarez is a horrid defender and that is the reason that he may be non-tendered. Any value that his bat has is completely negated by his defense. If the Pirates had a DH spot in the lineup that's where he would be. That being said, I think AL teams would be better off looking at Alvarez and NL teams at LaRoche. That's a huge point you make about Alvarez being horrid on defense and the Pirates not having a DH spot to stow him away at. I don't think the Pirates will have a problem finding an AL team willing to take on Alvarez at 8M. LaRoche is a different story since he's essentially a first baseman with no power at a high cost. Hope I'm wrong but I just don't see him being traded. The only thing I can think of would be to trade LaRoche + 5M for Alvarez. To be honest, I think the Pirates can do better in a trade involving Alvarez.

QUOTE (spiderman @ Nov 30, 2015 -> 12:59 PM) No team will take him based purely on a want; it would have to be to trade one bad contract for another, and hope a change of scenery makes a difference. I haven't looked, but I'm not even sure what teams have gaping holes at 1B (or DH) and who have a similar player/contract to exchange back at a position that the Sox can use (3B/SS probably). I haven't looked either, just going off the top of my head. Will look into it at some point but I just don't think LaRoche is going anywhere.

I clicked the link, a window opens but the page never shows up. Anyone care to summarize? Anyway. The idea of trading LaRoche is a novel one, I mean, like that hadn't been thought of already. As others have said, who the hell would want LaRoche? Nobody. Just accept that at this point LaRoche is not tradable and will be on the 25 man roster come opening day. Maybe LaRoche gets some at bats and hits well enough to be traded July/August but otherwise I've accepted he will be with the Sox next year and only LaRoche can change that. Just to show how much negative value LaRoche has, the Pirates are speculated to non tender Alvarez. A guy that actually hit 27 HR's with an OPS near .800 and expected to earn just over 8M. LaRoche is going to make 13M coming off a season in which he hit 12 HR's and a .634 OPS. What team would be dumb enough to trade for LaRoche and why?

QUOTE (pettie4sox @ Nov 30, 2015 -> 08:12 AM) You did mean Escobar, right? Ya, my bad. QUOTE (LDF @ Nov 30, 2015 -> 08:39 AM) that is baseball plain and simple. it is part of the game. now how he acts in the clubhouse, i will chalk this up to say, lets see if he has a history and is it bad enuf not to take that chance. different clubhouse, different environment. however remember, as i said if he is not a clubhouse cancer from the beginning.like a certain dodger player. I don't think Lawrie's past is any worse than anything we've seen from SOX players of the past. I think some of his bs can be from immaturity. He was pretty young when he first came into the league.

QUOTE (KyYlE23 @ Nov 30, 2015 -> 07:23 AM) What does this even mean? Its not like the sox are a disruptive bad clubhouse I think it's a reference to the Sox/Royals incident last season. Aside from the A's/Royals stuff last season, I think the previous Lawrie nonsense could be chalked up to immaturity. Not that he won't act out again, but he could mature and imo has. We've seen Sox players do stupid s*** too in the past. One thing to point out about the A's/ Royals incident is that the Royals were pissed about Lawrie's take out slide. Lawrie's slid low through the bag to take out Cain but again, Lawrie slid low to take out the feet and not the knees. Lawrie even showed concern for Cain after the play.

QUOTE (LDF @ Nov 30, 2015 -> 06:17 AM) again you are 100 % correct.... maybe it is b/c you are agreeing with me. but in all honesty, i was thinking that the sox will sign 1 player, and that will be Lawrie and for 3b. Sanchez has won that position from last yr play. MJ would be a great filler in a bigger trade that needed a player pkg to pull it off. but dang it, i would love to have gordon on the south side and playing ss. My current Xmas wish list is to trade for Lawrie, Gordon and CarGo. Let Sanchez have 2B with Saladino as the utility man that can play solid defense at 3B, SS and 2B. While I'm wishing here, would like to see Avi, Micah and Melky (ya, right) traded so that Thompson can get his glove onto the field. Nothing wrong with wishing this time of year is there?

QUOTE (LDF @ Nov 30, 2015 -> 06:02 AM) no choice for maybe 1 of them. maybe MJ being traded. Trading Micah would be the likely scenario, imo. Sanchez is perfect for the utility roll being a switch hitter with great defense. I'd still like to see if Sanchez's bat can come around but beggers can't be chosers so if Lawrie had to move to 2B then so be it.

QUOTE (SouthSideSale @ Nov 30, 2015 -> 12:09 AM) Eh I like Frazier but at what cost? They want the house and I'm not giving it up for him. Would rather get Lawrie and save the prospects. We probably could get Lawrie and Cargo for less than Frazier. Agreed. The biggest prospect the Sox might have to give up would be Montas at most and that would be for CarGo. I'd rather keep Montas but if it means upgrading two positions then I'm absolutely fine with that. At least the Sox would still have Fulmer, Anderson, Adams, May, Engel, Guerrero etc. Oh, and still have three picks in the first two rounds next June.

QUOTE (ChiSoxFanMike @ Nov 29, 2015 -> 08:02 PM) Is Lawrie known as being a decent defender? If he could hit .250 with 20 homers and play decent defense, I'd be all for acquiring him. He'd be a major upgrade over Gillaspie/Saladino/Olt. Before '15 he was average or better on defense. His K rate jumped last season as well. I'm thinking last season was an outlier when compared to previous years. Not sure what happened in Oakland to be honest but given the extremely thin market for 3B, I'd take the risk since he's just going on the age of 26 in a few months. I see him the same way as far as who the Sox had playing 3B. Lawrie is an upgrade over Gillaspie/Saladino/Olt. We would all prefer someone better at 3B but there's just not much available.

QUOTE (LDF @ Nov 29, 2015 -> 06:23 PM) 1st bold, i am in total agreement. 2nd bold, i was with you until you mention cargo. agh. end/ As I said earlier. Depending on the price, I would rather trade for two years of CarGo than sign Upton for 5-6 years and lose a pick in the '16 draft.

QUOTE (ChiSoxFanMike @ Nov 29, 2015 -> 05:33 PM) What kind of SS would you want the Sox to get if they did indeed acquire Lawrie? Would you prefer the Sox to get a guy on a long term deal (like Ian Desmond), or a 1 year stopgap (Asdrubal Cabrera, maybe even Alexei)? You had to ask. I laugh at myself because I've been flip flopping back and forth on this today so the timing of your question cracks me up. I do know I want no part of Desmond. I like the idea of Asdrubal at SS until Anderson is ready and then slide Asdrubal to 2B. My hangup is that defensively speaking, I really like what Saladino and Sanchez both have to offer and would like to see if they have more to offer with their bats. One minute I like the idea of Asdrubal ( was all on board just a few days ago) and the next minute I'm thinking the Sox should spend the money elsewhere and roll with either Saladino full time at SS or Sanchez full time at 2B. I really want to give Sanchez another year at 2B and see if he can progress more with the bat, I absolutely love his defense and that he's a switch hitter. Plus, I love screaming the word "Dirty!" when he hits the occasional HR. If it were up to me I would try and pry Dee Gordon away from the Marlins. He isn't rumored to be available but I would see if the Marlins were willing to part with him and at what cost. One idea could be to trade for Lawrie, play Saladino at SS, Sanchez at 2B and make a play for an outfield bat via trade. Someone like CarGo might be affordable to the SOX and they could use his power from the left side behind Abreu.

If Cinci's price is indeed through the roof, and I believe it is, then I hope the Sox pull something off for Lawrie. The Sox farm is not in good enough shape yet to pull off a trade for a player that had the second half Frazier had. Forget Frazier, trade for Lawrie and then find a SS.

Speaking of Hanley. "There’s “talk in the front office” that new Red Sox baseball chief Dave Dombrowski is trying to move Hanley Ramirez, according to Nick Cafardo of The Boston Globe. Cafardo adds that the Mariners, Orioles, and Angels “seem to be the targets” of DD’s campaign to relocate the pricey veteran after he turned in a massively disappointing season in 2015. It’s not immediately clear if those three clubs have interest, however." "Of course, trading Ramirez is probably easier said than done. Just last week, five general managers told Cafardo that they wouldn’t take on Ramirez even if the Red Sox picked up the tab on half of his remaining salary. Ramirez is owed $66MM through 2018 and he has a $22MM vesting option for 2019, so even at a reduced rate, that’s still a hefty price for a player coming off such a rough season on and off the field." More here. http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2015/11/red-...ey-ramirez.html Ouch. The Red Sox are all kinds of backwards on that contract and only after the first year.

QUOTE (soxfan2014 @ Nov 29, 2015 -> 06:28 AM) I really wouldn't mind if he signed with the Indians. Upton seems like the kind of guy who will never live up to a big contract due to his injury history, k-rate and defense. With our luck, he'll be Adam Dunn 3.0. Out of the big 3 outfield targets, he's the one I want the least. That's kind of the feeling I'm getting too. I'm just not sold on Upton. I'd rather see the money spent on 3B and SS first and then look to upgrading the outfield, preferably through a trade. I really don't want much to do with the big free agent outfielders. QUOTE (LDF @ Nov 29, 2015 -> 07:35 AM) you make an interesting counter. trust me on this. now, if needed the sox will pony up when needed. Albert Belle when he was a fa and Jose A. comes to mind. now, they, the sox fo, determine or comes to mind, on competing with the northside on the media and slowly with the fans. now, the sox have 2 dead contracts on their hands, hopefully they will rebound, in danks and laroche. those contracts will come off the books at the end of next yr. now for at least 2 positions, i really can see 2 trades will happen. the salary of the sox right now will be around 90 +/- mil add arb money 100 add 2 new players 110 mil and now add if the sox are lucky in the upton bidding, 20 mil... 130. it is still doable with what the sox have spent or spent close to. now the hitting and or hitting career stats, that is another subject. mccutchen and marte, from pitt and would cost a way less than 1 of upton and the sox can help themselves. I agree the Sox can come up with the money for the right player. I just don't think Upton is the right player. I can't believe I'm going to say this but I would rather trade for two years of CarGo than sign Upton for the next 5-6 years and I'm not even a fan of the idea of acquiring CarGo.

As a Sox fan, I feel this would be a wise move for Detroit. Go right ahead and tie up 100M+ in another contract that could become another albatross like Verlander's in a few years. Assuming Zimmermann gets the speculated 6 years. I think Zimmermann could hold his value for another 3 or 4 years but not 6. Go for it Tigers!

QUOTE (Y2JImmy0 @ Nov 29, 2015 -> 12:51 AM) They don't have $100 million. They meaning the Sox or Tribe? The Tribe can afford 20M annually with less holes to fill than the Sox which is why I think the Tribe signs Upton. QUOTE (LDF @ Nov 29, 2015 -> 03:20 AM) if you look at this way, it will be a great PR move. great to gets those viewership to look at the team, a marquee player for that elusive 3 yr plan. enuf time for Danks and LaRoche contract to come of the books, at least have a player who can somewhat compete with the northside talent. if you really look beyond my snarky comments, i am some what right. if and i mean if they are aggressive on the trade front and fix the holes. they will need that marquee name, face, personality to help the main core. plus then need some kind of shot in the arm to erase last yr abysmal season. from a side note, any fa signings will go against 2015 profit and lost to off set the gains and helping on next yr profit. it is all paper maneuvering for corp business. I'm having a difficult time determining the level of the Sox interest in Upton. The Sox have approximately 20M available to spend so would it be wise to spend it all on one outfielder with holes at 3B and SS yet to be filled? Upton could very well get a 5-6 year contract at 20M per year. The Sox don't strike me as a team to invest 100-120M in one player. I'm kind of leery of Upton's BA and high stike outs along with him costing the Sox a pick in the '16 draft. I kinda like that the Sox have 3 picks in the first two rounds next year. I could be wrong but I'm not so sure Upton is the right move or that the Sox would actually make that kind of commitment.

QUOTE (oldsox @ Nov 28, 2015 -> 03:42 PM) Article on Justin Upton on ESPN.com today. 5 teams in the running starting with White Sox. Closing comment was something like Sox never punt, so they will do something. Words to that effect. Here it is. "The White Sox's offense was a disaster in 2015. Despite playing in a good home run park, they ranked last in the American League in runs and last in home runs. Their corner outfielders ranked 23rd in the majors in wOBA, and while they'll hope for a better season from Melky Cabrera, Upton would be a major upgrade over Avisail Garcia in right field. There should be room in the budget, especially when factoring in that John Danks ($15.75 million) and Adam LaRoche ($13 million) come off the payroll after 2016. The White Sox, however, also have holes in the infield that need addressing. The White Sox never punt on a season like other clubs, so we can count on them doing something." http://espn.go.com/blog/sweetspot/post/_/i...-end-up-signing I'm guessing Cleveland signs Upton.