BlackSox13

QUOTE (ChiSoxFanMike @ Nov 28, 2015 -> 10:48 AM) I was thinking the exact same thing. If they blew $36 million on Happ, why didn't they try to save the money and then go after Price? Yes, I realize that $36 and $200+ million are very different contracts, but the Jays already have enough #4-#5 starter types. They need an ace. They really do need an ace and they could have gone after Jordan Zimmermann who should be cheaper than Price. Then again, I don't know much about the Jays finances either. I'm quite surprised they didn't go after Samardzija. Maybe Samardzija's asking price is too much? There's nothing impressive about that rotation when looking beyond Estrada and Stroman. The Jays offense will need to continue mashing to win games.

QUOTE (greg775 @ Nov 28, 2015 -> 12:55 AM) We better hope beyond hope Flowers can hit cause Avila is hopelessly bad at the plate. He draws a few walks. Big deal. He cannot hit. Arguably even worse than Tyler. So who do you suggest the Sox should have picked up that's actually available? It's not like the league is full of catchers that can hit and play defense.

QUOTE (TheFutureIsNear @ Nov 27, 2015 -> 10:54 PM) Astrubal is a downgrade defensively at short and his bat doesn't carry at 3B. So basically we'd be paying 20+ million for a 2b that isn't a plus bat or glove. I'll pass. Asdrubal's bat is an upgrade over Alexei, Saladino and Sanchez since Asdrubal had a 744 ops in '15 which is 100+ higher than those three. The defense as I said is debatable because Alexei is regressing and will continue to do so. Asdrubal's glove and bat play up much better at 2B which is a position in need of an upgrade and would move Sanchez into the utility roll where he's likely to end up anyway. If the Sox had to, they could play Saladino at SS which is his natural position. That's if the Sox cannot find an upgrade at SS which they should still have the resources to do even after signing Asdrubal and trading for Lawrie. A 3-4 year deal for Asdrubal wouldn't be a thing, imo.

The Jays now have their very own John Danks, for less money.

QUOTE (greg775 @ Nov 27, 2015 -> 09:54 PM) Just another body. But that's OK as he replaces Soto and Sox are banking on Flowers really emerging this season. 34 hits last year in 178 at bats. Boy, that is bad. The Sox have been banking on the emergence of Flowers since the Sox parted ways with AJ and handed the full time catching duties to Flowers. Flowers wouldn't need a platoon partner if he could hit.

QUOTE (ChiSoxFanMike @ Nov 27, 2015 -> 10:18 PM) Is Assdribble really that much better than Alexei? Which is better is debatable. The difference for me is Asdrubal is four years younger and a switch hitter.

QUOTE (SoxPride18 @ Nov 27, 2015 -> 08:18 PM) Acquiring Lawrie and signing Asdrubal Cabrera would be solid additions. Could play Cabrera at 2B or SS and have Saladino and Sanchez platoon I'm thinking the same thing as you. I'd be pretty happy if the Sox landed both Lawrie and Asdrubal.

QUOTE (soxfan2014 @ Nov 27, 2015 -> 06:14 PM) What would be the plan after that deal then? Thompson in right? Acquire another outfielder making LaRoche and Thompson platoon partners (Thompson in left, Melky DH against lefties)? Thompson goes to RF and immediately upgrades the RF defense. One thing to keep in mind is that if the Sox are going to upgrade the OF defense then one of Avi/LaRoche or Melky needs to be traded or benched in order to make room. Of those three, Avi would be the easiest to trade despite his value being pretty low.

QUOTE (LDF @ Nov 27, 2015 -> 04:44 PM) this is on a realm of a different logic, but lets look at EJ after last yr performance. the sox would be extremely lucky to find some one to take him. well, a yr in the minors to rebuild his value or platooning with another player in the majors may do just that. just my opinion. Very true but will the Sox be willing to wait another year? A player like Lawrie coming off of a down year is the type of trade Avi would fit into so if Oakland showed interest then roll with it. Both teams would be banking on each players potential upside.

The Puig clown show continues. f*** Puig and his entourage of bulls***. Glad the Dodgers are his baby sitter.

QUOTE (soxfan2014 @ Nov 27, 2015 -> 02:17 PM) I don't think it'd take much but more than just Avi. Avi's value is pretty low but I can see a team like Oakland having some interest in him given his age and under team control for four more years. With the Sox pitching up and coming I think Beck is very expendable so maybe pairing Avi with Beck in a trade for Lawrie could work.

QUOTE (SCCWS @ Nov 27, 2015 -> 02:02 PM) Major flaw in the article regarding diminished power. The Rays traded away Myers and Zobrist so now Longoria gets pitched around. Hell, Abreu 's power numbers dropped with LaRoche instead of Dunn protecting him. Maybe putting Longoria and Abreu 3/34 would help both of them. But the contract does bother me. maybe that could be re-worked for a change of scenery. Trading away Myers and Zobrist do not explain the lower exit velocity of the ball off of Longoria's that results in fly balls not traveling as far as they used to. Those trades also do not explain how Longoria is not able to get to inside pitches as well as he used to. Given his age, he appears to be on the decline while his contract escalates. Just a guess but I'd say playing 81 games a year at 3B on astro turf at Tropican Field has begun taking a toll on his body. Too much risk involved with Longoria.

QUOTE (LDF @ Nov 27, 2015 -> 09:00 AM) name='BlackSox13' date='Nov 27, 2015 -> 11:58 AM' Just my opinion but I don't think Frazier has been much of an option given that he will cost quality prospects and the Sox need to keep what quality they have. It's going to take better talent than the likes of Beck, Danish, Micah etc. yeah i totally agree, but i will not give up A+ prospects but some level 2 tier pitching prospect with an future of'er. he will be a great pickup and if they can, sign him to a longer term contract. but that was me thinking. Sorry but Nava is useless to the Sox to be honest. He's not even got garbage. Has no power, can't hit, going on 33 and the Sox already have plenty of outfielders and should-be 1B/DH types. and that is what i am looking at .... a platoon hitting dh / 1b and of'er. 2nd to shuck. plus he does have a nice pop to his hitting if use popularly. Gattis would be nice but we have no room for him as long as LaRoche is in the lineup. Now if the Sox could trade LaRoche or use him as a bench bat that might work but even then, Gattis hits right handed pitching better than left so the Sox couldn't use the two of them as platoon partners. yeah but if they traded with hou, he contract will be nice. going into his 1st arb yr ... second, platoon him with laroche and or nava. he can be a long term player for the dh / 1b / 3b / and if necessary cat. btw, the other part is whether laroche can rebound. Griffin. I didn't know this before but dude is rehabing from a third ucl tear and he's only 27. Yikes. I suggested last week the Sox take a look but Dick Allen made some good points and I've changed my mind since, especially after reading about 3 ucl tears. yeah i can agree. i wasn't too sure about the 2 tjs i only thought he had 1. but what is the cost.... an invite to spring training. so what is the upside, a sp wh has had success in the bigs last yr. but man .... those home runs. Nava: I would honestly rather have Avi as a platoon partner instead of Nava. Nava is just not good. Gattis: would really like to have him as a DH or even trying to turn him into a 1B but there's no way he should be playing the outfield. He's worse than Melky, lol. Again, with LaRoche being pretty un-tradable, he will be facing RHP in '16 which leaves no room for Gattis. Frazier: imo, the fact that he'll be 30 in February combined with his second half collapse could be a sign of a decline in the works. I still think some team will end giving up some pretty good talent for him, I just hope that team isn't the White Sox. At least with the 25 year old Lawrie there's still potential for upside so I'll continue to hope the SOX can work something out with Oakland. Just my preference is all.

QUOTE (SCCWS @ Nov 27, 2015 -> 08:25 AM) I would explore Longoria + for Q +. Sox need a big bat before or after Abreu, preferably LH, but I would consider this if I was Hahn. That big bat comes with a contract that escalates as he ages. It's been written about how he isn't hitting the ball as far as he used to and how the decline in exit velocity of the ball off his bat correlates with that. For those interested in his contract. http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/...shtml#contracts Interesting articles from this year outlining his decrease in power. http://grantland.com/the-triangle/mlb-evan...-power-decline/ http://www.cbssports.com/mlb/eye-on-baseba...ng-rays-offense http://isportsweb.com/2015/08/13/tampa-bay...-evan-longoria/ No chance I give up Q in any trade for Longoria. The Rays can keep him and his escalating contract while he continues his decline. That contract has disaster written all over it.

QUOTE (LDF @ Nov 27, 2015 -> 12:48 AM) and that is the crux of the whole discussion. what is the cost, if it is too much skip him and go for the next plausible choice. i am just wondering on the 2nd wave of non tendered. am i correct of that??? another time when another group of players have a non tendered/fa coming up?? but the problem i am having now is, the sox better make some major moves now, before some of the great deals mention here on this board is gone. speaking of which , Evan Gattis, Daniel Nava, for a spare of/dh would be a great pickup and sp A.J. Griffin can help until 2017 when the other prospects will be able to step in. my problem with Griiffin is, he has a habit of giving up home runs .... but still he is still an interesting pitcher. Just my opinion but I don't think Frazier has been much of an option given that he will cost quality prospects and the Sox need to keep what quality they have. It's going to take better talent than the likes of Beck, Danish, Micah etc. Sorry but Nava is useless to the Sox to be honest. He's not even got garbage. Has no power, can't hit, going on 33 and the Sox already have plenty of outfielders and should-be 1B/DH types. Gattis would be nice but we have no room for him as long as LaRoche is in the lineup. Now if the Sox could trade LaRoche or use him as a bench bat that might work but even then, Gattis hits right handed pitching better than left so the Sox couldn't use the two of them as platoon partners. Griffin. I didn't know this before but dude is rehabing from a third ucl tear and he's only 27. Yikes. I suggested last week the Sox take a look but Dick Allen made some good points and I've changed my mind since, especially after reading about 3 ucl tears.

QUOTE (LDF @ Nov 26, 2015 -> 10:47 PM) fitting in at what the sox needs and at a price that they can live with. to me that is Lawrie and Valencia. even valencia for 2 yrs is a good options until something can be looked into for further help. even a possible long term deal is or would be ok. Lawrie and Valencia are nice. too bad the sox can't get both. now, i still like to put in a call to Cincy to see what Frazier would call. I know Frazier had a bad second half in '16 but his over all numbers are still pretty impressive. I think the cost would be pretty high and would put quite a dent in the Sox farm. Imo, I steer clear of Frazier for that reason. Imo, Lawrie makes the most sense. Should be interesting to see if he's traded and where he goes.

QUOTE (CaliSoxFanViaSWside @ Nov 26, 2015 -> 08:57 PM) Also should be pointed out it looks like ESPN used the Baseball reference WAR which had Lawrie at a 1.9 WAR but there is a BIG discrepancy between the Fangraphs WAR (0.6) and Baseball Reference. Since I'm still getting used to looking at these kind of stats I know I must be missing something because even comparing his previous years WAR on both sights there are far different numbers. Anyone want to help me out here ? If I remember right, Balta explained to me the difference was that the WAR BR shows is the actual WAR based on performance whereas the Fangraphs WAR takes other things into consideration so their WAR is what should have been and not what it actually was Example, a pitchers WAR might be higher on fangraphs due to fangraphs taking into account the bad defense played behind him but BR's WAR are the actual results without the other factors coming into play. To me the difference is similar to Runs and Earned Runs stats.

QUOTE (LDF @ Nov 26, 2015 -> 06:37 PM) thanks for the link. of the top 10, the only one i can see being available is t frazier - cincy, and only b/c they may want to trade him for prospects. they already admitted to be blowing up the team. i really like frazier, lawrie and d valencia who i may like the most. for me, any 3 will be a better option than freese Agreed. The only players that look like they could be realistically available, imo, are Frazier/Lawrie/Prado/Longoria/Plouffe/Sandoval. None of those 3B are worth Q so the idea of trading Q for a 3B becomes pointless. Minny wants to try Sano in LF to likely try and hold on to Plouffe, so it seems. Cinci wants prospects but at what cost to the Sox? If Frazier doesn't cost the Sox any top prospects then I'd be fine with that but I'm thinking Cinci can do better than what he Sox would be willing to offer. I wouldn't touch the contracts of Longoria or Sandoval. That pretty much leaves us with Prado, Lawrie and Valencia. I'm fine with any of those three but there's a few other points worth noting Prado is 32 and earns 11M in '16 with 3M being paid by the Yanks and is a FA after '16. Valencia comes with two years of control but is already 31. Lawrie is going to be 26 in January, comes with two years of control and due to his youth/lack of boras for an agent presents the Sox with a core type player and potential log term solution to a position that has been dormant since Creedy. The more I think about it, the more sense trading for Lawrie makes. He won't cost top prospects and the A's just might be interested in a player like Micah to play 2B. f*** t, I'm all for Lawrie. QUOTE (CaliSoxFanViaSWside @ Nov 26, 2015 -> 08:25 PM) People seem to be in a big hurry to deal Q but I'm sure the Sox want to avoid that if they can. They also need to realize that there just aren't enough good 3rd basemen to go around without a big contract attached . If Lawrie can rebound to a 1.5 WAR which is entirely possible as projected by Steamer , getting him ends up being a decent move if the Sox can avoid giving up more talent than he's worth . For those who think Lawrie sucks there will probably be at least 3 or 4 teams who want him which just proves the lack of quality depth at the position league wide. Agreed with all of this. At 26, its very much possible Lawrie can turn it around and imo, become a potential long term solution at 3B. His age fits the "core" mold the Sox are looking for at a position the Sox desperately need help at. Like the Sox, I'm in no hurry to trade Q and it sure seems to me like there aren't any available 3B worth trading Q for anyway. The pickings are slim for 3B and beggers can't be choosers.

Here's a list of the top 20 at 3B. http://espn.go.com/mlb/stats/batting/_/position/3b/sort/OPS How many of these 3B are really available for trade and how many of them are worthy of Q? I'm liking the idea of Lawrie more and more.

Looking at what third baseman are realistically available, Lawrie is not a bad idea as long as the cost is reasonable. I like the idea of Micah for Lawrie, not sure Oakland would but I think Oakland has a spot open at 2B? Could be a match for a trade. It might take Micah plus a low level pitching prospect which I would not object to. Someone mentioned Wheeler so maybe pair him up with Micah for Lawrie? This really is a horrible year to be in the market for a 3B.

Lost in all this is that the Dodgers 1) have made clear they are keeping Urias, Seager and others 2) they have plenty of money for a FA pitcher and are rumored to be after Price 3) the SOX need Dodgers players more than the Dodgers need Q.

QUOTE (Y2JImmy0 @ Nov 25, 2015 -> 04:59 PM) I'm sure he will be throwing a cutter soon enough. Funny you mention the cutter. Check this out ... https://mobile.twitter.com/ThePitcherList/s...9790337/video/1 Ozuna swings and misses at the 97mph cutter.

QUOTE (LDF @ Nov 25, 2015 -> 03:35 PM) yeah, i just read on mlb trade rumors of 2 players that were dfa .... of/1b d. nava and rp/sp b gomes, ugh i think he can sp ... but i wouldn't mind a 1 yr with options. Gomes is a reliever.

QUOTE (LDF @ Nov 25, 2015 -> 03:21 PM) and i do understand this, i just really, really being snarky. many posters should know how much i am against anything of puig on the sox. Gotcha, were on the same page. I'm hoping the Sox are more focused on 3B and SS. Not that an upgrade in RF wouldn't be nice...

QUOTE (LDF @ Nov 25, 2015 -> 03:15 PM) thanks for posting this, i missed something, so i will revise my other other post, now they need to go out and sign a 3b.... that is all i see them doing, nothing big. Off the top of my head I think Hwang and Freese make the most sense for a 3B signing. I'd prefer something else but I don't know what else is available for 3BB.