BlackSox13

QUOTE (CaliSoxFanViaSWside @ Nov 23, 2015 -> 07:58 PM) Just trade Melky and Avi for Puig straight up. Sounds lopsided in the Sox favor of course but they're trying to win a World Series next year I assume and do they really want Puig screwing with team chemistry ? Sox need talent and Dodgers need to be rid of Puig . They get Melky's steadiness and Avi's potential while we get a talented screw up. Don't see that happening since the Dodgers have too many outfielders as is. If the Dodgers trade Puig they will likely be looking for pitching which brings us back to Q. Imo, if the Sox are going to trade Q, they can do better than Puig. I'd pass.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Nov 22, 2015 -> 01:11 PM) If you're not going to get a long-term piece back for Robertson, there's no reason to move him. Moving him for a guy who can fill a hole right now makes no sense as it opens up another hole. May as well hold him and see if someone gets more desperate if you can't get something at the minor league or pre-arb level for him. In this particular case, Lowrie would fill the void at 3B and be an upgrade at that position for the Sox. Freeing up Robertson's salary allows the Sox to have more money to fill other positional needs. Houston is leaving a few interesting players unprotected for the rule five draft so they could be a part of the return as well. I'm just saying that I don't see Houston giving up a prospect such as Moran for a costly closer like Robertson. Other pieces besides Lowrie are certainly possible. Imo, I would rather explore a move like this than trading a SP. Sure, trading a SP like Q would net a bigger return but it would open up an even bigger hole and a pitcher of Q's caliper is not so easily replaced. I'm just trying to think of alternative ideas to trading a SP which thankfully the Sox seem reluctant to do.

QUOTE (GreenSox @ Nov 22, 2015 -> 10:51 AM) Lowrie and Valbuena (another low OBP player) are filler players. They'll nudge the Sox to 78 wins, although the loss of Robertson would nudge us back down. Rather get a good prospect, preferably one that's close to majors. I would rather get a close to MLB ready prospect too but we can't expect much given the amount of money Robertson makes and that there are some cheaper closer options available. I'm not getting my hopes up, that's for sure.

QUOTE (BamaDoc @ Nov 22, 2015 -> 10:51 AM) Could you get Moran and Fisher and a lower pitching prospect? I kinda doubt getting Moran. With Robertson's salary, its likely Houston would want to trade some salary to the Sox in return like Jed Lowrie. Lowrie plays 3B, the Sox need a 3B and the Astros could then bring Moran up to play 3B. Valbuena could be another 3B the Astros try to move in a deal for Robertson. If I was the Astros, I wouldn't give up Moran in a deal for Robertson.

Good grief. No, just NO! The idea is to get better, not worse.

QUOTE (soxfan2014 @ Nov 22, 2015 -> 08:52 AM) What level do you guys think he will start at? I hope he carries it over and he can be up in our outfield sooner rather than later. When he is up, we can say that we have an Engel in the outfield. There's a CF opening in Birmingham with May moving up to Charlotte and after Engel's AFL performance I can see the Sox challenging him by moving him up to Birmingham. IIRC, NorthsideSox posted a writeup stating Engel likely starts '16 in Birmingham. Makes sense.

QUOTE (coco1997 @ Nov 21, 2015 -> 12:27 PM) Are you thinking of Brett Lawrie or Jed Lowrie? Lawrie is with Oakland. QUOTE (soxfan2014 @ Nov 21, 2015 -> 12:31 PM) I think he means Lowrie but is typing Lawrie. He has his contract details right anyway haha Oops. Yep, meant Lowrie lol. For some reason I always confuse the spelling of those two players. DOH!

QUOTE (soxfan2014 @ Nov 21, 2015 -> 11:33 AM) I'd take that deal. I also came across an article about which players the Astros are likely to lose during Rule V draft. Maybe we could grab another one or two to go along with Lowrie (offsets a little cash/can plug in at third or short) in a deal (along with someone protected like Musgrove). http://climbingtalshill.com/2015/11/21/hou...n-rule-v-draft/ Great find! Doubt he will be there when the Sox pick but I'd be all over Applin with his high OBP, base stealing and LHB. I think Lawrie is the 3B Houston would likely want to trade for Robertson due to his salary and contract. He would still be a cheaper option for the Sox at 3B than Freese. Lawrie's contract is unusual in that it's a deflating contract which is rare. I'd take him. Heck, I'd offer Robertson + reliever or EJ for Lawrie/ Musgrove/Applin. Doesn't sound too far off.

QUOTE (soxfan2014 @ Nov 21, 2015 -> 11:09 AM) Astros "strongly" interested in acquiring a closer. http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2015/11/astr...ing-closer.html Seriously, if they make a legit offer for Robertson, it'd be hard to refuse. Freeing up the money and acquiring young players would be nice. Edit: also, didn't he turn down more money from them to come to us? Or am I remembering incorrectly. The point of me mentioning that is they wouldn't mind taking on what he has remaining if they had offered even more in the first place. Just guessing but I think the Astros would want to relieve some salary in return for taking on Robertson's contract. I suspect either Lawrie or Valbuena would be part of the return for Robertson, which I would be fine with. I'm probably off way base here but I'd shoot for Lawrie or Valbuena + Musgrove.

QUOTE (CaliSoxFanViaSWside @ Nov 20, 2015 -> 11:12 PM) Not sure what you mean. The Puig of his 1st 2 season was a very good player. His OBP those 2 years was in the .380-.390 range. Power, speed a great arm but wild on the bases, a bit of an untamed stallion. . Basically he has problems with his weight, tardiness, injuries and Mattingly said something about a miraculous recovery from a hamstring injury inplying he was babying it then all of a sudden he's available to play. So now there's the comments from Scott Van Syke's father that Kershaw supposedly said the Dodgers should get rid of him. So he's a major league prima donna or at best immature but talented as hell. Certainly the Dodger's would be selling low on him if they were inclined to trade him. Now his value is low and sinking fast if what Andy Van Slyke said is to be believed. He has all the talent in the world but his attitude and work ethic is being called into serious question. I am certainly not advocating Q for him but the Sox need talent and acquiring Puig would be a boon to the Sox as far as national publicity would go. Can the Dodgers really afford to keep him if he is a huge problem in the clubhouse when they are also most likely be losing Greinke and will need pitching to stay in the hunt for October ? Good stuff here and thanks for the reply. The weight, tardiness and injuries make me want to run like hell in the opposite and never look back but I see what you and others mean by potential. Imo, no chance I trade Q for that potential and certainly Sale and Rodon would be out of the question for me as well. So what would be left that the Sox have that could be of interest to the Dodgers? I'm guessing the Dodgers are looking for a pitcher to replace Greinke but Puig is not worth any of the three pitchers I mentioned. Another problem I have is that the Sox and Dodgers both have too many outfielders so an exchange of outfielders doesn't sound too likely or make sense. I really don't see how a trade can be pulled off unless a third team in need of outfielders is brought into the equation some how. I think a better idea would be for the Sox to go after Ozuna. Sox and Marlins potentially match up better, imo.

QUOTE (soxfan2014 @ Nov 20, 2015 -> 07:56 PM) I just don't see why they would want Avi wth Yelich as the primary LF and Stanton as the primary RF unless they decide to sacrifice a little defense in center with Yelich's bat there. You mentioned Yelich so I had to look him up to be sure but he did start 19 games and played in a total of 36 games in CF so he could be an option, though not optimal. Can't help but think that as soon as the Sox mentioned Ozuna, the Marlins counter with Thompson instead of Avi. Would love to see a Sox outfield of Eaton in LF, Thompson in CF and Ozuna in RF. I actually like the idea of trading for Ozuna much much more than trading for Puig.

Can I ask what the hype over Puig is about? I'm honestly not seeing it or why some fans are seemingly eager to trade Q for him. What am I missing?

QUOTE (ChiSoxFanMike @ Nov 20, 2015 -> 06:28 PM) Isn't Rosario a terrible defensive catcher? Lol, yes he is! Read something about him being one of the worst pitch framers in baseball. Even still, I like his bat and as someone else said, he could serve as a DH platoon with LaRoche. If his power returns he could become the full time DH after LaRoche is gone.

Damn, I'd love to grab both Rosario and Brothers!

QUOTE (fredmanrique @ Nov 20, 2015 -> 05:50 PM) I would consider trading the farm for Fernandez, Ozuna and Gordon. The Marlins of all teams may consider it. I dont know who plays short or third after you use Anderson, Fulmer, Adams, M Johnson, Avi, etc. But imagine that rotation along with major upgrades at 2b and rf. Trayce in center, melky to dh. You are going for it with that move and youd have to buy a 3b in FA. Dont love it but desmond? 1. Gordon 2b 2. Eaton lf 3. Abreu 1b 4. Melky dh 5. Ozuna rf 6. Desmond 3b 7. Trayce cf 8. Flowers c 9. Saladino ss More importantly, Sale, Fernandez, Quintana, Rodon, Danks/ E Johnson I'd go with Freese over Desmond. Freese has always played 3B as far as I know and won't cost a comp pick either. Also, due to the additional cost in prospects, I'd nix the idea of Fernandez and shoot for Gordon. With so many positional holes to fill, I just cannot see trading prospects for a young pitcher like Fernandez whom will cost plenty. Another idea I threw out there in another thread was Melky to the cubs for Castro. Not sure how realistic that is but as I said, just throwing it out there. BTW, welcome to the board.

QUOTE (Special K @ Nov 20, 2015 -> 03:49 PM) If you're plan plays out, then I'm all for it. Feel like the market for Freese will be a little bit more given the scarcity of third basemen in the league. I just can't stomach an infield of Saladino, Sanchez and Johnson. Because to me, it's not like going through growing pains with a player because I do not believe any one of these guys will become an everyday started in the league (except for maybe Johnson). That is why I am advocating for an upgrade at any / all of the positions we mentioned (including outfield, if at all possible). You're probably right about Freese and I agree about not wanting to see all three of Sanchez, Saladino and Micah on the field at the same time. I'm not counting on it but I'd really like to see the Sox move Melky, Micah and Avi in trades to open up roster spots for Thompson and possibly sign Freese. I really am curious about See Gordon though, he'd be a great fit with the Sox and is in his prime. I wonder if the Cubs would consider a Melky for Castro swap of some sort. The Sox would save money annually whereas the cubs save just over 11M in total for future payroll obligations. Supposedly the cubs are thinking about moving Schwarber back to catcher which would open up LF. I'm really not a fan of Castro, just trying to think outside the box is all.

QUOTE (LDF @ Nov 20, 2015 -> 05:52 PM) oh man, i was already getting the troops org, setting up a plan to raid their firework display. now you want to stop.... Keep the townsfolk on emergency stand by until mid February and we'll go from there.

QUOTE (LDF @ Nov 20, 2015 -> 05:13 PM) sign me up!!!! Now now. Let's give Hahn a chance to work some magic. I don't expect all the holes to be filled but if he can somehow shore up 3B and SS, I'd be a pretty happy Sox fan. If not, Castle Reinsdorf here we come!

QUOTE (raBBit @ Nov 20, 2015 -> 04:54 PM) I never say never with the Marlins but I think they'd want a lot more for Gordon. I think you're right raBBit. Maybe this would be a trade that the Sox would throw Avi into? I know Avi doesn't equate to ALOT more but maybe ( admittedly a stretch) the Marlins consider it since they get a SP (EJ), a 2B (Micah) to replace Gordon and an OF (Avi) to replace Ozuna if they trade him. Hmmm, perhaps the Sox work something out for Gordon and Ozuna? Likely the Marlins would want Thompson over Avi in any package, I'm guessing. I found this to be somewhat interesting. "I’d be surprised if they keep him. Loria clearly can’t stand the guy and everybody knows it." http://mlb.nbcsports.com/2015/11/20/marlin...-stand-the-guy/

QUOTE (WhiteSoxLifer @ Nov 20, 2015 -> 04:40 PM) Marlins want a starter for ozuna Forgot about that. I read they are looking for a #2, lol, good luck Loria. I'd try to sway them on EJ + for either Ozuna or Gordon. The Johnson boys for Gordon might be intriguing.

QUOTE (TheFutureIsNear @ Nov 20, 2015 -> 02:46 PM) An Avi + Micah package makes a lot of sense to me for a rebuilding team looking for major league ready team. Not exactly sure who/what they'd fetch in return, but hopefully a starting OF. Could try to package those two for Ozuna or Gordon from the Marlins. Would probably take another player but it might be possible.

QUOTE (shakes @ Nov 20, 2015 -> 02:42 PM) I'm sorry, the past has a large bearing on Andersons development. These are the same decision makers and coaches that are trying to develop the skills he is missing. For the same reason I would feel comfortable if the Sox had a young power pitching lefty with unorthodox mechanics and command issues, that they could turn him into something, I feel just as strongly the current Sox structure is not equipped to develop the skills Anderson needs to reach his potential. It doesn't mean they can't do it, it just means it's unlikely. There is not a single example in the last ten years telling me differently, and Anderson is not the first talented prospect they have had and that we have heard positive development about. And go look at all of Anderson's scouting reports. They all mention his power potential. Despite trying to put words in my mouth, I will not measure his success based on his power. But if the power isn't there, than he needs to get on base and play defense well. Those are far from a given to the point where people are counting on him as a part of the future. Uh, Anderson is getting on base, he hit .312 with a .355OBP despite not drawing walks and stole 49 bases in '15. Anderson's power is currently graded at 45/80, I wouldn't call that too much power potential so I'm not sure what scouting reports you are looking at. I don't deny the Sox have been bad at player development, they absolutely have been. However, they were bad at drafting position players in recent years its not like the Sox ML coaches had much to work with. The Sox have made some changes in the scouting/drafting aspect of the franchise and there seems to be a slow trend going upward. In fact, NorthsideSox posted a writeup not long ago at the top of PHT. One more thing on Anderson and I'm done because I don't want to continue derailing this thread any further but if I remember right, Anderson didn't even start playing baseball until Junior year at college. That shows he has remarkable athleticism and has come a long way in a very short period of time.

The Sox don't have a plan!!! Lite the torches, its time to storm Castle Reinsdorf!!!

QUOTE (oldsox @ Nov 20, 2015 -> 02:09 PM) Why would the Marlins try to trade Gordon? The Marlins are reportedly listening to offers on Ozuna and Fernandez so why not Gordon who is set to make roughly 6M in his first year of arbitration? Outside of the Stanton extension, Loria is one seriously cheap bastard QUOTE (KyYlE23 @ Nov 20, 2015 -> 02:15 PM) Why would the Marlins do a lot of things +1

QUOTE (Special K @ Nov 20, 2015 -> 09:39 AM) You actually forgot OF as well. Look, if the Sox intend to fill those areas of need with quality players, then by all means take a pass on Walker... But i do think we need to be looking towards a win-now approach. We have a great core and this is the window in which we should be trying to do something. These are Sale and Abreu's best years... we can take a 5 year approach, but there's no guarantee those guys will be around when the Sox develop young players. That's why i think we need a win-now approach. I also have zero confidence in the Sox developing talented offensive players. I mean, we have to go back a decade to talk about the last time the sox developed a talented offensive hitter, which is why i'm interested in upgrading in every possible way. I can stomach Sanchez and Johnson at 2b IF we get improvement at other areas. But i'll tell you right now, from what I've seen of Sanchez and Johnson, they will end up being nothing more than utility players in the MLB... So if we march out Saladino at 3rd, Sanchez at short, Johnson at 2b next year, Flowers at catcher, it's going to be another year of just abysmal offense. I can guarantee you that. That's why, when I see a chance to upgrade, I am interested... I didn't forget about the outfield, just don't see it as important of a need as 3B, SS and C. As long as Melky,Avi and LaRoche are on the roster,theres not much the Sox can do in the outfield since neither Melky nor Avi can be used full time at DH with LaRoche on the team. I'd prefer at least one of the three moved in a trade, perferably LaRoche but that isnt going to happen and Melky would be a hard sell ( I cling to hope he still could be moved) which leaves Avi whom has such little value that he would be an add-on to an already proposed trade package. Back to Walker, the money and prospects that would be used for one year of a 30 year old 2B could be better used on positions that are in more need of upgrading, 3B and SS especially. Freese is expected to command a similar salary to Walker and could solidify 3B for the next two or three years which buys the Sox time to develop or trade for a young 3B and Freese would only cost the roughly 10M per year and no prospects or draft picks. That leaves the Sox with 10M to spare with saved prospects that were not used for Walker and the Sox could then try to swing a deal with the Marlins for Dee Gordon whom projects to earn about 6MM in '16 and is under team control through the '18 season. Maybe the Marlins would be interested in a package of Erik Johnson, Micah Johnson/ Avi? Gordon played SS before he was moved to 2B so he provides some flexibility although he's definitely better at 2B, which is fine. Saladino can play SS with Sanchez becoming the utility he's likely destined to become anyway and things suddenly start falling into place. Saladino buys the Sox another year of seeing how Anderson progresses at the SS position. A middle infield of Gordon, Saladino, Sanchez provides the Sox with a large amount of flexibility defensively and some offensively in the lineup card. All three are capable of playing SS orr 2B with Saladino serving as Freese's backup at 3B.