BlackSox13

QUOTE (OmarComing25 @ Oct 4, 2015 -> 05:44 PM) Garcia almost feels like he has negative value at this point, and including him in the deal makes things worse. Think the Rockies still say no though. Let's not forget the Rockies already have better outfielders than Avi, Micah can't stay healthy and the Rockies already have a better 2B in LaMahieu, Beck only pitched 54 innings this year due to elbow inflammation, Montas needs more time to see if he can stick as a starter so the only thing enticing in that package from the Rockies POV is an under-sized starting pitcher by the name of Fulmer. I don't think the Rockies just say no, they say f*** no and laugh off into the sunset.

QUOTE (Jose Abreu @ Oct 4, 2015 -> 12:17 PM) Yay, a Sun-Times link! Yep, I share your enthusiasm. I don't click links from the times anymore. I think we all know the state of the Sox anyway.

I wonder if Buehrle would consider coming back to the Sox as a reliever for one season? Likely wishful thinking on my part since Buehrle has had a few cortisone shots in his shoulder this year but I still cling to some hope.

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Oct 4, 2015 -> 09:46 AM) At least Q has better value here. Last year on this very board Q for Jay Bruce was considered a good idea, and now we b**** at Hahn for signing LaRoche. And the year before that it was Q for Jason Castro. Q, for whatever reason, is still undervalued on this board. I just don't get it. As for Frazier. Cannot say I like the idea of trading for yet another player heading into their last season before free agency. No thanks.

Hell of a career Buehrle has had and I will miss him. I really hope Toronto puts Buehrle in the pen since the Jays have a real shot a doing some post season damage. Maybe when Cooper retires, Buehrle can take over.

Parent is gone? There goes the '16 season. Fudge my Huggies, I thought next year was the year too. Damn! What on earth will the Sox do now to make the '16 playoffs? Sigh, we are f***ed...

QUOTE (Y2JImmy0 @ Oct 2, 2015 -> 07:47 AM) Meh. They need better players before I worry about the manager. Same here. I'm more concerned with the 3B, C, SS and RF positions. RV coming back is absolutely unsurprising.

Well this sucks. The Dodgers and SD play this weekend. The Dodgers are competing with the Mets for the 2nd seed while SD has nothing to play for except for maybe helping the Mets make the Dodgers the 3rd seed.

QUOTE (Y2JImmy0 @ Sep 28, 2015 -> 07:42 AM) The White Sox are not signing Jason Heyward. Why do people keep talking about this? He's going to get $160+ million. Is that really something that anyone thinks the Sox will or should do? Agreed and I have absolutely no interest in Heyward for the money he will get, even if the Sox had it to spend. Looking at the offense side, Eaton and Heyward are so close its not even funny and yet Eaton is much cheaper. Eaton will make a total of 21M from 2016-19 and Heyward will make at least that per year with his new contract. Imo, Heyward's defense is not worth the excessive money he will cost. Besides, spending money on Heyward does not help 3B, SS or C. Heyward is just a bad idea.

Two problems I see with trading Eaton. 1) he is one of few players that are actually hitting for a team that is starved for hitting and 2) who replaces Eaton at the top of the order? This is why so many, including myself, see Thompson replacing Avi in RF making the most sense for the time being.

QUOTE (Mike F. @ Sep 25, 2015 -> 05:57 PM) Yes. That's why I'm not a huge fan of sabermetric statistics. They're so subjective. Stats like wins, losses, walks, strikeouts, ERA, K/BB ratio, etc are concrete and will always be the same no matter that website you're on. Sabermetric stats aren't. I guess I'm more of a traditionalist myself, but I just can't get behind supporting sabermetric stats until there is a clear way to make and evaluate them without there being a gray area. Same here. The typical stats are what I've always known since I was a kid. When Sabermetric stats came out I was more like, whaaaaaat? I will read up on the newer stats so that I might learn more of what they are about. I'm sure they have a purpose and can be useful. I've just been too lazy to do so.

No complaints here and it makes sense. Hopefully Carlos can end on a high note by shutting out the Yanks through 6 or 7 scoreless innings. Carlos has come along way in a short period of time.

QUOTE (Mike F. @ Sep 25, 2015 -> 03:42 PM) Baseball-Reference WAR means nothing to me honestly. Guys like Yovani Gallardo, Jake Odorizzi, Cole Hamels, etc all have a better WAR than Sale even though their stats are definitely not as good. WAR as a stat really shouldn't hold as much credence just for the fact that it is so subjective. There is no right way to calculate it. So different sites have their own variables they take into account when factoring WAR? If so, that's even more confusing to me. QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Sep 25, 2015 -> 03:45 PM) Actually they both take into account defense but they do so in different ways. It's really a remarkable difference and I've been struggling to explain it since it was pointed out last month - the White Sox pitchers are vastly worse on Baseball Reference WAR than in Fangraphs WAR while the defense it's the opposite. This isn't just the defense, as other poor defensive teams don't show the same effect, it is something unique to the 2015 white sox. Somehow they're giving up a ton more hits and runs than you'd expect for a team giving up as few walks and getting as many strikeouts as they have. Baseball-Reference generally is more "what actually happens on the field" while fangraphs is thought of more as "what should have happened", so you could say that they're just getting unlucky, but that's unbelievable for an entire staff for an entire season to me - that seems like something far more systematic. They're giving up more hits than they should. Some of my guesses are "poor defensive positioning", or "Pitchers that are really bad at pitching to their defense and are really stubborn" but honestly I'm still waiting for a good explanation. I think your guesses about poor defensive positioning and pitchers not pitching to the defensive positioning could certainly factor in. I wonder if pitchers tipping pitches and/ or catchers tipping the pitches could somehow be a part of it. Maybe the Sox catchers signal calling have become predictable to hitters? I never thought too much about the reasons behind the collective digression. I watch Sale pitch and to me he looks every bit as good as previous years and yet his numbers, K's aside, do not show it. When I watch Q, to me he seems to be a better pitcher than last year and yet the numbers do not reflect it. As much of a non fan of Samardzija as I am, he has much better stuff than his numbers reflect and should not have regressed nearly as much as his numbers indicate. This really is perplexing. I'm starting to think that maybe teams have picked up on patterns between Sox catchers and pitchers.

QUOTE (OmarComing25 @ Sep 25, 2015 -> 03:31 PM) It all really depends on what you define as a #1 pitcher. Some people see it as only pitchers who could compete for the Cy Young year in and year out, which makes it a very small group. Others see it as the top 30 SP in the game. Q qualifies in the second group for sure, but not by the first. Yep, agreed with this. For me, Q is a #1 despite the lack of sexy stats. Q just knows how to get the job done.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Sep 25, 2015 -> 03:29 PM) Check both fangraphs war and baseball-reference war. Sale looks spectacular on Fangraphs. Whoa, what a difference! So does fangraphs take info account USCF and the poor defense while BR does not? Man, I really need to spend more time in the advanced stats thread.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Sep 25, 2015 -> 02:46 PM) Here's an article I caught last year trying to qualify "average WAR" as a function of "spot in the rotation". Basically if you stuck Quintana's numbers into there he's roughly a strong #2 starter who is unusually reliable and healthy so far in his career. Thanks for the link, good read. What I found very interesting about using WAR is that for this season, Q is technically the ace of the staff with his WAR at 3.8 and Sale at 3.0. That does not mean Q is better than Sale, just that Sale has been roughed up more this year than years past. Thing is, neither pitcher qualify as an " ace" since neither have put up a 6+ WAR this year. I stumbled across a writeup on fan graphs that defined ace or #1 as being a starter with three plus pitches. Sale certainly fits that build while Q has only two with his FB and CU. However, I think a case can be made for Q's Slider being a plus pitch on some days and I think that's when he begins to rack up some K's. Q certainly does not have Sale's stuff but like Buehrle, Q finds a way to get it done and I think there's something to be said about the end results. The topic of Q being a #1 or #2 is very debatable and its easy to see why., although i think some fans make a bigger deal of than it really is. I'll put it this way. As long as Sale is on the Sox, Q will be a #2 regardless where he pitches in the rotation but if for some reason Sale were gone I would have no problem with calling Q the #1. At least until Rodon fully develops.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Sep 25, 2015 -> 02:32 PM) Of course, whether "Mark Buehrle is an ace" is a debate that had something of a history at this website even before I started here. I can only imagine the debates that went on here,lol. I guess it comes down to an individual's perception of an ace. I never thought to Google this and will do so after I finish typing this post but is there an actual outline of what truely defines an "ace"? For the most part, what I see on the board is based on opinion/perception but nothing truely defined. Before someone has a chance to say it, Google is my friend and will go use it now

I just do not understand the lack of appreciation for Q by some fans. Q does not have the sexy strike numbers but he makes all his starts and continues to put up a low to mid 3 ERA every year while pitching in a very hitter friendly ball park. Imo, Q is not that different from Buehrle, whom was the #1 for the Sox for quite a few years. Q is not the prototypical #1 but the end results are what matters. As for the topic. I agree with those that say Rodon is a star in the making and Fulmer could be a star. In the end I think Rodon will be the better pitcher but also believe Fulmer will be very good in his own right. Maybe in a few years we can make a more fair comparison between the two after Fulmer has had a chance to show what he can do in the majors but for now, its clearly Rodon.

QUOTE (BrianAnderson @ Sep 24, 2015 -> 12:27 PM) What is a player supposed to say? Quotes to the media mean absolutely nothing to me? Is he supposed to say he wants to be on a winning team only? Then the media and fans would turn to him during times like this and say he doesn't want to be a good teammate. There's no winning saying anything other than what he has said. I could really care less what Sale wants. Not be armchair GM here, but I just think you trade from your excess to make up for your areas you are weak in. If it's Sale? Okay. If its Rodon, Okay. If its Quintana, okay. But you better fix more than one position with this trade. Trading and fixing just catcher when giving up your most prized possession doesnt work for me. I will take Sale's word and contract for it. Should I trust in Sale's word or a pessimistic Sox fan speaking on Sale's behalf? I'm not taking a cheap shot here but LipMan is speculating that Sale is unhappy despite what Sale himself has said. Has pessimism become so pathetic for Sox fans that fans now speak on the players behalf?

QUOTE (Lip Man 1 @ Sep 24, 2015 -> 10:48 AM) When discussing possible Sale trades everyone seems to leave out something. Namely what does Sale want? I've never heard or seen anything indicating he wants out...yet. But keep in mind when the season ends in two weeks he'll have five and a half years of service in the big leagues...and still won't have ever pitched in a post season game. That has got to be bothering a guy as competitive as he is. Sooner or later (probably sooner) if the Sox continue to look like buffoons on a baseball diamond Sale (or his agent) are going to cross a line and say "I'm leaving when my deal is up so trade me for what you can and get me out of here." Mark According to Chris Sale: "There's something to be said for being with a team your whole career and going through the ups and downs," Sale said. "I've been up, I've been down, and I think for me, I would love to win. "I would love to be on a winning team, but I just want it to be here. I don't want to go anywhere else. I don't want to be in a different uniform just because they are good now." http://m.mlb.com/news/article/138478112/ch...-sox-resurgence

The Dodgers showed at the deadline just how much they value the likes of Urias, Barnes and Seager by refusing to trade them, according to the rumors. I think DA is spot on, too much for the Dodgers and not enough for the Sox. I'm not against trading any Sox player but determining Sale's value is a difficult task to say the least.

Would love to see a full scale rebuild but with Reinsdorf being 79, it is not going to happen. We're going to hear more of the three year window/ rebuild on the fly PR bulls*** just like we've been hearing. Sucks, but that's the reality of it.

QUOTE (elrockinMT @ Sep 23, 2015 -> 10:33 AM) Let's get some hits today Sox have hit Verlander in the past so you might get your wish. Hopefully Montas goes five with some run support and gets the win.

QUOTE (OmarComing25 @ Sep 22, 2015 -> 07:30 PM) They took Norris out? I think Norris is still working his way back from time on the DL so that's likely why, I'm guessing.

QUOTE (soxfan2014 @ Sep 22, 2015 -> 05:33 PM) Samardzija switched agencies today. No way he accepts the QO. I was about to chime in and say the same thing. Switching agents most certainly means he's going to free agency and the Sox extend the QO to which Samardzija refuses. II happily admit that I was wrong to think about not extending the QO.