BlackSox13

QUOTE (LDF @ Jun 13, 2015 -> 06:10 PM) and therein lies the problem, which i was trying to lead my discussion toward. many posters are saying trade this player or that player, and unless they see the other side, what will be the end results, well, you help me show my reasoning. so the question is still there, how to fix this club?? I wish I had an answer. Just ride the wave and see where the Sox stand in late July. Hope some guys comes around.

Samardzija, Soto, Sanchez, Gillaspie, Noesi, Duke, Boni, Shuck and Guerra.

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Jun 13, 2015 -> 04:43 PM) If there's no way to improve the offense internally over the next 2-3 years...other than Micah, Anderson, Hawkins and maybe Trey M., what's the argument for keeping Sale, Abreu, Robertson and Quintana? Because buying aging free agents at topline value definitely's not working. You are almost forced to make moves where you hope to get two or three (young) above-average hitters for your most valuable assets...then use your ability to identify and develop pitchers to build around Rodon and Fulmer. Whoa. I'm only here to comment on the idea of trading Q. The trading of Sale and/or Abreu is Pandora's box around these parts. I don't deny the Sox need a lot of help offensively but what your getting at sounds is a full scale rebuild and I'm not ready to go there just yet. I'm holding out to see how this team looks in mid to late July. The offense has shown brief signs of life here and there so I still cling to that last thread of hope.

End this thread NOW!

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Jun 13, 2015 -> 04:09 PM) At some point we need to find some offense somewhere. We keep drafting all these pitchers for a reason, at some point we need to cash them in. We're not going to win anything with the #3 rotation in baseball, the #29 defense, and the #30 offense. It just isn't working. Don't we see enough cpmplaining about Danks and Samardzija ( myself included on this one)? Now we're going to add one of Drabek, Johnson, Carroll to that mix? Dear god no. I can see using one of those three to replace Samardzija's spot in 2016 while the Sox wait for Fulmer, Montas,Danish. But to replace Q? No thanks. Maybe this team needs to learn how to draft better hitters. Besides. Trading Q for offense is not going to help Cabrera, Eaton and LaRoche ( better lately) swing better bats.

QUOTE (LDF @ Jun 13, 2015 -> 12:34 PM) but the sox needs 2 key prospects from Hou. cat and 3b and as you said, the team talking to chi, will really need to wow them. but like anything, conversation on the sports forum is way different than talk in the FO. btw..... excellent post. My thinking is, the Sox do not trade a cheap cost controlled #2 without getting his replacement in return. Trading Q to fill other holes is not a bad idea but it does create a huge void in the rotation.

QUOTE (greg775 @ Jun 13, 2015 -> 02:37 PM) Eaton needs a break. This will be good for him. He probably should be benched by Robin, not Parent though. Agreed Greg. A brake for Eaton is over due. I like that Eaton voiced his displeasure and wants to play but in the article below, Eaton comes across as needing a pacifier with honey and an afternoon nappy. http://m.whitesox.mlb.com/news/article/130...out-on-saturday

The only way it makes sense to trade Q is if the Sox were to get a package ( for example) starting with McCullers from Houston. Given Q's cheap contract, it might raise Houston's eyebrow despite not wanting to trade McCullers. That said, I still stand behind a front three of Sale, Rodon and Q for years to come and at some point hopefully Fulmer as well. The Sox are in a position where a team would really have to WOW the Sox in order to obtain Q or the Sox just give them the finger ( not literally).

Here is Fulmer's stats for his three years at Vandy. His numbers improved as a starter. http://www.thebaseballcube.com/players/pro...P=carson-fulmer

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Jun 13, 2015 -> 07:46 AM) [/b] Which I would bet it why we traded him very, very quickly. The McCarthy/Danks trade is a while ago so forgive me if I'm wrong but didn't the Sox have durability concerns with McCarthy's high arm slot delivery that led to the trade in the first place? IIRC, the Sox wanted McCarthy to lower his arm slot but McCarthy refused and not long after that he was gone. I think the Sox were concerned about how the high arm slot is tougher on the rotator cuff. Where's ptatc when ya need him?

Hits for low average Does not walk much Poor defender Had zero trade value leading to his release Had no ST And he's holding out for an MLB deal and its mid June? That's just foolish. Take the minor league contract and hit your way back to the majors because that's the only way it will happen. I'm curious if this is Viciedo's decision or is he listening to his agent? Edit: Holy hell I spoke too soon! I finished typing this and boom, a few posts ahead said he just signed. Strike this post from the record please.

QUOTE (LDF @ Jun 12, 2015 -> 07:46 AM) this is funny.... i my weird way of thinking, i was expecting to see a "MR" in front of each name sitting around a table in a dinner. Now that you mention it, Mr. would be a nice touch. I'll remember that next time.

QUOTE (SCCWS @ Jun 12, 2015 -> 07:31 AM) Amazing. You can't make some of this stuff up. Hopefully there won't be anyone wearing Sox gear protesting the graduation. The Westboro White Sox Fans will be well represented at graduation.

Lol. I fail to see a legitimate comparison between a working class father that works 9-5 five days a week ( granted some work longer hours) and a baseball father that works all hours of the day 5-7 days a week from February into October plus what they do in the off season. Also. The working class father has the luxury of seeing his family every day and is not separated by hundreds/thousands of miles. Apple meet orange, orange say hello to apple. I'm really curious as to how many pages this thread will be by Sunday evening.

Just letting you guys know that the #7 pick is Blake Hickman. I hate spell check too. Anyway. Great work on the draft posting all the draft info. Well done!

QUOTE (Joshua Strong @ Jun 10, 2015 -> 11:07 PM) Not bothered by it, family always comes first. Absolutely Joshua and id like to think if any of us were in Robin's shoes, wed do the same thing. A parent must be there for his family is special moments like these and if it takes three days then so be it. The team will be waiting for him when he returns.

Another great pitching performance. Hopefully Samardzija can continue this Friday in Tampa. Way to go Q!

QUOTE (Jerksticks @ Jun 10, 2015 -> 08:34 PM) Well said my friend. QUOTE (GoodAsGould @ Jun 10, 2015 -> 08:57 PM) Its baseball, a manager missing a series doesn't matter much.... I can see if it was any of the other sports where the coach has a much bigger impact. Seriously, were talking about 3 games out of 162!

QUOTE (Dunt @ Jun 10, 2015 -> 08:09 PM) Lost both Ryu and McCarthy for the season I knew about McCarthy but missed Ryu somehow so thanks for the heads up. Some kind of a Guerrero for Samardzija swap could be a possibility if the Sox are out of it when the deadline comes around. Samardzija would benefit from pitching in those big NLW ballparks. A rental could be what the Dodgers prefer given the contracts of the pitchers they already have. There's potential for a good fit. For now, I'm content to wait and see how this team plays. The Sox have a month and a half to get back into it before the deadline.

Good grief its only three days,lol. According to the CalPoly website, the graduation ceremonies are Saturday and Sunday. With all the prep of packing, getting to the airport early for check in, a 6+ hour flight and then going through baggage claim, its a full day of travel. Same thing for the return flight. So Robin needs Friday for travel, Saturday and part of Sunday for graduation and then fly back. Yep, three days sounds about right. I really hope Robin enjoys the time with his family.

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Jun 10, 2015 -> 07:33 PM) I think he's worth anyone in the system not named Anderson, Montas or Fulmer. Also depends on the financials....how much of that contract the Dodgers are willing to offset. Wouldn't imagine they'd want to help out a fellow National League competitor and possibly see him again in the playoffs...would prefer to send him to the AL undoubtedly. Guererro's contract is relatively cheap. He's owed the balance of his 2015 6.5M salary and will make 7.5M in each of the 2016/17 seasons. That followed by three arbitration years. I would take on that salary no problem. My hangup would be Guerrero only playing 9 games at third but he has no errors so far,lol. Any idea what kind of shape the dodger rotation is in? Are they looking for starters?

QUOTE (Dunt @ Jun 10, 2015 -> 04:19 PM) Didn't he have a daughters graduation to go to last year as well? That could be, he has three daughters.

Good for him. I see no problem with him being there for his daughters graduation. Its only three days and it may even do Robin some good.

QUOTE (Eminor3rd @ Jun 10, 2015 -> 11:07 AM) Definitely, especially with how much Sale has INSISTED on getting ahead in the count. I think that;s the absolute key for Rodon's success. To me, Rodon's is just a completely different pitch than Sale's, because Rodon's comes in on the same plane as his fastball before breaking really late. Rodon's slider is a "foo you" pitch, whereas Sale's is a "just go ahead and try to make contact with this because you know it's going to be bending through the zone at some point" pitch. So for Rodon, it's essential that the batter has to be protecting the plate on the slider, because they ALL know it's there, but they've got to guess anyway because they can't afford for it to be a fastball because of the count. I'm not sure of the numbers (if these are available anywhere), but it really seems like a lot of Rodon's walk come in the 4-straight-balls category or close, because when he gets behind, hitters just let that slider go since it NEVER lands in the zone and they have strikes to give up in case it's actually a fastball. Again, I could not agree more. Very good analysis. Sale's slider really is something. To me, when Sale throws that slider he's telling the hitter " here it is, good luck, ha ha!". Man, that slider really is something! You are absolutely spot on with Rodon. Hitters wave at the slider much more when he lands the fastball for a strike ahead of it. Once Rodon establishes better fastball command, his Slider and developing change will be more effective. If Rodon can establish better command with his fastball and change, he could predominantly use the slider for strikeouts and help save that elbow. Look at Q. There's nothing fancy about his repertoire, he just pounds the zone with good location of the small selection of pitches he commands. Back to Sale. The difference between now and the few starts he was roughed up in is command. When he got roughed up he looked more like an effectively wild pitcher in comparison to what we are witnessing now. Sale is just in a league of his own right now.

QUOTE (Eminor3rd @ Jun 10, 2015 -> 09:21 AM) Three pitches, I think, is the ultimate requirement for consistently being able to pitch well deep into the game, because it gives you a weapon for the third time through the lineup. The other night we saw him go fastball/slider almost exclusively the first time through, start adding the change in tough spots the second time through (and honestly it didn't look real good at first), and then start to lean on the change as a wipeout the third time through (and it looked fantastic). I'm starting to wonder if there's a correlation between those "one bad inning" guys (like Edwin Jackson, John Danks, etc.) and the number of legitimate pitches they have. Maybe if you only have two good pitches, you're constantly going to be at risk for a meltdown the third time through the order. Alright, that's it. I want Eminor3rd sitting next to Stone doing broadcasts. Hawk is now retired. I like your thinking here and the only thing I can add is that Sale shows you do not need a deep repertoire of pitches to be elite. Just imagine this rotation if Rodon (same pitch selection as Sale) follows in Sale's footsteps with the change up and overall command of his pitches. That would make two elite #1's at the top of the rotation with Q pitching #3 who is more of a #2. And hopefully in due time, Fulmer will be in that mix setting this rotation up for some really good years to come. Sale is well on his way to being a mentor and that you cannot put a price on.