BlackSox13

QUOTE (Eminor3rd @ Oct 15, 2014 -> 09:37 AM) Didn't Gillaspie have a public falling out with SFG before they dumped him? I doubt they'd want him back. Also, I think it would take more. Like Montas/Semien/random flyer or two. Maybe even a stronger #2 piece than Semien, actually. I did not know that about Gillaspie, there goes that... Let's put it this way. Since Belt is likely to fill the LF void left by Morse, the Sox will likely have to over pay to get Belt and that's not likely to happen either. I would love to have Belt but the idea is just not very reasonable. Montas could be used as part of a package for Travis Snyder tho.

QUOTE (lasttriptotulsa @ Oct 15, 2014 -> 06:57 AM) Are you really trying to say that fielding % has any sort of relevance in deciding how good of a defender an outfielder is? Come on. I think we can just forget the Melky Cabrera talk anyways. Toronto wants to extend him and is going to make a qualifying offer. Melky has also stated he would like to stay in Toronto because they are the ones that gave him a chance after his PED suspension. It's just a matter of time before they sign him to an extension. Point taken on the fielding %. As for Cabrera. I had not heard that he and Toronto have mutual interest, so if that's true I'll shift focus elsewhere. Markakis' keeps popping up but didn't Baltimore say they wanted to extend him despite declining to extend a QO to him? I didn't realize Markakis hit lefties that well, he would fit perfect behind Eaton as someone has already pointed out. Another benefit is Markakis playing RF would move Avi to LF where he belongs.

QUOTE (SCCWS @ Oct 15, 2014 -> 07:27 AM) Semien was worse than Gillaspie at 3B. 10 errors in 31 games is a red flag that he would at least need a full season in AAA learning 3B if that is what management plans for him. Semien has played 2B, 3B, SS and i believe LF in 2014. Hard to be good defensively when one is constantly being shuttled around. I do agree that Semien's defense needs work, regardless of where he plays. QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Oct 15, 2014 -> 07:36 AM) The Pirates are now extremely strong at 3b. Josh Harrison had an all star caliber season out of no where and has absolutely taken over that position full time. On top of that, Pedro Alvarez can't play 3b any more, he's got a case of the "yips" where every time he gets a slow ground ball to 3b he air mails the throw into the right field stands. They were trying to shift him over to 1b to have something to use him for late in the season when he had an injury flash. Short version; the Pirates had a guy at 3b who almost won the batting title this year. They're not adding a 3b right now. I'm not going to lie, that's a huge over sight on my part and thanks for pointing it out. Don't know how I missed Harrison but I did.

QUOTE (greg775 @ Oct 14, 2014 -> 11:49 PM) Please no Melky. Somebody tell the White Sox we fans will be sickened and saddened if the Sox acquire that bum. Please no Melky. I'd rather have Aoki if it means Melky is a White Sox. Believe it or not I'd rather have Adam Dunn next season than cheater Melky. Yes I am totally serious. Sign Dunn if it keeps Melky away. I'm respect your opinion but speak for yourself. I and a few other Sox fans welcome the idea of Melky playing LF in 2015 and beyond.

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Oct 14, 2014 -> 11:22 PM) Would like to see Smith as the back-up someday, but Smith will be at Charlotte with Nieto at BIRM. Maybe they'll bring in a veteran to push out or at least compete with Phegley, like Geo Soto. Have you forgotten about Flowers? Unless Flowers is traded, Phegley will be competing for the backup role. IMO, Phegley is traded at some point during the off season and the Sox look for a LH backup or possibly a starter.

Good gawd KC, Paulie's blessing has gone a long long way! I've been cheering for Baltimore but I respect the hell out of KC. They are playing damn good baseball.

QUOTE (TheFutureIsNear @ Oct 14, 2014 -> 10:17 PM) I just don't see Markakis leaving Baltimore. I see them declining the option and keeping him at a home town discount long term extension. He just seems like that type of guy. And I still think Rasmus is a more sensible option over Melky. I like melky and think he's a good player, but I see him getting something like 3/42 if we have to outbid multiple suitors + lose our 2nd rounder. Just seems like a pretty steep price to pay for a LF who likely won't hit 20 home runs and isn't all that great in the field either. Actually, Melky had a .992 fielding % in LF the last two years. That's a huge upgrade over what the Sox have been getting. Rasmus has more power but cannot hit for average like Melky but Rasmus has more power. One thing to point out is Melky hits well against both left and right handed pitchers whereas Rusmus hit .196 against lefties in 2014. Melky is also a better contact hitter with less strike outs. They both have their pros and con's so in suppose it comes down to preference. I have no problem giving up a pick for Melky.

QUOTE (MAX @ Oct 14, 2014 -> 09:10 PM) I think you missed the mark on my reasoning. Are people in sports going to use drugs while on your favorite team? Yes, they are. The team really has no choice in the matter. When the team chooses to attract and acquire a proven cheat with a tens of millions of dollars that is entirely different. I understand that I have taken a hard stance on this but that's how I feel. I think of all the pitchers who were affected by Cabrera's cheating and it makes me sick. He likely contributed to the demise of some young pitchers careers while using PEDs. The consequences of his actions are far reaching and not easily defined. Think of all the hitters affected by pitchers cheating, which happens all the time. Vaseline, sand paper, emery board (Niekro), pine tar and pushing up on the seams to raise them up a bit for grip which I remember years ago Buehrle speaking about doing himself. Cheating is a two way street. I'm not justifying it, just pointing out that hitters aren't the only ones that have cheated and in fact pitchers were cheating long before hitters. With millions of dollars at stake, its easy to see how cheating happens. Both pitchers and hitters alike are equally guilty. OK, I'm done, please carry on.

QUOTE (daa84 @ Oct 14, 2014 -> 08:11 PM) s*** is he nasty! That's a kid that could fast track to the majors as a reliever/closer.

QUOTE (TheFutureIsNear @ Oct 14, 2014 -> 07:29 PM) Ehh I think it would take a bit more than Phegley...maybe Phegley and Snodgress or some decent arm like that. Either way it would be a small price to pay for a young left handed hitter that could hit 25 HR's in the middle of our lineup. As far as him being a free agent, I had no idea. Good call. I still don't think it should hinder us from trading for him though. If he earns a new contract its a big plus...But now that you bring that up it actually does make sense for the Pirates to trade him. They should definitely get something for him now while they can because the odds of him resigning in Pittsburgh are slim with the talent they already have. My s*** throwing just became realistic, who woulda thought lol Careful now, keep talking realistically and its no longer s*** throwing. I'm not sure Snoddy is enough to be honest but then again I'm not sure what would be enough without being too much. I can definitely see the possibility of some interest in Phegley though. What's makes this difficult is the only other weakness on the Pirates as far as positions go is at 3B with Alvarez's high strikeouts and low BA. I know, let's trade John Danks to the Pirates!

Thanks for posting the list LDF. I would imagine Danish, Montas and Hawkins can't be too far above 100.

QUOTE (Eminor3rd @ Oct 14, 2014 -> 06:58 PM) I think this is the type of guy that would have to start a conversation about, say, Belt. As I said in another thread, with Morse heading to FA and leaving LF vacant it makes too much sense for the Giants to put Belt in LF. But for conversations sake, Lets say he can be had for the right price. I agree that Montas would raise an eye but what else do the Sox have to send with Montas that the Sox aren't trying to hold onto? I wonder if there's any chance they would have interest in Gillaspie since it looks like Panda is going to FA. I don't think Gillaspie/ Montas makes a trade but could be intriguing enough for trade discussions to continue/ get started.

Would love to sign Melky. If the Sox stick with Flowers at catcher, I would kick the tires on bringing AJ back as a backup to give Nieto everyday at bats in the minors. For some reason I doubt the Yanks let Headley go but if they do I wouldn't mind him depending on the contract he was looking for. That's about it for me. Edit: Interested in LaRoche as well.

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Oct 14, 2014 -> 06:37 PM) What asset do we currently possess that the Giants would accept for Belt? Let's get away from Erik Johnson/Davidson/Thompson/Walker/Beck/Mitchell type ideas and back to reality. Fwiw, Hanley Ramirez is MUCH more comfortable at 3B than 2B. Belt: I don't know what his value is so its difficult to say. I don't see the Giants trading Belt since they will lose Morse to FA, they can just play Belt in LF. As much as I like the idea of Belt, I think its more a pipe dream than anything. As for Hanley, I agree. I only mentioned 2B due to his speed and the possible desire for the Sox to play Semien at 3B. As for the farm guys you listed. I agree they hold little to no value at this point but could serve as a PTBN in a trade, the type that tips the scale just enough for the other teams GM to bite.

QUOTE (TheFutureIsNear @ Oct 14, 2014 -> 06:08 PM) Again, didn't read the 1st 14 pages of this thread so don't know if he's been mentioned yet, but what about Travis Snider? He doesn't exactly have a ton of MLB success yet, but he's still 26 and has some great pedigree as a top prospect not that long ago. His slash of .264/.338/.438 wasn't exactly bad for a part time player and his 13 HR's is 359 AB's is pretty good. I'm sure the Pirates aren't exactly in a hurry to trade him as he's still fairly cheap, but with McCutchen, Polanco, and Marte in their OF already I'm sure they can be convinced....As to what it would take to get him? No clue, its tough call on what his value is (he wasn't trade for much originally) and what the Pirates need. Hadn't thought of Snyder but if the cost was reasonable I would not object. 13 HR in 359 plate appearances is not bad at all.If the Pirates lose Martin, I wonder if they would be intrigued by Phegley? Snyder for Phegley cannot be too far off base. The only hangup I see is Snyder is only under team control for 2015/16 and a FA after that. If he hit well in 2015 he could be extended. I like your thinking here. Sign Melky and now the Sox have four OF's to rotate into the DH role to keep legs fresh.

QUOTE (raBBit @ Oct 14, 2014 -> 03:09 PM) As for the last part on Belt, I have made my argument several times and you have obviously noted that so why go through it again? You have to give to get. Belt, who only has potential to be available (rather than a certainty with a FA), would add to the young core and fill a need. Many people praised and agreed with that suggestion. You mention that you're "just throwing s*** out there" every time someone pokes a hole in one of your suggestions and while it is a dead period of the offseason, we should aim to have our suggestions within the realm of possibility. I am not going to say "Hey, let's get Mike Trout" just for the sake of "throwing s*** out there." When I throw something out there I try to make it fit with the direction of the team. I can make up a bunch of random moves just for the sake of doing so but I don't find that to be worth anyone's time because the front office isn't even considering the stuff you're throwing out there. Just because a guy is without a contract doesn't mean it makes more sense to acquire him than a better fit via trade. If I had a big board it would include guys like the following: Belt - fits in the core, great offensive profile, LH bat Headley - defense, potential surplus value Grandal - position, room for growth Ethier - good fit, OF and LHB, likely we'd have to send little to LAD Van Slyke - potentially undervalued, versatile Hochevar - coming off injury, good track record despite missing last season Tomas - add to the young core, great power potential, fits positional need Cabrera - good LH bat, fits positional need Maeda - although I'd like to know much more about him, top Japanese pitcher, adds to young core, fills middle of the rotation RHSP Peavy - fills RHSP void, potential to be flipped in things fall apart I could add more but that's off the dome. My interest in these guys is all conditional. For instance, if the Giants won't trade Belt without getting Quintana in return then I am not interested. If Headley wants 100 million then I won't champion that acquisition. If Melky requires compensation and he wants 15 million a year than I move on the next option. The guys the Sox are going to be looking at all have a cost to acquire, a position, a track record and a fit to the team. The guys with the best intersection of these parameters will be brought in. So when you're "throwing s*** out here" ask yourself a few things before going down that road. Take Hanley for example. 1.) Cost to acquire: Hanley is a premier free agent who will most likely have compensation tied to him. It will likely cost 100 million and our 2nd round draft pick and the allotment of that pick. Very steep. He would become the most expensive acquisition in White Sox history and that's not even factoring in the detriment to next year's draft. No fit here. 2.) Position: He is the worst defensive shortstop in baseball and more likely to be pegged for 3B as a free agent. We have Gillaspie/Semien and Hanley is too expensive, doesn't bat LH and doesn't add any defensive value. You suggest 2B, a position that he's never played and we will almost certainly fill internally. Not fit here. 3.) Track record: He's been a very good play in many seasons and has been injured recently. High performance = high salary. Injuries + aging = less inclination to sign long term. So while his track record isn't a detriment to bringing him in it does add to his cost to acquire and decreases the likelihood he returns on the contract he'll sign. 4.) Fit the trajectory of the team: Sox are looking to add to the young core of Sale, Abreu, Quintana, Eaton and others. Does signing a 31 year old to a lofty and potentially crippling contract add to the core? Perhaps, it does. I would definitely lean towards no as would the organization but that's debatable at least. In the end, Hanley is old, expensive and not a fit on the field or in the grand scheme of things. I wasn't merely poking a hole; signing Hanley Ramirez to a long term contract to play 2B is about as off-base as you can get when it comes to "throwing s*** out there" for the 2015 White Sox. Finally, some rational instead of quick one or two sentence comments. I like it. Just because you don't see the idea's as realistic does not mean that aren't. I don't care if people want to poke holes, that's fine with me, I just like remind people because I don't want them thinking I'm taking the ideas too serious. As I've stated, just thinking outside the box because a lot of times those are the moves that are made. Moves fans do not see coming much less thought of. Then again, maybe its better to wait for the next idiot sports writer to throw some random ideas out there so people can run around the board regurgitating what they had read... Belt: I'm on board with the idea 1000% and in fact love the idea depending on what the Sox would send to the Giants. It would be costly and I'm not sure what the Giants would want in return but I agree with you when you said no way if its Q. Hanley: please don't say Hanley is too old (31 this december) when likes of Ethier (32), Adam LaRoche (35 this November) and VMart (36 this december) have been mentioned. As for his defense, the guy is more than athletic enough to play 3rd or 2B and in fact as short stops age they usually end up at third anyway due to losing range so then Semien goes to 2B. Yes Hanley will cost a pick but last I read the Sox want to compete in 2015 so its going to cost money, draft picks or young players from the minors. Im not saying Hanley is the best fit or the best idea, just something to be considered. I don't he will get more than a 4 year deal which takes him to Hahn is in a difficult position because the farm isn't loaded with enough talent to make a bunch of trades to fill holes and still have plenty of talent left over. If the mindset is to not sign players that would cost second or third round picks then I have to ask, are they planning on competing or still rebuilding? The first pick is protected so given a thin farm, a protected first round pick, this is the year to sign FA's because its likely the first round pick in 2016 will not be protected. As for a young core, I agree with the idea. Problem is, the Sox will have to part with young minor league talent to get the players that are in the mid twenties that the Sox are looking for. The farm just is not deep enough and why the Sox likely should look at free agents if they REALLY want to compete. They have plenty of room in the payroll. As for your suggested targets, I like most of them and agree. Except for a few. Headley- I see the attraction defensively speaking but unsure about his bat. Plus, if the Yanks are considering ARod at first it could be an indicator that they want to keep Headley. Maeda- the guy is listed at 5'11" and 156lbs. I just don't trust him to stay healthy for the duration of a long term deal issued to a guy with no MLB experience and has to adjust to pitching every 5th start. Just my opinion but I wouldn't so much as kick the tires. Tomas- he surely fits core age that Hahn has been speaking about but according to the scouting reports he also fits the mold of Viciedo part deux. Other than those three I do like your suggestions and I really hope the Sox go after Melky first and foremost as far as free agents are concerned.

QUOTE (raBBit @ Oct 14, 2014 -> 01:59 PM) 2B - Alex Guerrero who they just threw 32 million at and put up nearly a 1.000 OPS in 300+ PAs in the minors. Why would the Sox sign Hanley Ramirez for 15-20 million a year to play a position they already have three of their top prospects at? Or even worse, have him play the most important defensive position on the field where he has already proved he is of baseball's worst... Why would the Sox trade one of their best assets and best defenders in Alexei for an albatross who's skill set could be found on the FA market? Changing the names in the lineup and spending gross amounts of money isn't going to take this team where it needs to be. I forgot all about Guerrero. A healthy Hanley is a better bat than Sanchez or Johnson and I've already said that Semien would play third unless Hanley preferred third in which case Semien goes to 2B. As for Alexei. One of the reasons I mentioned in a previous post, Gillaspie and Sanchez for Ethier was so the Sox would keep Alexei for SS as well as the Dodgers get to shed the payroll. Try to keep up... As I've said before and I'll say again, I'm throwing s*** out there is all. Instead of nitpicking why not throw some ideas and scenarios out there yourself. You've spoke a few times about Brandon Belt. Are the Giants even willing to trade him? What would it cost the Sox to get him? Do the Sox have the players to get him? If so would if be players the Sox were hoping to keep?

QUOTE (raBBit @ Oct 14, 2014 -> 01:15 PM) I just think you're having trouble figuring the value of the players you are mentioning. I don't deny that I do not know about how much value Gillaspie and Sanchez have. I do know that the Dodgers plan to slide Gordon back to SS which leaves 2B and 3B open which is why I threw Gillaspie and Sanchez out there. Plus, they are cheap which helps the Dodgers bring the payroll down.

QUOTE (Eminor3rd @ Oct 14, 2014 -> 11:09 AM) I'm excited about Montas. That said, I wouldn't mind trading him at the crest of his hype. I'm not saying SHOP him, but if we want to get in on some star-level guy on the trade market, I'd love to dangle Montas as a centerpiece. Reasons: 1. Velocity doesn't go anywhere but down. Guys with great velo and poor command tend to quickly turn into guys with ok velo and poor command. Scouting report sounds eerily similar to Ubaldo. 2. Selling high on him would cap a great return for Peavy. This guy was a distant #2 piece that has turned into what is currently a very valuable asset. 3. Pitchers get hurt, especialyl when they throw 80-grade gas. Risky to keep this asset, less risky to give it to someone else in exchange for the bird in the hand. This is an interesting idea with logical points made to support it. I agree that a guy like Montas does not need to be shopped as teams will naturally inquire about his availability. I'm very curious as to what kind of return Montas would bring or with him as part of a package.

QUOTE (StRoostifer @ Oct 14, 2014 -> 12:52 PM) OK, how's about Gillaspie and Sanchez to LA for Ethier? Sign Hanley to play 2B. QUOTE (raBBit @ Oct 14, 2014 -> 12:58 PM) Trading Alexei and Gillaspie for an albatross and signing Hanley Ramirez to play SS for a team that has a pitching philosophy based on producing ground balls...Yikes. There is that idea above. ^ Since you're not in the Ethier fan club, the Sox could trade for Belt and still sign Ramirez to play 2B while playing Semien at 3B or vice versa. Then all the Sox need is a 4th OF/DH type like say... Domonic Brown?

QUOTE (raBBit @ Oct 14, 2014 -> 12:51 PM) Happy offseason! That it would be no doubt. This isn't my idea tho, I stole the idea from Hahn's white board in his office.

QUOTE (Eminor3rd @ Oct 14, 2014 -> 12:31 PM) I know you're being whimsical (hence and ), but Hanley is not a SS at this point. We wouldn't be able to handle that, IMO. Also, Alexei and Gillaspie better net us more than Etheri and a low level prospect, haha. All I can say is you sir are a Debbie Downer! OK, how's about Gillaspie and Sanchez to LA for Ethier? Sign Hanley to play 2B.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Oct 14, 2014 -> 12:12 PM) It also matters whether the Dodgers really are looking for a significant payroll cut. If they need to drop payroll, then it will be really hard for them to take Danks back and send money along. Agreed. Taking Danks and sending money with Ethier would negate a nice size portion of the potential savings as far as the Dodgers are concerned. Assuming they really do want to shed 50M off of next years payroll. On the flip side they do have Hanley and Uribe's salaries coming off the books so if they nickel and dime here and there it can happen. So, instead the Sox send Alexei and Gillaspie to LA for Ethier and a low level prospect. Then the Sox put Semien at 3B, sign Hanley to play SS, sign Melky to play LF with Ethier being the 4th OF/ DH. The rest of the money goes into the bullpen and we all hold hands while skipping down the street together into the 2015 playoffs.

Oh good grief. Davidson at 23 has one bad season in the minors and he's no longer a prospect? That's just silly. Now if Davidson tanks again at Charlotte in 2015, then I can see saying he's not a prospect but for now, he absolutely IS a prospect.

I liked the trade at the time, but now not so much. Davidson is only 23 so there's still hope but for now, AZ got the better end of the deal no doubt.