BlackSox13

QUOTE (Joshua Strong @ Sep 26, 2014 -> 12:01 AM) Never over value your own talent, if the Dodgers called and offered Urias and Seager for Quintana, the Sox would be stupid to say no Nobody is over valuing talent when it comes to Q. He's just 25, has 200 IP in each of the last two years, left handed, signed very cheap and his ERA has steadily gone each year. He's a very good #3 at worst and a case can be made for a #2, which I lead towards myself. Q has plenty of value and if a team wants to pry him out Chicago, they will have to pay rather heavily. Obviously Hahn and co feel Q has a lot of value to the Sox future contending teams and they are right. Why settle for Sale and Rodon when the Sox already have Sale, Q and Rodon to build around?

QUOTE (Joshua Strong @ Sep 25, 2014 -> 11:07 PM) In 2015, not a chance, (Mind you that I have Rodon being anointed a starter after the break.) but going forward yes. 2015 is going to be another and hopefully the last rebuilding year for the Sox. There are still a lot of holes and question marks going forward and the team needs to acquire assets if they hope to be a serious contender going forward. Quintana is a highly valuable commodity and he would bet the Sox a serious return of prospects as teams are going to overpay for a LHP, who is under 30, a quality start machine and is signed to a very team friendly contract. Having Quintana on the team is good for 2015, but what about the future going forward? And the Sox are going to need multiple starters that can do what Q is capable of. I don't know about you but Sale, Q and Rodon in the same rotation for the next 4-6 years sounds pretty solid. Hopefully two of Bassitt, Noesi, Montas or Danish will be able to solidify the other two spots in the next 1-2 years and the rotation is set and a rather cheap one at that. Filling one hole and creating another doesn't make any sense to be honest. I'm really not against the idea of trading any player but guys like Q are valuable like you said, will be needed on a contending team and the haul would have to be overwhelming. For example, negotiations with a team like the Dodgers would start with Julio Urias and one of Joc Pederson or Corey Seager or else forget it.

QUOTE (Joshua Strong @ Sep 25, 2014 -> 10:38 PM) Rodin would replace Q in the rotation. Do think Rodon can match Q's 200IP and 3.32 ERA? That setting the expectations just a bit high for Rodon. Plus more taxing on the pen.

Trading Q only creates another hole in a starting rotation that already has at least one hole.

QUOTE (raBBit @ Sep 25, 2014 -> 12:18 PM) Why does the Sox picking 8-10 make them more likely to pick a high school player? Reread the post you quoted and then read your own.

QUOTE (Joshua Strong @ Sep 25, 2014 -> 01:02 AM) Baseball America is really down on the overall crop of college players in this draft class. They say all the elite talent, with an exception of a few are all high schoolers. Strengths of the draft class are: HS Athletes and Hs Pitching (Velocity). With the Sox likely to pick in the 8-10 range this could be a draft where the Sox grab a high school talent in the first round. Its still way too early since there's still one season of college and high school to be played before June's draft next year. Its still fun to talk about since the Sox will have a top 10 pick.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Sep 24, 2014 -> 07:49 PM) With his reaction, how can you think anything but that? Why else would he have acted like he did today? He absolutely thought that and threw at Martinez in retaliation. Then he lied his ass of to the press to cover his rear end from getting suspended. Like I said to rabbit, I can appreciate you sticking up for a player on your favorite team. What I'm saying and sticking by is that Sale was wrong, it was obvious, it was chicken s*** and the wrong way to handle the situation. Instead of allowing the paranoia to build, why didn't Sale and Flowers bring their concerns to the Umps instead of lashing out like f***ing child? I also agree with Ausmus in that Victor didn't need somebody giving him signs last time Victor was at US Cellular so why all the sudden now? Because Sale let one lonely little heckler get to him and it created paranoia in Sale's mind before first pitch. Again, I'm not saying Sale should come out and admit to hitting Martinez on purpose. That was never even the issue with me and my previous posts show that. My issue is that Sale acted like a kid having a tantrum during the game and then denied like a kid after the game. The kid needs to grow up and not allow hecklers to get under his skin. Pretty sad how Sale let one heckler and a fan in CF with binoculars to get into his head. I don't like the Tigers but I agree with them on this. I know if the situations were reversed I'd be pretty pissed and I know many on this board would be too.

QUOTE (Chilihead90 @ Sep 24, 2014 -> 10:55 PM) Today was a good day for us, draft pick wise. We moved in to the 9th pick tonight. We are now just 1.5 GB of the Cubs for the 8th pick 0.5 games ahead of the Phillies for the 10th pick 1 game ahead of the Reds for the 11th pick If the Padres win tonight, we will be 4 games ahead of the Marlins for a protected pick, which means we've got a 99.9999% of getting a protected pick, which at this point is really the only important thing. I'd obviously love to have the 8th pick vs. the 10th pick, but considering I am going to both Friday and Saturday's game, it will be hard for me to root against the Sox in both of those games, especially Paulie's game Saturday. Is that 99.99999999% approved by Wite?

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Sep 24, 2014 -> 07:11 PM) No. Immature is getting yourself suspended for no good reason. Suspended? Why do you keep assuming that Sale would be suspended? Are you admitting Sale really did think Victor was getting signs from a fan with binoculars way the hell out in CF? Can't wait to see this response...

QUOTE (raBBit @ Sep 24, 2014 -> 07:00 PM) How do you know it's a false accusation? Because the Tigers denied it? Sale denying it after the fact doesn't matter. If he had told the truth he would have lost cash money. He's a killer between the lines and a businessman outside of them and that's exactly what I'd want from our ace. You don't think its just a bit funny how the Sox are eerily quiet on this considering the days events?

QUOTE (raBBit @ Sep 24, 2014 -> 06:33 PM) I can't believe people calling Sale immature. I love Sale's fire. You have to have moxy to be an ace and no matter how high your moral high ground is, throwing at the opponent is a part of the pitching and the best pitchers have always done it. You have to throw inside and you have to own the plate. Fire is good and I like it about Sale as well. But causing a commotion and making/gesturing false accusations during a game, only to deny it after the game with some bulls*** excuse is immature as well as paranoid.

QUOTE (raBBit @ Sep 24, 2014 -> 06:29 PM) You're missing something here. Sale said he was gesturing a fan so it seemed as if tip of the hat was between himself and the heckler, not between him and Victor. If he starts talking about how there was a guy with binoculars, then it implies guilt, he probably gets suspended and loses money. Everyone on the field knows there was either a guy with binoculars or Sale just believed there was a guy with binoculars. Sale and Kinsler both did the hand binoculars and Martinez addressed it after Avi said something to him. On another note, I don't know why Garcia is talking to Martinez about what Sale said after the fact. That type of stuff shouldn't be out in the media within an hour of the game. Explain to me why Sale referred to the person with binoculars in CF as Martinez "boy" while motioning that direction? I haven't missed a thing. Watch the video, Sale was wrong and Avi's comment to Martinez just backs that up even more. I respect that you want to stick up for a player on the Sox but I'm sorry to say that Sale was wrong.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Sep 24, 2014 -> 06:12 PM) If Sale states he is throwing at Martinez for any reason, he gets a long suspension, and loses probably a weeks worth of paychecks. I call bulls*** on the fact that you wouldn't have done the same thing. It is like your wife asking if this makes her look fat. No matter what the answer really is, you know what the correct answer is. Reread my posts again. I'm calling bulls*** on Sale for denying he thought Detroit was stealing signs. Not once have I said Sale should admit to hitting Martinez on purpose and infact i agree he should not, so why are you so focused on that? Sorry but Sale is full of s*** on this one and I'm willing to bet if the roles were reversed this board would be lit up with pissed off Sox fans!

Just to back up my previous post... http://m.whitesox.mlb.com/news/2014/09/24/...s-following-hbp "Martinez said he received word of the sign-stealing accusation through White Sox right fielder Avisail Garcia, who came up with the Tigers in 2012 before being traded to Chicago at the July Trade Deadline last season. "He told me, 'They say you've got somebody behind there and he's giving you the signs.' And I'm like, 'Give me a break.'" " Just man up Sale and admit you made a mistake.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Sep 24, 2014 -> 05:25 PM) Sale isn't stupid enough to say that he was throwing at Martinez, even though the whole world knows he was. Why get yourself suspended? Here's my problem with all this. Sale becomes paranoid over a fan watching a baseball game from 400+ feet away in CF with binoculars. Really? Sale motions towards the fan in CF as the 3rd inning ends. In the 6th, Sale hits Martinez. After hitting Martinez, Sale accuses Martinez of getting signs from the person in CF while motioning that direction again. After the game Sale denies that he thought Detroit was stealing signs. Then Sale says he was motioning to a fan that was wearing him out during pre game warm up. All of this is what I call bulls*** about and why I think it was chicken s*** on Sale's part. I could respect Sale much more in all this if he just came out and said he f***ed up by thinking Detroit was stealing/receiving signs but no, he comes back with denial and a lame ass excuse. Don't get me wrong, its not like I dislike Sale at all but he does need to grow up and I hope he learns this experience.

Supposedly Sale is now denying that he thought Detroit was stealing signs. http://www.cbssports.com/mlb/eye-on-baseba...inez-with-pitch Sorry but I don't buy the explanation from Sale, I gotta call bulls***.

I'm not rooting one way or another but I will point out that tonights matchup is Price vs. Carroll.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Sep 23, 2014 -> 01:54 PM) It also picks up the same in his numbers when you look at how many times a batter sees Carroll as a SP... 1st AB .764 OPS against in 162 PA 2nd AB .771 OPS against in 162 PA 3rd AB 1.023 OPS against in 129 PA 4th AB 1.250 OPS against in 4 PA As a reliever 1st AB .574 OPS against in 53 PA 2nd AB .851 OPS against in 24 PA QUOTE (HickoryHuskers @ Sep 23, 2014 -> 01:57 PM) Yes, perfect candidate for long man in the pen. He can eat innings, is decent first time through the order, and he's not really a prospect so you don't stunt his growth. Could not agree more and the stats SS2K5 posted back that up 100%. I think Carroll is perfect for the job of LR in the pen. Plus its a hole in the pen that can be filled rather cheap.

Exactly. Carroll put up a 1.83 ERA in 19.2 innings as a reliever this year. A small sample but its something to go by and its likely he would be the long man in the pen.

QUOTE (Eminor3rd @ Sep 23, 2014 -> 12:14 PM) I actually kind of love the idea of throwing Stephen Drew in the mix in the event of an Alexei trade. Drew has been so abjectly bad that (1) there's no way he'll get paid anything significant and (2) there's no way he won't accidentally be better. That would be the type of signing where if one of the kids comes up and grabs the ML SS job by the nuts in the spring, you're fine just DFA'ing Drew. That's what I'm thinking. The Sox get a decent replacement for Alexei plus whatever prospect(s) they get from trading Alexei. Hopefully Anderson comes around with the glove and will be ready for 2016 . QUOTE (scs787 @ Sep 23, 2014 -> 12:33 PM) We really don't know that for sure. Rock has said in the past that when the Sox are ready to compete the payroll will be $100+. Right now pre arbitration the payroll is 43.8. Arbitration wise I can't imagine it being much more that 15M if they bring back Noesi, Tank, Flowers, and Jones. So IF there are guys they like to spend it on, and by that I mean they won't just spend money to spend money, it's possible they can be adding ~50M. I really don't think money will be an issue this offseason. Good points. I think I kind of forgot about Dunn's salary coming off the books. I still doubt the Sox buy a FA pitcher. Sherzer will cost big in terms of annual salary and the length of the contract, Shields is going to be 33 in December and likely to get a 3-4 year deal so I don't see him being a realistic option. The Sox could bring in salary via trade which I agree with but do the Sox have enough prospects to trade away while keeping something for the future? I'm glad I don't have Hahn's job.

QUOTE (glangon @ Sep 23, 2014 -> 12:02 PM) Yeps 1) Bring in a proven closer - A proven closer will set up the guys we already have to roles in the pen. We don't need to do a lot to the pen, but bringing in a closer would put the likes of Putnam, Petricka and Guerra in proper roles in the pen rather than being shuffled about to fill in. 2) Sign 1 big name starter - The rotation next year looks to be Sale, Q, Danks and Noesi. Bringing in one big name righty starter would put Q to 3, Noesi to 4 and Danks to 5. We're stuck with Danks contract, we may as well make the best of it 3) Sign a Left Handed Left Fielder - More than likely, Tank will play DH next season with Jordan Danks / Moises Sierra likely to be the back up outfielder, one outfielder should be enough with Eaton and Avi in the outfield already Nopes 1) Don't bring in a proven catcher. Flowers has done the job this year and seems to handle the pitching staff well and with Nieto / Phegley as back up, we aren't too bad going forward. If we are trading pieced away, then I'd rather see us bringing in young talented catchers to come through the system. 2) Don't put Rodon in the rotation. I'd like to see him as either a leftie in the pen or another year in Charlotte before he comes up to give him some more experience. 3) Don't trade away Alexei. His defense has been great this year and with Carlos Sanchez at 2nd base and Marcus Semien as the utility guy, our infield looks and can hit better than when we had Beckham. Plus. I would like to see Micah spend some more time in AAA Sorry but the Sox only have 30-35M to spend which will not be enough to sign a big named starter, sign a lefty bat and bring in a proven closer. All three of those will be very costly.

QUOTE (Eminor3rd @ Sep 23, 2014 -> 10:12 AM) A different take on an offseason thread that I hope will invite some thoughtful responses. The rules: First name three moves the Sox absolutely need to MAKE this offseason, then name three moves the Sox absolutely need to AVOID this offseason. To wit: Three YEPS: 1. Sign Russell Martin at anything up to 4yr/$60m -- He will NOT ever be as good at the plate as he was this year, but that's okay because he was a MONSTER this year and doesn't need to be to make the deal worth it. He has a career high 145 wRC+ this season, but all we need from him is about 100, and his career line is 106. THat would make him an elite defender with a league average bat who also happens to bring Veteran Leadership™ to the table. Even if his bat begins to decline immediately, game-calling and pitch-framing tend to improve with experience, and having that kind of glove back there witha bat that doesn't kill you is worth its weight in blood diamonds. Admittedly, this was a much more attractive option when I first started clamoring for it midseason before the national media caught the scent, and he's going to be expensive as a result, but when you take a look around at the free agent classes of the next couple years and try to find ones that are going to pay dividends both immediately AND going forward, this is one of the few that jump out. And if paying Martin $14m a year is your big money acquisition, you're not really risking much, especially with our current payroll commitments being so low. 2. Trade Alexei Ramirez, probably to the Yankees -- I love Alexei. I really do. I have bragged about Alexei being the most underrated player in the game to all my friends for about four years now. But there are two reasons that it's time to move on: (1) he will be 33 years old, meaning that his defense will most likely decline as soon as next season, meaning that he will NOT be the player he is today when we need him the most a couple years down the line, and (2) we have a glut of MI prospects in the advanced levels of our minors, all of whom need a shot to stick at the majors. It is the position we are best able to fill with AT LEAST a stopgap. The market will be ripe this offseason as several big names will be looking for a SS, most notably the Yankees (who not only want a SS, but also one that will be an immediate contributor but won't require a long-term commitment, which is EXACTLY what Alexei is), who just happen to have a bunch of extra decent catching prospects laying around, which just happens to be exactly what our system needs. Even if none of the guys in the minor can cut it at SS, we have Leury, who can hold the position down admirably on defense until Tim Anderson or whoever is ready. Alexei is great, but he's not likely to be a part of our next contender, so it's time to move him while he has value and we have the in-house candidates to replace him. 3. Acquire TWO corner outfielders -- It is time for Dayan Vicedo to go. I have always, ALWAYS been down on Viciedo and have always been willing to go down in flames if he broke out. Remember when I agreed you guys could stone me if he was good? Well he's not. He sucks. He has to go. "But Eminor, he hit a few homers the other day!" Yeah, look at his line this year: .231/.281/.405 with 21 HR (87 wRC+). "But Eminor, right-handed power is at a premium!" Yeah, but when you do everything else like a minor league utility player (except defense, which you do like Carlos Lee), you do more harm than good. Just for reference, 87 wRC+ is 13% below league average, and is exactly equal to the average MLB shortstop. We should give him to Seattle or something for anything in return. But he should be replaced with TWO OFs, at least one of which needs to be left-handed. What this does is make our team more like Oakland in that it will allow us to play match-ups like crazy. THIS is what the rotating DH should look like: four starting outfielders, and extra starting caliber corner infielder, mixed handedness, use DH to make sure the best/hottest guys are in the lineup every night, maximizing platoon advantage and ensuring good health. Giving Abreu some days off, too. I think we sign one (maybe a mid-tier guy, maybe a reclamation. Probably not Markakis even though he makes sense in every way except price) and trade for another. Another guy like Eaton would be ideal but let's not kid ourselves. If we spend more on the FA, maybe the trade is for the reclamation guy. Dominic Brown? I don't know, but we need two. Three NOPES: 1. Do NOT sign James Shields -- He has been a great pitcher, had a cool career, he's eaten us up, I get it. But he's going to be 33 and is already experiencing the effects of a natural decline. His velocity is down and he's now relying much more on contact than before, which has kept his K/BB rates good, but cannot go on forever. Also, it's risky because you rely more on BABIP luck and good defense to get by. Shileds would be good next year, but already worse than this year, and it'll keep going downhill as his velocity goes. Given what he's going to cost (I'm guessing roughly 5yr/$100m plus a draft pick), we just are not ready to mortgage our future for 2015. It's just the wrong time, both for us and him. 2. Do NOT sign Victor Martinez -- This dude is about to get PAID. He's also really old, really injury prone, and really REALLY unlikely ever to touch what he did this year again. I'm not saying he's going to be useless, but guys at his age are one knee injury from becoming bums (see Carlos Beltran), and even if he stays healthy, you're not going to get that value back to justify the cost of what this season si about to earn him. He may be in line for 3yr/$60m. Also, locking up the DH spot with a one-dimensional player takes away our ability to do my rotating DH/platoon OF thing. This is money that can go toward Russell Martin! 3. Do NOT alter the pitching plan -- It didn't work out this year. With the exception of Noesi, all of our bullpen and rotation upside plays busted. That is NOT likely to happen again. It's a process that has worked wonders for several franchises in our position. We need to do a better job of selecting them, but the plan is sound. Do not let Felipe Paulino cloud your judgement, Hahn. Continue to leverage your pitching development staff, continue to find assets that can be moved if necessary, continue to find assets that don't block anyone, and continue to fish for upside. Agreed with everything except for Martin. If Martin would cost 15M per year then I would have to say no. I would rather stick with Flowers and use spend that 15M per year on a couple of nice relievers for the pen. I guess my thinking is Flowers plus two solid relievers makes the team better than one Martin. I'm not sure who replaces Alexei. Could try to sign Steven Drew on the cheap and use him to bridge the gap to Anderson while Drew uses the Sox to rebuild his value. Drew would give the Sox another lefty bat in the lineup while providing some decent defense. Otherwise I like where you're coming from on this upcoming off season. I love the idea of 4 OF's to rotate with the DH. Should the Sox decide to put Semien at 3rd, Gillaspie could become apart of that 4 man rotation and allow Ventura to use Gillaspie mostly against RHP. Assuming Tank would be traded, there would still be room to bring in a higher salary player via trade to fit into that 4 man OF rotation of Gillaspie, Eaton, Avi and whomever.

QUOTE (hi8is @ Sep 23, 2014 -> 12:29 AM) But according to most of Soxtalk after his first start - he was s***. Yeah, the patience of some Sox fans is a little thin to say the least. QUOTE (hi8is @ Sep 23, 2014 -> 02:08 AM) Johnson is absolutely in the anomaly category. His numbers say a lot but don't tell the whole story. Erik just plain lost his stuff and you don't see that often from a youngster. I questioned him over last winter. I seriously did not see what the hype was about with Johnson. His fastball is straight as an arrow, his curve ball was decent when he didn't hang it and his change was alright. I wasn't surprised one bit that he fell on his face with the Sox but I did not see him falling that hard at Charlotte. QUOTE (Vance Law @ Sep 23, 2014 -> 03:52 AM) I assume he'll start in AAA, where he still has not pitched yet. I can't imagine they'd have him jump Rodon on the depth chart, so I don't think they'll have a slot for him or even that he'd be competing for one. I'll assume we sign (or trade for) one legitimate pitcher who's not a scrapheaper. Danks and Noesi with the final two slots unless they decide to start the season with Rodon. If there was an injury in there and they want to keep Rodon's clock from starting, I could see him getting the shot to fill in. He's prob right there with Carroll for that distinction as of now, but spring training would prob determine that. I'm thinking Rodon stays at Charlotte to start 2014 while the Sox look to trade Danks sometime in June, then call Rodon up. Bassitt's right handed pitching arm is why I'm wondering if he has a shot considering the sox are looking for a right hander in the rotation to go with Noesi. This would move Carroll into the pen where he pitches better anyway and could close up one hole in a pen full of holes. This winter will be interesting to say the least.

Just watched the highlights. Man, Bassitt looked good. Had a bad ass curve ball, a good tight slider and the fastball looked like it had some decent sink. Anyone think he has a chance at making the rotation in 2015? Just asking is all because I really don't know.