BlackSox13

While I don't agree with TUC's perspective on the talent level of the Japanese league, I'm not going to flame the guy over his opinion either. The last few posts are what people referred to in this thread here... http://www.soxtalk.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=90868 Outside of the Japanese talent level, TUC does bring up good points of concern with Tanaka's splitter/forkball, pitch count and projected contract.

QUOTE (The Ultimate Champion @ Dec 30, 2013 -> 11:15 AM) In all fairness, Tanaka spent most of those pitches inside domes at ideal conditions and pitching to a bunch of guys that could never make it out of AA ball in the states. All pitch counts are not equal & the stress level in Japan is vastly below what he'd have to endure in MLB. As far as I know, pitching alone is stressful on the arm. The fact that he throws a splitter should be more concerning than pitch count assuming he pitches appropriately & works off his fastball. My concerns with Tanaka would be the money, the years, and the fact that he's unproven. The insurance factor probably means that a team would be better off having someone like Tanaka hurt & on the DL for the season than making 35 starts with an ERA over 5 while earning a top-3 salary on the team. All good points TUC. Found a very interesting article at Baseball Prospectus talking about the split finger and forkball pitches, both of which Tanaka is said to throw. The article backs up your (TUC) concerns over Tanaka's use of these pitches. For those interested... http://www.baseballprospectus.com/article....articleid=12558

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Dec 28, 2013 -> 12:42 PM) The problem is...replacing Uggla with Beckham is replacing garbage with cheaper garbage. Someone has to have a reason to take on the money. The White Sox would get basically nothing back in either case. I admit I'm throwing s*** against the wall to see what sticks but am looking at it as a change of scenery scenerio from the braves outlook on Beckham. The real problem is the braves finding a suitor for Uggla which I admit is a similar situation to the Sox trying to move Dunn. IF the braves found a team to take Uggla it would open up money to extend guys like Hayward and Freeman despite Beckham being a downgrade from Uggla as you mentioned. As for a trade scenario, I admit this isn't likely but just throwing out there for s***s and giggles. Say the braves send Uggla to the yanks, Beckham to the braves and JR Murphy to the Sox. Again, I admit this isn't likely and like I said am throwing s*** against the wall for the sake of the Sox rumor mill being boring right now. QUOTE (The Ultimate Champion @ Dec 28, 2013 -> 12:46 PM) One word: Walker Braves make perfect sense, nice find Roostifer. Who are we getting back? Hope someone good. Thank you sir. To be honest I'm not sure since moving Uggla would be the equivalent of the Sox moving Dunn. I threw an unlikely scenario out there for the hell of it. Hopefully it can lead to some realistic ideas from other posters while the mill is slow.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Dec 28, 2013 -> 12:18 PM) WAR the last several years: Beckham: 0.6 0.5 0.9 1.0 Uggla: 4.2 2.2 3.4 0.5 Beckham has literally been worse than Uggla every year except last year. They'd obviously swap them straight up if the White Sox took on his contract, but Gordon Beckham doesn't obviously appear to be anything but a downgrade from Dan Uggla. I didnt mean the Sox take on Uggla, he just doesn't fit in with the Sox plans. It could be a 3 team trade where the Sox trade Beckham to Atlanta, Atlanta trades Uggla to a contender and the Sox get??? Just throwing it out there since the Sox rumor mill is incredibly slow right now.

"The Braves, who have lost Brian McCann and Tim Hudson and done little to replace them, but it's not too late for them to recover this offseason, Mike Petriello of ESPN.com writes (Insider-only). They can start by signing young players like Jason Heyward and Freddie Freeman to extensions, Petriello suggests. Another fix might be acquiring a new second baseman to supplant Dan Uggla, and one possibility might be dealing for Howie Kendrick of the Angels, who need young pitching. Here's more from around the Majors." I saw this at MLBTR. Anyone think the Braves would interested in a Georgia native like Beckham? Not sure what the Braves have to offer but it could be a fit.

QUOTE (greg775 @ Dec 27, 2013 -> 10:41 PM) I have one question for you guys who think it's determined the team will stink in 2014 ... why do we have this playoff-ready pitching staff for a team going nowhere? Why didn't we spend some cash like the Yankees to upgrade maybe two more positions go with these dandy trades and win our s*** division right now?? With Leyland gone, the Tigers will be nothing to fear anymore. If this team is going nowhere FOR CERTAIN, then why not shut down Sale until we're ready to contend. Just don't even pitch him. I mean he's developed. Why waste one pitch out of that arm if it's 100 percent certain we're not winning anything next season?? Before you blast me, I think it's a legitimate question. Maybe even leave Danks on the shelf all year, too. And Quintana. He's also been stretched out enough that he's major league ready for contention. I think its due to question marks. We don't know how the youth will respond to a 162 game grind, Dunn is what he is, Danks is still trying to regain his old form, Beckham can't stay healthy long enough to show if he can live up to his expectations and we need production out of the catchers position. Just too many if's, maybe's and hopefully's right now to expect too much. Can't shut Sale or Q down cause its an obvious white flag on the 14 season which would hurt attendance even more than its been hurt already. QUOTE (greg775 @ Dec 27, 2013 -> 10:46 PM) I think it's the same problem as last season. Sox can't dump him cause Jerry doesn't like paying for players who are on other teams. It's almost his unwritten policy. So Dunn is here until the final day of that contract mercilessly runs out. Or a team is willing to pay almost all of that deal and send us a couple low level prospects as well. Jerry isn't eating significant dollars on contracts. Agreed. Best case is hope Dunn hits well enough to trade by the deadline or else we have to suffer to the bitter end. Just doesn't seem to be a market for him at this point.

QUOTE (Andy the Clown @ Dec 26, 2013 -> 08:18 PM) That's his shtick. That and the Yoko Ono avatar. Sorry DA but that s*** is funny. Andy, why you gotta be such a clown?

QUOTE (Marty34 @ Dec 26, 2013 -> 05:21 PM) Even if he went belly up, given the Sox future payroll obligations, I just can't see how Tanaka at even $25M per would be that much worse than the Danks contract. But Danks contract is for five years while its speculated Tanaka could get 6-7 years. Also the extra 10m saved could easily buy this team a good catcher in the near future. 25m per year is a huge risk for guy that's never pitched in the majors.

I have to say that Japanese pitchers have some of the most unique deliveries.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Dec 26, 2013 -> 03:10 PM) But simultaneously, the idea of him winding up similar to Matsuzaka in performance and injuries while getting $50 million more is terrifying. Oh, I couldn't agree more. This is why I'm straddling the fence with aching nuts. I see both sides to this, Im just not sure how much of a risk (financially) I'd be willing to take. If Tanaka is going to get the years and money speculated I'd have to say no thank you and move on.

QUOTE (chisoxfan310 @ Dec 26, 2013 -> 02:06 PM) Well I'd assume all of that stuff would happen while agreeing to the deal before it becomes official. Im on thr fence too though. If they get him, great. If not, then its ok Right, I like the staff as is but adding Tanaka's potential to the rotation is mind boggling to think about.

QUOTE (chisoxfan310 @ Dec 26, 2013 -> 01:49 PM) Not really no. How many mlb teams have their ace out there for even 120 pitches anymore? He wouldn't be handled that was here. I think what Polish is getting at is the wear and tear thats already on the shoulder and elbow from such high pitch counts. The articles raise some genuine causes for concern, especially the money and years speculated for Tanaka's contract. Personally I'm on the fence. Would love to take the chance, just not sure at what cost. If Im spending the coin I'd want an MRI on the shoulder and elbow to make sure all is well.

I just don't see the Sox spending on FA pitchers next year as I doubt it will be necessary. Dunn will be gone so its much more possible the Sox spend money in FA trying to replace him if they can't through a trade somehow.

QUOTE (LittleHurt05 @ Dec 25, 2013 -> 12:08 AM) Cubs fans are adamant that they will sign him and it will be a game changer. The cubs will be outbid by a contender thus setting up cub fans for a heartbreak. This is going to be fun for soxfans.

QUOTE (Stan Bahnsen @ Dec 24, 2013 -> 11:55 PM) Maybe, but what else is he gonna say at that point? I see what you're saying but taking 10m less than the yanks offer does back up his words. Texas does have a better team than the yanks so I can believe him. Just shows the yanks can't buy everyone.

QUOTE (Stan Bahnsen @ Dec 24, 2013 -> 10:28 PM) The endorsement possibilities for Choo as a Yankee would have been far greater in both NY and Korea, vs. his situation in Texas. Boras did nothing positive for his client here. The bloom oughtta be off that rose by now. Hopefully soon. When Choo signed he said he preferred Texas so I doubt he cared about endorsements, can't really fault Boris for Choo's decision.

Haha, the s*** slinging has already begun in the comment section on MLBTR.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Dec 24, 2013 -> 06:18 PM) LOL, that's really what i expect. I can't figure out why that team would send him over for only $20 million unless they're desperate for cash right now. Holy s*** that changed fast! Talk about a classic game of Pong!

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Dec 24, 2013 -> 06:06 PM) Right now it sounds overwhelmingly like he will not be posted unless MLB changes their rules again. Their owner has virtually zero reason to sell this player for $20 million. According to reports he will be posted. QUOTE (Chilihead90 @ Dec 24, 2013 -> 06:06 PM) Yeah, I think our chances of Tanaka are probably much lower than our chances for Abreu were. We had the Cuban connection as well as a lack of teams in need of a 1B. All 30 teams in baseball are in need of a potentially all-star SP. I don't like our chances, and I don't think we want to know what it would cost us to make it happen either. Amen to that! I was thinking Hahn might jump in to drive the price up but I seriously doubt he'll need to for reasons you stated in your post. This is one for us to sit back as innocent bystander's and watch the madness ensue. Grab a beer Sox fans and enjoy! Would love to have Tanaka but not for the speculated cost.

QUOTE (Quinarvy @ Dec 24, 2013 -> 05:44 PM) Q was a non-prospect at that point. He had been made a FA by two orgs. Coming into 2012 he was our #32 ranked prospect and we had the worst farm system in baseball at the time. Q is Kenny and Coops best dumpster find ever. And I'm not ragging on Q, s***, we've nicknamed him after an Aztec deity. I think Surkamp could be another Quintana though, as he has good control of his pitches which helped him amass his gaudy K numbers. That sounds perfect for Coop to work with. Absolutely and I'm sure we all remember how frustrated Cooper was with Santiago's lack of control so Surkamp should be a pleasure for Cooper to work with. Will be interesting to see how Surkamp developes.

If the rumors of the upcoming bidding war on Tanaka are true its a scary thought how much his contract will be. The cubs and yanks are desperate enough to make this laughable for sox fans. Not to mention the Dodgers and Diamondbacks have interest too? Yikes!

I'm in the group of who cares what hand they throw with. After watching Santiago run up high pitch counts and walks I welcome the idea of Surkamp in the rotation provided he earns the spot. IF he can locate his fastball to go with his plus curve and change he might be an upgrade over Santiago, I admit these are IF's but that's what ST is for. Also want to point out that Surkamp is further along than Paulino as far as recovering from injury (more innings pitched in 13). As for Rienzo, just my opinion but I'm not seeing him in the starting rotation, he walks too many batters and just doesn't appear to be all that impressive. I'm guessing the 5th spot in the rotation will be a ST duel between Paulino and Surkamp with the loser going to the pen and probably backing up the winner in his starts since you can't expect a ton of innings from either due to their recovery. Could compliment each other well though.

QUOTE (LittleHurt05 @ Dec 23, 2013 -> 05:19 PM) Mitch Mustain? Dave Mustaine.

Nothing wrong with Hoffman but I'm thinking I still prefer Kolek as far as pitchers go. Assuming Rodon is already off the board when the 3rd pick comes up.

QUOTE (South Side Fireworks Man @ Dec 23, 2013 -> 04:40 PM) ...And he dances on the sand? Naaa, that was his sister Rio.