BigFinn

QUOTE (jasonxctf @ Jan 21, 2015 -> 08:48 PM) Does anyone know... Have the sox ever started a season where their #1, 2 and 3 hitters in the lineup, all hit .300 or greater the year before? Can't seem to correct the topic should be stat heads...? First, at least the topic isn't stat tails. Back to the topic at hand: As far as last year is concerned Baseball-reference.com has determined that the Sox had 115 different batting orders last year (117 if you count pitchers in inter-league games). The most frequently occurring player/position combinations were Adam Eaton leading off (123 time) and Jose Abreu batting 3rd (113 times). Beckham (remember him) batted in the two hole 66 times, Dunn batted clean-up 60 times and Alexei batted in the two-hole 50 times. No other players batted more than 50 times in any slot in the batting order. Just for giggles I looked at Baseball-reference's batting orders page for the 1975 Cincinnati Reds—Sparky Anderson submitted 105 different line-ups, not counting pitchers, over the course of the season. Pete Rose led off in all 162 games; Ken Griffey, Sr. batted in the two-hole 86 times; and Joe Morgan batted third 119 times. I thought that Morgan batted second more frequently, but he only batted there 19 times during the season. In games 1, 2, and 7 of the 1975 series, Sparky sent Rose, Morgan, and Johnny Bench to the plate #1, #2, #3. But in games 3, 4, 5, and 6, Sparky started off the line-up with Rose, Griffey, and Morgan. Anyway, getting back to the Sox, in 2013, the most frequent #1, #2, and #3 hitters were Alejandro DeAza, Alexei Ramirez, and Alex Rios. 2012 DeAza (127) Youkilis (75) Dunn (145): DeAza hit .329 for the Sox in 54 games in 2011 2011 Juan Pierre (154) Alexei Ramirez (100) Paul Konerko (64): Paulie batted .312 in 2010 2010 Pierre (156) Omar Vizquel (74) Alex Rios (112): Juan Pierre batted .308 for the Dodgers in 2009 2009 Scott Podsednik (119) Ramirez (63) Jermaine Dye (83): Alexei hit .290 and JD hit .292 in 2008, close but no cigar 2008 Orlando Cabrera (128) AJ Pierzynski (83) Carlos Quentin (93): Cabrera hit .301 for the Angels in 2007 2007 Jerry Owens (83) Tadahito Iguchi (57) Jim Thome (120) 2006 Scott Podsednik (120) Tadahito Iguchi (133) Jim Thome (112): only 87 different batting orders 2005 Scott Podsednik (124) Tadahito Iguchi (129) Carl Everett (82): Iguchi batted .333 for the Fukuoka Daiei Hawks That takes us to the glorious World Series. It seems like we have been lucky to have one .300 hitter entering the #1, #2, or #3 slots in the batting order in the following season. So, your point that Adam Eaton (.300), Melky Cabrera (.302), Jose Abreu (.317) batting 1-2-3 is a pretty singular occurrence seems valid. And AWESOME. One more: 1972 Pat Kelly (95) Mike Andrews (77) Dick Allen (123): Kelly batted .291 for the Sox, Andrews batted .282 for the Sox, and Dick Allen batted .295 for the Dodgers - all in 1971. Kelly and Andrews reverted to the mean, but Dick Allen almost carried the Sox to the AL West title single-handedly.

QUOTE (LDF @ Jan 20, 2015 -> 04:22 PM) i really don't know anything about him. i see he has a little power there. how is his D??? StatCorner shows his pitch framing ability to be above average. He ranked 21st overall in 2012, 26th in 2013, and 19th in 2014—pretty consistent and pretty good. Baseball Prospectus rates him about the same: 23rd in 2012, 18th in 2013, 17th in 2014. That's about 20th out of about 120 overall. From Baseball-reference.com: He's caught 33 would-be base stealers in 146 attempts: 22.6%—not so good. That stat is hard to analyze because the pitchers have a lot to do with stolen bases, too. He's a switch swinger. Calling him a hitter might be a tad optimistic. He stirkes out about 25% of the time. If Corporan became the White Sox backup catcher, it wouldn't be the worst signing in the world. On a side note, I just don't get the Astros. They just picked the Cub's pocket, sending a decent lead-off hitter (a CF who's better off playing in LF) to get a stop-gap 3B in Valbuena and a lottery ticket in Dan Straily. Then to fill the gap in CF, they picked up a real CF in Colby Rasmus. Rasmus might not have the on-base skills of Fowler, but he is certain to hit more homers in the Astro's juice box. Meanwhile, they screwed the pooch on this past draft. Not signing Brady Aiken in the first round cost them their 5th round pick, Jacob Nix, and their 21st round pick Mac Marshall, highly regarded high-school pitchers. The outline of the story is in SI. We, as Sox fans, like to chastise Jerry Reinsdorf for the draft mistakes (Lance Broadway, Kyle McCulloch, Jared Mitchell, et.al.), the international disaster (Doug Wilder), and the "excess of loyalty" shown to franchise favorites (Ozzie, Robin, Paulie, etc.). But the White Sox, to my knowledge, have never messed with three kids lives like the Astros did as a result of their 2014 draft.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Jan 14, 2015 -> 04:24 PM) I seem to remember another pitch framing metric putting Flowers at the middle of the pack, no? Here's' the website: Statcorner.com Tyler Flowers is 24th from rock bottom, or 90th from the top depending on how you look at it.

QUOTE (SoxPride18 @ Jan 12, 2015 -> 10:22 PM) What's the Sox payroll at now that Viciedo's 4.4 million is set now? From baseball-reference.com, the Sox obligations are: $95.5 Million for players under contract (Jose Abreu, John Danks, David Robertson, Melky Cabrera, Alexei Ramirez, Chris Sale, Jose Quintana, Adam LaRoche, Zach Duke, Dayan Viciedo, Emilio Bonifacio, Felipe Paulino, and Jeff Keppinger) $15.4 Million estimated for 5 arbitration cases (Jeff Samardzija, Tyler Flowers, Hector Noesi, Nate Jones, and Javy Guerra) $6 Million estimated for players to fill out the 25-man roster About $117 Million total for the whole roster.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Dec 19, 2014 -> 02:31 PM) Let's get grindy... right guys? MLB Transactionist ‏@MLBTransactions 10m10 minutes ago Chicago, IL OAKLAND ATHLETICS: Released infielder Nick Punto. http://j.mp/1zG3Nnc Has it been ten years since Ozzie called Nick Punto and the Twins "pirañas?" Geez, I'm getting old. Correct that, I'm old. Period.

Jay Jaffe of SI.com lists Tim Raines as the 8th best left-fielder in the history of baseball. The only two players ahead of him on the list who are not yet in the Hall of Fame are Barry Bonds and Pete Rose. Raines compares favorably with Rose on the rate stats: Pete Rose: .303/.375/.409 Tim Raines: .294/.385/.425 Rose might have had more hits, but Raines had the better OBP and hit for more pop. Combine that with the superior base-stealing skill set, and if I had to pick a starting left-fielder for my team, I'd pick Raines over Rose any day of the week. Tim Raines should have been in the Hall of Fame long ago. He'll make it with the 2016 or 2017 class.

Thank you all for providing a forum for what Irv Kupcinet used to call "the lively art of conversation" – especially about all things White Sox.

QUOTE (shysocks @ Jan 5, 2015 -> 12:29 PM) I don't get that feeling at all. Think the Sox have Bonifcatio pegged as the 10th man and they'll give Sanchez his shot. Just that platoon numbers from year-to-year are pretty small samples. You're talking no more than 136 PA's against lefties in any of those three seasons. Look at the career numbers (.291/.340/.380/.720) and it's clear he's capable enough. To quote Smokey Robinson, "I second that emotion." In addition to platooning with Gillaspie, Bonifacio will see playing time late in games when the Sox are trying to protect a lead in the late innings: bring Bonifacio to play at 3B, and move Gillaspie across the diamond to spell Jose Abreu at 1B. The first time Bonifacio strikes out with the bases loaded, I will personally give myself 40 lashes with a wet noodle. Rick Hahn gets no quarrel about this signing from me. Strengthen the rotation: check. Strengthen the bullpen: check. Strengthen the bench: check. Next up, work on trading Dayan Viciedo. Tampa Bay, Seattle, Yankees – there are still some teams that could use Viciedo.

QUOTE (LDF @ Jan 4, 2015 -> 10:37 AM) totally unrelated to all who posted here. i really find that all have said that Hahn and the sox have done a wonderful job this offseason. i just want to continue to say that so no one thinks otherwise. Ditto. Given where this club was 2 years ago, Hahn has done a fantastic job. We have 3 of the top 15 pitchers in baseball heading the top of our rotation, a pitcher in Danks who can surprise next year as he continues to come back from major surgery, and several pitchers in the pipeline who can provide quality innings next year. The bullpen needed reworking, and Hahn found two lefties in Duke and Jennings and a closer in Robertson. There are some more young guys, Petricka and Webb to name but two, who can also help in the near future. Since Victor Martinez went back to Detroit, Hahn signed a good alternative LH bat in Adam Laroche. He also found Melky Cabrera to shore up the outfield, at least offensively. The top of the lineup looks pretty good: CF Adam Eaton LF Melky Cabrera 1B Jose Abreu DH Adam Laroche RF Avisail Garcia SS Alexei Ramirez Hahn still needs a RH platoon partner for Conor Gillaspie, and he needs to figure out how to trade Dayan Viciedo. The platoon partner could be Matt Davidson. I can also see the point behind leaving 2B open for Carlos Sanchez or Micah Johnson: youth must be served. The one player I would have liked to see us get was David Ross. He has been a defensive stalwart as a backup catcher, and he might have helped Tyler Flowers' development. That said, I don't think I could have improved upon the job that Rick Hahn has done, and I'd be hard pressed to point at a GM in the game right now who would.

QUOTE (Douglas Rome @ Jan 2, 2015 -> 04:22 AM) not a troll, my real name is Douglas Rome and I do live in Elburn and I am 68yrs old. I'm in the book, look me up. thanks, douglas Welcome to the board. I'm new here myself. I'm a long time reader but recent poster because there hasn't been much to post about in recent years – at least not much good to post about. It's a lot more fun to speculate about how the White Sox are going to get better in the coming weeks. As far as further moves, if a trade for Zobrist is too expensive, maybe Adam Rosales could provide a "veteran presence" while Carlos Sanchez or Micah Johnson settles in at 2B. Rosales could play late innings at 3B while Conor Gillaspie shifts across the diamond to spell Jose Abreu at 1B. Emilio Bonifacio has been mentioned several times, and he could also fill that need.

QUOTE (elrockinMT @ Dec 22, 2014 -> 05:01 PM) I think the positive we should be looking at is th fact Garcia came back from a bad injury and played some last year but wasn't at his best and needed more at bats. He is getting that in winter ball and building up strength, etc. His performance is good to see and hopefully carries over to the 2015 season +1 Coming back from the injury last year shows a great work ethic and real leadership. It reminds me of how Robin Ventura came back after he ripped up his knee during spring training in 1997 before the dreaded white flag trade. I would imagine that RV appreciated Garcia's effort more than most managers.

If buzz cuts and clean shaven faces are the keys to winning baseball, then why did the SF Giants, a team full of ZZ Top impersonators, win the World Series? Just asking.

QUOTE (LDF @ Dec 27, 2014 -> 02:05 PM) nice post, a lot of thought went into it. however .... ~~ i wish posters quit bringing up what will not happen. Longoria ship has sailed. Tpa will not trade him. ~~ i mention Ben Zob b/c Tpa and according to their xmas rpt, will look into moving him i figure why not, what will be the cost. now when i read this morning or SFO 2b getting hurt, i also wonder out loud if SFO will go after him. then the rumor page starting posting that SFO may be kicking the tires on Ben Zob as well. ~~ there is no panicking going on, the supply and demand will dictate what teams will be willing to send in prospects / players and cash. The "Panik" is Joe Panik, current 2B for the Giants. He hit .305/.343/.368 in Scutaro's stead. I don't think Brian Sabean is going to pay an arm and a leg to get Zobrist when he already has a ML 2B in Joe Panik. I don't think Zobrist has played any 3B during his career, so I don't think Sabean is looking for Zobrist to spell McGehee at 3B. The rumor mill about Sabean kicking the tires on Zobrist is just that: rumors. I've seen posts in this thread that Zobrist is going to cost the White Sox Tim Anderson or Frankie Montas. That's not happening, either. I've also heard rumors that the Mets are interested in Zobrist. He won't cost the Mets pitching prospect Noah Snydergaard or catching prospect Kevin Plawecki. Or at the least, the Mets would be stupid to pay such a high price for Zobrist. It seems like some teams would like to explore the possibility of having Evan Longoria play 3B (the Giants fit that description to a T), and Tampa Bay would like to play a bait and switch game, "We have this lightly used Ben Zobrist, who's just as good as Evan Longoria, and we won't charge you all that much." The difference between Longoria and Zobrist is 4 years of playing time. Longoria is entering his age 30 season; Zobrist, his age 34 season. It's like the difference between paying $25 grand for a new car or $22 grand for a used car that's 4 years old. With my luck, I'd end up with the used car that needs an exhaust system overhaul 3 months past the warranty expiration date. I get that fixed and the starter goes. And don't get me started on the fuel injector! That's what Zobrist is—a nice player who's career is going to wind down real soon. Longoria still has some good years left, and if Tampa Bay is stripping down the team for a rebuild, Longoria should be the centerpiece of any trade to bring prospects into their system. Under "things I found out looking up other things": I wanted to see the state of the Giants minor league system compared to the White Sox system to see which ball club could offer more for Longoria (in case that ship may yet sail), and I found this web gem! According to Baseball Prospectus, the Sox are just ahead of the Giants (21 vs. 22) with respect to their talent pool in the minor leagues, as of 2014. Then the author, Jason Parks, rates the systems as trending up, trending down, or steady. Twenty teams are trending up, six are trending down, and the rest are steady as she goes. This reminds me of Lake Woebegon, "where all the women are strong, all the men are good-looking, and all the children are above average." I can't wait to see where the Sox rank this season, and whether we're still trending up!

QUOTE (LDF @ Dec 27, 2014 -> 05:40 AM) i was reading and i saw that the Giants 2B Scutaro may have a career ending injury. now i can see a team other than the Sox going after Ben Zobrist, they have the trade chips to use. how bout Bonifacio, this really change what we as fans will be a nice addition to the team. First, I hope for all the best for Marco Scutaro. He seems like a good man. He has always been a tough competitor on the field, and that attitude will help in after his surgery. That said, Brian Sabean, the Giants GM, is not going to "Panik" over losing Marco Scutaro. Their big loss this off-season was Pablo Sandoval. They are hoping that Casey McGehee will fill in at 3B, but they may be looking for a LH bat to take some at-bats when McGehee would be overmatched by a tough RH pitcher. Sabean is the last GM to overpay for a player, let alone a player on the cusp of being over-the-hill like Ben Zobrist. Zobrist would be useful for the Giants (or the White Sox, or any of the other MLB teams), but he isn't worth sending Tampa Bay any top prospects. I think Longoria still has some all-star caliber seasons left, and I would be willing to sacrifice a little of the White Sox future to bring him on board. But if somebody told me that Longoria was going to start a slow but steady decline upon entering his age 30 season, I be hard pressed to argue the point. By a little, I mentioned that a package for Longoria could start with Trey Michalczewski, but now, I'm not so sure. Michalczewski just finished his age 19 season at High-A Winston-Salem. If he spends half a season at Winston-Salem and half a season at Birmingham, he might be ready for a September call up at age 20 and a full-time MLB job at age 21. Do you send a ballplayer who could become the next Robin Ventura (Michalczewski) to Tampa Bay to get the back half of Buddy Bell's career (Longoria) complete with the cumulative nicks and dings that come with age? That's why Rick Hahn gets paid the big bucks! Did you know that Bonifacio's most similar player through his age 29 season was Alan Bannister? Alan Bannister of the 40 errors for the South Side Hit Men of 1977! That brings back memories! I know — Bonifacio is a much better fielder, the similarity scores are for offensive stats only. But it was funny to see, nonetheless.

QUOTE (witesoxfan @ Dec 26, 2014 -> 12:18 PM) I don't know that this is the best way to go about valuing a player. A few comparables for Chris Sale at this point are Mark Prior, Jaime Garcia, and Stephen Strasburg, along with a few guys who played before the 50s and a couple of whom were also born in the 19th century. All of those guys would have had highly variable values at each point of their careers. Right now, Ben Zobrist is a guy who plays good defense at a lot of positions, swings a good stick, hits for a bit of power, draws a lot of walks, doesn't strike out a ton, and helps you on the base paths. He's a very good player who does not put up very flashy numbers. All of the teams are aware of this. I will stand by saying that the bare minimum he will cost will be Tim Anderson and Frank Montas, and that's not something the Sox can afford at this point. Zobrist is 34 years old. He is a known quantity. He may have two or three above average years left, but he probably doesn't. I don't know if it's 1 chance in 10 (Bill Mueller), 2 in 10, 3 in 10, but I would peg his having two good years out of the next three as being less than 50/50. I hope he proves me wrong. Chris Sale's compatibles will be all over the place for now. He is a unique talent—the best young pitcher that I have ever seen, going back to Jason Bere, Alex Fernandez, Jack McDowell, LaMarr Hoyt, Rich Dotson, Britt Burns, Joel Horlen, Gary Peters, and Tommy John. Looking at Chris Sale's top 10 most similar pitchers: Stephen Strasburg—He could be a good pitcher IF the Nationals don't blow out his arm. Fergie Jenkins—A helluva pitcher. Hall of Famer. Sinker, Slider, decent change. Sale has better stuff than Jenkins, but Jenkins incredibly durable. Pete Alexander—Another Hall of Famer, Alexander may have been the best pitcher all-time if not for his undiagnosed bi-polar disorder. Bill Singer—He may have been the #3 man on the 1960's Dodgers rotation that included Don Drysdale, Claude Osteen, and Don Sutton. Ridden hard, put away wet. Art Nehf—He pitched for the last great NY Giants team of John McGraw. Andy Messersmith—Another pitcher who started out great, was ridden hard, and put away wet. The first MLB free agent. Jim Bouton—He got off to a great start for his career, then he got a little drink, then he became a best-selling author. Lefty Williams—Good start to his career, then he became a ring-leader of the Black Sox. Herb Score—Fantastic start to his career, then he got hit by a line drive. One of the subjects in Frank Gifford's book Courage. Tim Lincecum—The definition of ridden hard and put away wet. Chris Sale has pitched long enough that even biased observers can watch him pitch and see his quality. None of the 10 most similar pitchers to Chris Sale are bad pitchers: Fergie Jenkins was pretty much aiming for Cooperstown right from the start, so was Pete Alexander. Strasburg and Lincecum can still make it there. Singer, Messersmith, Bouton, Williams, and Score had Cooperstown starts to their respective careers, but got derailed for a variety of reasons. Only Art Nehf can be seen as less than great over the course of his career, and he was the ace on two world series champs: 1921 & 1922. Not bad company to keep. The exciting thing to note about Chris Sale is that he is still developing. He is still getting better. That's why the Sox need to surround him with as good a team as they can. It would be a shame to see Chris develop into the kind of pitcher that Ferguson Jenkins became, only to have him suffer the same fate: toiling for a team that came close, but never made it to the world series. That's why getting an Evan Longoria or a Ben Zobrist would be (dare I use the word again) exciting. They both have post-season experience, and either one of them may be available "if the price is right." It doesn't hurt anybody if Rick Hahn calls TB about Longoria or Zobrist. If the price for Zobrist includes Anderson or Montas, Hahn can hang up. If the price for Longoria includes one of Anderson or Montas along with three other prospects not named Rodon, Hahn should jump at the chance.

'Twas the day after Christmas, with nothing to do, so I looked up Ben Zobrist (his stats) woo hoo? Jay Jaffe lists Zobrist as the 34th best 2B of all time! I knew he was good but,34th all-time?! Here is a list of the 10 most similar players according to Baseball-reference.com: Aaron Boone—juicer Dave Hollins—at age 29, he was traded from Philadelphia to Boston for OF Mark Whiten at age at age 30 he was traded from Minnesota to Seattle for a pre-juicing David Ortiz Corey Koskie—traded from Toronto to Milwaukee for RP Brian Wolfe Hector Lopez—traded from the KC Athletics to the Yankees as part of the deal that also sent Ralph Terry to the Yankees for Johnny Kucks, Jerry Lumpe, and Tom Sturdivant. The KC Athletics were the minor league feeder for the late fifties, early sixties Yankees. They also plucked Roger Maris in another deal (steal) from KC. Don Hoak—Hoak was involved in three separate deals that included multiple players, the most famous of whom were Smokey Burgess (former White Sox pinch-hitter), Harvey Haddix (of the 12-inning, spoiled perfect game), and Frank Thomas (the “other” Frank Thomas, not our Hall of Famer, the Big Hurt). Hoak was at 3B when Dick Allen came up with the 1964 Phillies. Hoak played 6 games that year and never played in MLB after that. The way Allen played in ’64, Hoak was lucky to play in those six games! Scott Spezio—Spezio was never involved in any trades. His Dad, Ed, played 3B for the Sox when Beltin’ Bill Melton was sidelined with back issues in 1972. Bill Mueller—Mueller was involved in two trades: one for RP Tim Worrell, one for minor league pitcher Jeff Verplancke. Milton Bradley—now we’re veering away from truly similar players to Ben Zobrist. Bradley was an outfielder who was frequently traded just to change the mix in the clubhouse. Joe Randa—At age 35, (the point of this exercise), was traded from Cincinnati to the Padres for a couple of pitching prospects, Travis Chick and Justin Germano. Germano had a 9-year career as a spot starter and a middle reliever. Travis Chick never cracked his way into the big leagues. I think that Randa has been a hitting coach in recent days. Bernard Gilkey—Gilkey was a part of a couple of multi-player deals, one of which include one-time Sox catcher Jorge Fabregas. If the Sox want Ben Zobrist, he shouldn't cost that much - a couple of low-level lottery picks, a decent pitching prospect, or a relief pitcher off the 40-man roster. But buyer beware: Koskie and Bradley were done after their age-33 seasons. Hollins, Spezio, Gilkey, and Randa were part-time players by age 34. Only Hoak, Lopez, and Mueller were still playing more-or-less full time into their mid-thirties. And only Bill Mueller played effectively into his mid-thirties.

Just reviewing Evan Longoria's stats at baseball-reference dot com, and Jay Jaffe rates Longoria as the 30th best third basemen all-time. Of the 10 most similar ballplayers to Longoria, only one is a hall-of-famer: Mike Schmidt. Number ten on the list was a pretty good player on the South Side: Robin Ventura. Not bad company to keep. If Longoria can play at an all-star clip (WAR > 5) for the next 3 to 5 years, you have to start thinking about him as hall-of-fame material, don't you? I seriously doubt that the Sox will find him underneath the Christmas tree, but there's no harm in dreaming!

Carlos Rodon's college stats can be found at the Baseball Cube (dot com). In his freshman year Rodon pitch 114 2/3 innings; his sophomore year, 132 1/3 innings; last year combined, 123 1/3. The White Sox probably want to kick that figure up to around 170 innings next year, and 200 innings for 2016. The trick is to save some bullets next year for the post season (assuming the Sox are playing in October!). I think that the White Sox don't want to screw up Rodon's season next year by shutting him down in September (see Nationals, Washington and Strasburg, Stephen to see how that worked out). I like the idea of restricting Rodon's innings in April, May, and June this upcoming season.

Let's take a deep breath here. First, I'm envious that the Cubs finally have a parade of young talent coming through their minor league system. Most of the players mentioned are no longer lottery tickets. They are all going to be at contributors at the major league level. Maybe one or two of them won't pan out because of injuries, but most of them are poised to succeed at the major league level. There is no need for Theo Epstein or Jed Hoyer to start trading their version of "The Kids Can Play" just to get the back half of Evan Longoria's career. The guys they would be trading are likely to have upsides better than Longoria's age 30 year and beyond. Second, I hope the Cubs do well. I'm the White Sox sheep in a Cubs family. My uncle became a Cub fan in the '20s in Wisconsin, moved to Wrigleyville as a young man, raised his family there, lived a long and happy life, rejoiced at the graduation of his son and grandchildren when they graduated from college, lived long enough to see a ground ball scoot under Leon Durhame's glove, died in 1986 at the age of 69, and NEVER once in his lifetime did he see his beloved Cubs win a world series. The city of Chicago could use some optimism from Wrigley Field. When I'm feeling mopey, I can just pop in a DVD of one of the games from our glorious 2005 victory, and soon my sad day becomes happy! I hope Cub fans get that chance. Once. Just once. Only once. But once. Third, Theo and Jed are going to get the Cubs to the brink of the World Series by hook or by crook. They have positional players developing, and soon they will be coming out of the proverbial ying-yang. To win, the Cubs need starting pitchers. That part of the Cub pipeline is DRY. They might be able to get another decent pitcher — Shields or Sherzer — this year via free agency. If not this year, they will try to get Jordan Zimmerman or Johnny Cueto or David Price (or someone else) via free agency next year. If the Cubs are going to trade one or two of their future positional players, it'll be for starting pitchers, and only if they can't get a strong rotation through free agency. Finally, this thread has veered from SOXTALK to Cubs talk. If and when the Cubs get to the World Series, I'll still be root-root-rooting for the White Sox. Now if the Sox can find a way to bring Evan Longoria to the South Side, I'm all for it. Our best 3B prospect — Trey Michalczewski — just finished his first full season in professional ball with a cup of coffee (84 plate appearances) at high-A Winston-Salem. Maybe he spends half a season at Winston-Salem, matriculates for half a season at Birmingham, and arrives in Chicago next September with fire in his eyes, Thor's lightning in his bat, and a Dyson vacuum cleaner for a glove. I'm not betting on it. Over his best stretch of time (his cup of coffee in Winston-Salem) he struck out 21 times in 84 trips to the plate. That's 25%. For his entire career, Michalczewski has struck out 217 times in 699 plate appearances, or 31%. And Trey Michalczewski is our best third base prospect. Our farm system is getting better, but it still isn't great. If the White Sox were to trade for Evan Longoria, he won't be blocking Michalczewski, let alone the parade of infield talent similar to what the Cubs have steaming up their pipeline. By the time Michalczewski is ready to play at the major league level, Longoria will have moved to 1B or DH.

QUOTE (StrangeSox @ Dec 18, 2014 -> 02:19 PM) keep reading this thread title as Eva Longoria If we get this thread up to 10 pages, does Eva Longoria start showing up at the cell?

QUOTE (Chilihead90 @ Dec 19, 2014 -> 04:23 PM) I don't see how the Cubs don't go get Longoria. Not only do the Cubs have Bryant coming up, but one of Castro, Baez, or Russell may end up manning their hot corner (my money is on Castro with Russell at short and Baez at 2B). If the Sox trade for Longoria, then they might as well throw in Michalczewski into the trade mix because Longoria is your 3B for until at least 2022. Michalczewski, Gillaspie, and a couple of arms might get their attention.

QUOTE (ptatc @ Dec 18, 2014 -> 03:59 PM) Defense? Stat Corner has a list of catchers ranked according to their ability to frame pitches. In limited time last year, Kottaras was in the middle of the pack with respect to runs saved: -0.1 for his time in Toronto and -0.3 for his time in St. Louis. When Kottaras was catching for the Brew crew, the principal catcher, Jonathan Lucroy was (and still is) consistently among the leaders in runs saved over the course of the season. During that same time, Kottaras was usually in the bottom of the list. Since Lucroy and Kottaras were catching the same staff, the discrepancy has to be in Kottaras' inability to stay still behind the dish. Since Kottaras is signing a minor league deal, it doesn't cost anything to find out if he is a defensive liability going forward.

QUOTE (chitownsportsfan @ Dec 13, 2014 -> 08:56 PM) I've been looking at Ethier -- was he injured last year or something because his batted ball data is a mess. 51% GBs and 5.6% HR per FB on the odd chance he didn't kill a worm? He just screams "old" IMO. Only .7 fWAR last year and his wRC+ sunk to just 98. He's basically a good player that is now old. Will he bounce back into an average player? I have no idea but Melky costs only money. If the Dodgers want to trade him for a bag of balls and include cash then OK, let's deal, but paying anything of actual value (aka any prospect in the top 20) seems a huge overpay. His contract is f***ing awful. Through '17 at an AAV of 17 million with a vesting option for '18 if he hits 550 PA. No, f*** it, god no. Not unless the Dodgers sent over 40 million, and usually the commish doesn't look too kindly on those deals. Looking over the possible outfielders, I'm reminded of 1967 when the Sox picked up Rocky Colavito for a song. Who knew that you would have rather had the song! Colavito's slash line for the Sox in 1967:.221/.306/.300—the definition of "Diddley Squat." Ethier, Crawford, Shane Victorino, Melky, Aoki—the more I look at the lot of them, the more I see Rocky Colavito. Sheesh. I could see the Sox going after Chase Headley. He would represent a defensive upgrade at 3rd base. When Adam LaRoche's contract is up, Headley could swing over to 1b-DH and make room for Trey Michalczewski. If the Sox do trade Dayan Viciedo, then maybe Matt Davidson could play left field. I saw Carlos Lee's first game in left field. I saw Carlton Fisk play left field. Davidson can't be any worse, could he? Or could Conor Gillaspie could play left?

QUOTE (Lillian @ Dec 13, 2014 -> 05:34 PM) Rosenthal, and a couple of Dodger beat writers are confident that Friedman still wants to move Ethier. Moreover, Ethier himself wants to be traded. The money is obviously the big obstacle. L. A. is reportedly interested in another arm for the rotation, even after acquiring McCarthy: "They need one more back-end starting pitcher, as talks for Cole Hamels have cooled and the Dodgers are not targeting elite free agents Max Scherzer or James Shields. They still want to move outfielder Andre Ethier." By Ken Gurnick / MLB.com | December 11, 2014 Many of us have speculated about a Danks for Ethier trade. Maybe that is still a possibility. If that happens, many of us have argued that the Sox would need to have a couple of RH hitters on the bench, for days that Gillaspie, Ethier and or LaRoche could use a break from hitting vs. LH pitching. Viciedo could help there, although he really hasn't hit lefties like he did when he first broke in. Nevertheless, his biggest weakness seems to be those low and away breaking balls from RH pitchers. Facing southpaws helps mitigate that flaw. We can only hope that he finally matures, and begins to figure it out. My biggest concern with Dayan is that he swings so hard, and so violently, that you have to wonder if he can ever be successful with that approach. The other question that such a trade raises is, who is the other bottom of the rotation starter? Noesi is ok as a 5TH, and maybe Montas will be called upon until Rodon is ready. Or, perhaps Rodon joins the rotation, right out of Spring Training. I don't see how he could be counted upon to give them 30 starts in his first year, but maybe splitting the starts with Montas would work. After all, he couldn't be expected to provide 30 starts either. I still dream of signing Scherzer. I wouldn't say no to a trade for Andre Ethier: say the Danks brothers for Ethier and Dodgers AAA pitching prospect Zach Lee. He had a 5.38 era, but he was pitching in Albuquerque.

QUOTE (chitownsportsfan @ Dec 13, 2014 -> 04:57 PM) Also, you know the 2005 team had a lot of "league average ballplayers", right? You need some to go along with the stars. What the Sox currently have is a replacement level LF. An average LF would be a huge upgrade. Well said. Cabrera would be an improvement both offensively and defensively. Aoki would also be an improvement. Colby Rasmus would be an improvement defensively, but he comes with a boatload of baggage. Andre Ethier and Carl Crawford have huge contracts and declining skills. We might be looking for someone with a year to go before free-agency while we wait for Courtney Hawkins, Trayce Thompson, or Matt Davidson to step up. Thinking about the possibilities makes my head spin.