steveno89

QUOTE (Enscheff @ Jul 12, 2017 -> 04:56 PM) I agree, that is a reasonable package. And that's precisely why nobody wants to see this deal go down. The Braves have HUGE organizational holes at 3B, 2B and corner OF. Albies is obviously slotted to fill 2B next year. Acuna replaces Markakis in 2019. Maitan is destined for 3B once he outgrows SS, and should be ready once whichever stopgap the Braves get at 3B this offseason leaves town. These 3 position prospects are instrumental for the Braves success in 2018 and beyond. The Braves simply aren't good enough NOW to trade future value at positions of extreme need for a "win now" pitcher like Q. Hopefully the Braves FO is smart enough to realize that, but their various "win now" moves during the course of the rebuild doesn't leave me hopeful. Braves still have enough depth in their system to overcome dealing Albies + Gohara + Pache + lotto ticket Demeritte can cover 2B and Riley can cover 3B. You still have plenty of arms and Acuna/Maitan in the system.

QUOTE (IowaSoxFan @ Jul 12, 2017 -> 04:54 PM) I think the Sox can pull two org top 10's plus two more prospects, but those prospects will depend on how good the first two are. I can see them taking a flier on an injured SP given they scouted each during the draft process last year. Yankees - Rutherford, Acevedo, Jorge Guzman, Thairo Estrada Rockies - Pint, McMahon, Pedro Gonzalez, Mike Nikorak* Braves - Maitan, Fried, Pache, Braxton Davidson Brewers - Hader, Ray, Medeiros, Nathan Kirby* Dodgers - Buehler, Yusniel Diaz, Ronny Brito, Oneil Cruz I see where you are coming from, but if the asking price was that low the whole league should be in on Quintana. You don't lower your ask from Tucker + Martes + Musgrove to Tucker + Martes or Torres + Frazier to "A team's second or third best prospect, another top 10 organizational prospect, plus two lower level prospects"

QUOTE (Enscheff @ Jul 12, 2017 -> 04:41 PM) Braves fan here checking in to see perspectives from the other side of this madness. Knowledgeable Braves fans over at ChopCountry.com seem to realize Q's surplus value is in the $70M+ range, plus whatever contender's premium the acquiring team is willing to pay. Based on the consensus mid-season rankings and this surplus valuation of top prospects:http://www.thepointofpittsburgh.com/mlb-pr...pdated-edition/ I would currently value the Braves top handful of guys as: Acuna - $70M Albies - $55M Allard/Soroka/Wright - $35M Maitan - $25M Anderson - $20M Gohara - $15M Nobody with half a clue wants to see the Braves give up any of the top position prospects, and I personally think the Braves value Wright above all the other pitchers. That leaves a package centered around Allard and/or Soroka. Each of them only represents about half of Q's surplus value, so there would have to be (several) significant pieces added. The biggest issue most knowledgeable Braves fans have with a possible Q acquisition is the timing. We all saw how dumb it was for Coppy to hold onto Teheran through the rebuild while his most valuable years were wasted on a losing team, and we don't want to see the Braves pay a premium for Q now in a non-competitive season. Losing teams simply should not be making "win now" moves. If the Braves are going to cash in prospect chips for a SP, I would prefer to see them wait until next trade deadline (if they are competitive), and go for Archer or whichever other TOR is available. If I were a Sox fan, I would NOT be happy with a Q return that consists of mainly pitching, but that's likely what you will see form the Braves. Personally, I think Hahn is using the Braves as leverage to get the Yanks or Astros to cough up an elite position prospect. Sox are specifically looking for bats in the return for Quintana. I do not see a Braves deal getting done without one of Acuna/Albies/Maitan coming to the Sox as part of a package. Something along the lines of Albies + Gohara + Pache + lotto ticket is a framework that could work

QUOTE (Eminor3rd @ Jul 12, 2017 -> 04:31 PM) I'm with you -- Acuna is the best prosepct in that system and the Braves know it. I don't think they'd give Acuna straight up for Quintana. I get it's the day after the allstar game and most beat guys/writers are traveling or off, but there has not been a single shred of information about this. Just seems odd.

QUOTE (whitesoxwinner @ Jul 12, 2017 -> 04:21 PM) Yankees package is light Would take Brewers Rockies in a heartbeat Braves would also take in a heartbeat Astros is ok Yankees package is far from light. BA has Frazier @ 49, Adams @ 52 and Florial @ 71 as recently as 5 days ago

QUOTE (ChiSox59 @ Jul 12, 2017 -> 04:11 PM) What don't you understand? If Rabbit thinks all of those packages would be unacceptable to the other team, that is a bit disconcerting. Frazier, Andujar and Fowler is about the minimum I would take. Braves package is obviously nice, but I'd prefer more than just Acuna on the offensive side. Brinson + Dubon + Phillips seems light. I'd much prefer Diaz to Dubon. Rodgers + McMahon package seems like a good starting point. Maybe add a lower level bat instead of Lambert. Just seems if Rabbit thinks those packages are far too much that the Yanks, Braves, Brewers and Rockies won't reject the outright, we're all going to be very very very disappointed. Frazier + Adams + Florial I would do Brinson + Ortiz + Phillips I would do Rodgers + McMahon + Almonte back I would do Albies + Gohara + Pache I would do Tucker + Whitley/Perez + solid third piece I would do

QUOTE (whitesoxwinner @ Jul 12, 2017 -> 04:03 PM) So I'm guessing that quintana's value has somewhat diminished? I'll withhold judgement on the return until after a deal gets made. Until that point I'll continue to keep hopes up for a strong return. I just hope in 5 years we do not look back at the result Sale, Eaton and Quintana deals and say "WTF?!"

QUOTE (fathom @ Jul 12, 2017 -> 04:00 PM) Not rabbit but to me, Acuna is best prospect in baseball Based upon pure upside right now? Acuna is likely right near the top, although you could certainly argue a case for Moncada and Rosario as well.

QUOTE (raBBit @ Jul 12, 2017 -> 03:46 PM) That's probably fairest of the four but I would take that for Q right now and not look back. I think people need to adjust their expectations. All the Sox need is for one team to separate from the pack and pony up. Q's contract gets more valuable over time with the huge cost of free agent starting pitching. I'm willing to set realistic expectations, but I also want a nice package back.

QUOTE (whitesoxwinner @ Jul 12, 2017 -> 03:39 PM) Which opposing teams wouldn't do those trades? No way Braves deal Acuna + Soroka + Gohara + lotto for Quintana. That is a monster package.

QUOTE (whitesoxwinner @ Jul 12, 2017 -> 03:32 PM) Who says no or do they both do it: White Sox: Quintana Yankees: Frazier, Andujar, Fowler White Sox: Quintana Braves: Acuna, Soroka, Gohara +lotto White Sox: Quintana Brewers: Brinson, Dubon, Phillips +lotto White Sox: Quintana Rockies: Rodgers, McMahon, Lambert #1 Sox say no #2 Sox say yes, close the deal and run before the Braves realize what they just did #3 Meh, Sox say no. Need a better second piece than Dubon #4 Interesting for sure, could be a potential framework.

QUOTE (Harry Chappas @ Jul 12, 2017 -> 02:55 PM) Would the cubs give up he, Schwarber or Happ and Jimenez for Quintana? No. Quintana is not going to be traded to the Cubs

QUOTE (Jose Abreu @ Jul 12, 2017 -> 02:39 PM) whitesoxdave‏ @barstoolWSD Haven't heard anything at all today buttttt apparently Cease was just scratch from his start tonight Doubt it is related

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Jul 12, 2017 -> 02:21 PM) Swarzak also has no history of being this good, or close to it. That will be the big negative when it comes to him. For relievers we live in a "what have you done for me lately" sort of league right now. Swarzak's peripherals are very good and he should generate some interest as a middle relief option for a contender. He is a pure rental and won't be priced as high as guys like Robertson/Kahnle/Hand/etc.

QUOTE (ChiSox_Sonix @ Jul 12, 2017 -> 02:08 PM) I think it is because they believe something is close. You can't just not pitch him until something gets done, but this also buys you a couple extra days to complete your deal before you are forced to pitch him. No one will really bat an eye that he is scheduled Sunday instead of Friday, but they would if he was scheduled Tuesday or Wednesday. Sox likely not sure something will be done by Friday/Saturday, but if not done by Sunday you pitch him and continue to field offers upto the deadline. Pretty much zero smoke or leaks today, although it is still early.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Jul 12, 2017 -> 02:02 PM) I'd love a Duke type of deal, minus the whole players all suffering horrific injuries part. Swarzak has arguably been even better than Duke was at the time he was traded. A similar return, ideally minus the injuries, should certainly be possible.

QUOTE (raBBit @ Jul 12, 2017 -> 01:56 PM) As you can see with the stats of our Charlotte starters the last few years, it's not a great place to pitch. I think Fulmer can put similar stats in the MLB. You can at least allow Coop to work with him and get a fresh start. If he sucks you learn more about him and help the rebuild, if he's better that's progress. I want Giolito to continue his progress and Lopez is ready but you might as well wait. Fulmer has been a mess this past month, I'm not sure about calling him up right now.

QUOTE (ChiSoxJon @ Jul 12, 2017 -> 01:35 PM) What does Swarzak net back? I assume a very mediocre prospect or two Hard to say. Contenders are always looking for bullpen help at the deadline, and Swarzak is having a career year. Could be an attractive rental piece for sure.

QUOTE (SouthSideSale @ Jul 12, 2017 -> 11:09 AM) @jonmorosi Anthony Swarzak is a sleeper trade candidate. He's having career year with #WhiteSox, will be free agent after '17; 1.00 WHIP in 41 IP. @MLB Sorry posting from my phone Swarzak will be pitching for a different team August 1st barring injury. He should be able to return a decent piece.

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Jul 12, 2017 -> 10:13 AM) Nightengale has nothing. Rosenthal has nothing. Heyman has nothing. Passan was all over the place, nothing specific. Those guys saying something is close would seem to help the White Sox extract a bigger package. So if something is close, I question the lack of leaks, unless the package is so premium, they would be worried the opposite side would pull out if word leaked out. There is smoke from our local guys, but outside of Passan saying "maybe" there is not much to go off of. I'm with you Dick, I'll buy in much more once national guys tweet about it.

QUOTE (SouthSideSale @ Jul 12, 2017 -> 09:57 AM) It's smart to get this done sooner than later because of other teams still in limbo in regards to whether they're buying or selling. Q is the domino that needs to drop for the rest of the market to heat up it seems. We have plenty of other pieces on sale right now ready to move.

QUOTE (bmags @ Jul 12, 2017 -> 09:35 AM) Ha, that's kind of impossible to answer. "If we were a contender" would mean to me we had some great pieces on our roster and the same farm? I guess I'd hope to get away with it by trading Robert, Collins and like Jordan Stephens. I would think some combination of of Robert/Hansen/Collins/Adams/Burger/Guerrero would be an appealing package Side note: Ben Almquist‏ @citadelchief 7m7 minutes ago More Ben Almquist Retweeted KC Kingdom Quintana would be a big addition to the rotation, but the White Sox are going to expect a lot in return. Not sure it's worth it. #Royals Worth what? The Royals farm system is bottom 5 in the mlb?

QUOTE (bmags @ Jul 12, 2017 -> 09:25 AM) I thought the Pirates/Yankees fan bases rated him appropriately. Completely unsurprised most think they can get him with trash as that is typical, we do it too. Astros fans were the harshest, but it seemed to be coming from complete confidence that all of their prospects were awesome, which, I would hope is the case since we are trying to acquire theirs. Haven't met a rockies fan in my life and haven't seen much from brew crew. Braves fans seem to want to steer clear of Quintana. Hypothetically speaking, it is interesting to consider what we would be willing to give up from our own farm system for Quintana if we were a contender? I'm sure the ask would be steep, but we do have the farm to pull a deal off now.

QUOTE (SouthSideSale @ Jul 12, 2017 -> 09:22 AM) It's because of his name, record and start this year. People of those fan bases don't know about the 65 NDs since 2012 Fans do not think about how valuable 3 1/2 prime seasons of control for roughly $32 million is in today's mlb. That is absolute peanuts compared to what a #1/#2 starting pitcher will cost in free agency. A guy like Darvish could easily be looking at a 6/150 million contract this offseason, if not more in a competitive market? If I am a contender and could add a player like Q to my roster without surrendering any player off of the 25 man roster I would be heavily involved. Prospects flame out all the time, with proven players you know what you are getting.

QUOTE (SouthSideSale @ Jul 12, 2017 -> 09:08 AM) I traded Q to NY in MLB the show back during the winter meetings for a Frazier, Judge + package. I'm surprised by how many fanbases are reacting negatively to their team's perceived interest in Quintana. Typically fans want their team to go for it and trade for impact talent. Quintana just does not resonate with most casual fans outside of Chicago it seems. Knowledgeable fans know how valuable he is.