steveno89

QUOTE (iamshack @ Jun 14, 2017 -> 03:44 PM) He's basically making $8 million through his arb years and then we have three option years where he can make up to another $15-18 million total depending on certain things happening or not happening. So he can ultimately make about $25 million over 6 years. What is the max Kahnle might reasonably make over his next 6 years? I suppose maybe it's worth doing? I dunno, I think I would wait at least a year? There's no need to extend Kahnle as his arbitration raises should not be too bad, at least next year. I still dangle him now and see if anybody bites. Relief help is always in demand at the deadline, and I'm sure the Sox will be a popular phone call as we auction off pretty much everything.

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Jun 14, 2017 -> 03:28 PM) The Nats owner nixed the Robertson trade because of money. He nixed signing Greg Holland because of money attached to a vesting option. To think they will go out and trade a bunch of top prospects for highly paid guys seems very improbable. That was the offseason, prior to the bullpen imploding. If money is a big sticking point I would potentially entertain absorbing salary as long as the prospect return was increased. Nats can't ask for salary relief, and second second tier prospects and hope for impact help. What other contenders might want Robertson/Kahnle/Swarzak?

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Jun 14, 2017 -> 03:14 PM) So I don't know who else is paying attention, but we are to round 30. We still have picked exactly 1 HS player. Not only that, but our last 11 straight picks are college seniors, or even a 5th year senior. Day 3 has given us exactly zero young lottery tickets. 12 of our 20 picks so far today are seniors. I think the Sox felt they were going to have to go overslot for McClure and Skoug and had to save money for that? I'm a little surprised we did not dive a bit more into the high school ranks, but at the stage we are in during the rebuild I understand stocking the minors with players a bit further along in their development. The entire mlb draft is largely a crapshoot, especially beyond the first few rounds. The talent level thins out extremely quick, and teams get lucky and hit on some players, but miss on the vast majority.

QUOTE (Eminor3rd @ Jun 14, 2017 -> 03:21 PM) Price-wise, your logic is sound, but it's predicated on the false assumption that market price for players remains stable over any significant period of time. Every time a trade happens in the MLB, the amount of supply AND demand in the market changes substantially. The buyer willing to pay the highest price for the player just left the market. Sure the Cubs were willing to give up Torres for Miller in 2016, but it is no longer 2016, the Cubs no longer have Torres, and the Cubs are no longer buying relievers. Also, Robertson isn't nearly as good as Miller, and the world has almost universally agreed that the trade was an overpay that only made sense because the Cubs ended up winning the title. There are so many dynamic, unique factors to each trade season that it just doesn't make sense to use previous season's trades as baselines for player value, IMO. I'll agree with that. I'm using those deals as a recent deadline example for relief pitching. The Nationals are faced with a championship caliber roster and rotation, but a weak pen that is likely to result in their early playoff exit unless addressed. I would go as far to say the 2017 Nationals might be in a more desperate situation than the Cubs were in 2016, because the Cubs theoretical contention window is longer than that Nats. Robertson is not as good, no doubt, but Robertson is also very much available. I do not see an appreciably better and/or more proven closing option on the trade market right now, or at least one that will come at an equal or lesser cost. Adding a closer does not really solve their issues though, as their entire pen, outside of Albers, has been bad. Kahnle will cost too much for them, but a Robertson + Swarzak + cash for some combination of prospects not named Robles or Fedde I think could be realistic?

QUOTE (Joshua Strong @ Jun 14, 2017 -> 03:17 PM) Would extending Kahnle to a team friendly deal (like Nate Jones) and buying out his arb years, make him more valuable? I don't think it is necessary as Kahnle is under team control through the 2020 season anyways. That is ages of control for a reliever who is going to be 28 years old in August.

QUOTE (iamshack @ Jun 14, 2017 -> 02:53 PM) I mean let's face it, no one is f***ing replacing Harper...I get that this kid is a great prospect and will play the same position, but Bryce Harper, he is not. I agree with you on going all in. Imagine an organization that limited Strasburg's innings a few years back because they were so certain he was going to pitch them to multiple World Series now fails to shore up its bullpen while it has Bryce Harper, and therefore loses in the playoffs. Then Bryce Harper leaves. How will the FO be looking then? Now also imagine if they go out and get that bullpen solidified with 2-3 good pieces, and they go on to win or at least compete for a World Series. When Bryce leaves, I don't think the FO will be taking heat, even if they had to move a guy like Robles to win while Harper was here. Not saying I wouldn't want to keep Robles...but if the choice was between having my best chance of winning while Harper is here and leaving my roster exposed for the next year or two in the playoffs because of some kid currently in high A ball at the moment, I know which direction I am going in. I'm with you. Case in point is the Chapman and Miller deals last year. Chapman was a pure three month rental for the Cubs, and it cost them Torres. Miller was more than a rental, but returned Frazier and Sheffield plus a couple of flyers. Robertson/Swarzak/Kahnle are not on their level certainly, but I'd be interested if Robertson + Kahnle + cash could be enough to push them over the edge and deal Robles +

QUOTE (iamshack @ Jun 14, 2017 -> 02:35 PM) Yeah, one would think they would want to pair someone like Neshek and Robertson....two different styles... IMO, they need more than just a closer though...they need 2-3 pieces. Not sure they can really afford to acquire 2-3 impact pieces given the current status of their farm? If I am the Nationals I fully roll the dice and go for it in 2017 and 2018, who knows when they will have this good of a chance again? The NL East is weak, you could secure home field advantage and have a real shot. I'd be extremely hesitant to deal Robles as he is directly a replacement for Harper after next season.

QUOTE (iamshack @ Jun 14, 2017 -> 02:11 PM) Let me ask you this...do you think it is improbable that they go out and get 2 relievers on the market? The Nationals do have other options: http://www.cbssports.com/mlb/news/dusty-ba...e-some-options/ But not all of those options are necessarily great ones. Doolittle has been very injury prone, and I'm not sure I would want to rely on him staying on the field to anchor a world series run. Herrera has had a down year, and the Royals are not necessarily out of the division race yet. Colome is not going to come cheap in a trade. Hand won't come cheap in a trade. Twins are in first place, why would they sell as of right now? Mason could be an option, although his contract is not all that cheap for a soon to be 37 year old player. Neshek seems like a fit, but not necessarily as your world series closer. Ramos is an ok option, but far from dominant as of late. He's due a hefty raise via arbitration.

QUOTE (Quinarvy @ Jun 14, 2017 -> 12:41 PM) Hypothetical: What would you ask from the Nats for Robertson, Kahnle AND Swarzak I don't see a deal for three relievers coming together, mainly due to roster moves the Nationals would have to make in order for that to happen. The White Sox will want prospects in return Cost wise, I absolutely would be asking for Robles and/or Fedde + more Robertson is the reliable closer they need, Kahnle and Swarzak have been very good this season and could serve as a bridge to Robertson.

QUOTE (iamshack @ Jun 14, 2017 -> 11:59 AM) I think if you are moving Kahnle and Robertson, you need to get YOUR guy back. Not depth. You need to get a piece you believe you can plug in for years as a valuable regular. I'm sure the phone will start ringing once the draft is over as teams start to gauge the price for White Sox players, especially relievers. The Nats are screwed really. Ownership prevented Rizzo from signing Greg Holland and/or trading for Robertson, and now the pen is a complete mess. Their farm is not very deep anymore, they do not have much payroll flexibility and their window of contention is rapidly closing. I don't think they will move Robles, but Soto and Kieboom very well might be available.

QUOTE (Soha @ Jun 14, 2017 -> 11:45 AM) I would move Robertson and Swarzak for Soto, plus a lottery ticket or two. I would not do that deal if you swapped Kahnle in for Swarzak, though. Then they would need to add Keiboom. I agree. Robertson and Kahnle would require multiple quality pieces coming back to the White Sox, but would hugely improve the Nats bullpen woes. Robertson and Swarzak/Kahnle could be a very attractive package.

QUOTE (ChiliIrishHammock24 @ Jun 14, 2017 -> 02:52 AM) On MLB Network someone said Jedd Gyorko as a comp and Longenhagen said that was a fascinating comp for Burger. Gyorko is a very solid player, I would not be disappointed if Burger turned out like him at all. He's not necessarily a "star", but he's very solid. We need more players like that.

QUOTE (witesoxfan @ Jun 14, 2017 -> 11:30 AM) It's all about command/control with Kahnle. If he is keeping the ball in the strike zone, no one is really touching him. I think he's legit. I'd offer him at probably just under the Giles price and if no one bites, no one bites. I'm not suggesting Kahnle does not have value. I just can't see another club being willing to offer a top 50 mlb prospect in return for a reliever who has thrown 25 great innings this season. Ken Giles netted 4 prospects, I can't see Kahnle being able to command that sort of return at all. Maybe I'm wrong, but I just do not expect his perceived value to be that high at this point. Now if he continues to pitch like this the rest of the season?He could have very real trade value in the offseason.

QUOTE (Username @ Jun 14, 2017 -> 10:15 AM) Then why trade him? He's got 3 more years of control, and if he can demonstrate that he can close he'll be worth an absurd haul. Look at the Ken Giles trade for context. I'm not talking about 2 top end guys (more 80-100 or fringe). But I see no point in trading a guy with Chapmana-level stuff and a team friendly contract for 1 good prospect unless it's a blue chipper. Kahnle has pitched 25 great innings so far. It's way too soon to declare him anything like Chapman or Giles. We really don't have any use for Kahnle the next few seasons as we are rebuilding, and I absolutely would dangle him, along with most of our roster, at the deadline. Asking 2 top 100 prospects is absurd at this point though for Kahnle straight up

QUOTE (Username @ Jun 14, 2017 -> 08:55 AM) I'd probably need 2 top 100 pieces at minimum. Don't see the point in moving him otherwise since he's under control. Unless you get an absolute blue chipper (ie Tucker). Which probably isn't gonna happen. Nationals: Soto and Kieboom (I know not top 100 but he's likely right there) Astros: Fisher and Whitley/Perez...astros could also do something with quantity. Cardinals: Delvin Perez and another good piece. 2 top 100 prospects for Tommy Kahnle? There is no way he would fetch that in a trade given his short track record of success.

QUOTE (CaliSoxFanViaSWside @ Jun 14, 2017 -> 08:26 AM) Doesn't suck at all . Despite all the K's Davidson is hitting better than Frazier. Not sold on him as a better fielder though. Avi with another 2 RBI and Holland stopping his bad starts streak so helped the trade value. Holland's 5.35 FIP is unlikely to fool any team into thinking he's all that valuable on the trade market. If he continues to eat innings for us that's really all we can ask.

QUOTE (beautox @ Jun 13, 2017 -> 04:22 PM) I've been really impressed with this whole draft so far. Gonzalez, McClure & Skoug just feel like steals. I'm really digging this draft as well, assuming that we can sign all of these guys Burger Sheets Gonzalez Henzman Johnson McClure Skoug Abbott? I think we got three interesting arms in Henzman, Johnson and McClure. McClure stands out as a player who could be a late bloomer given his huge size. Burger, Sheets and Skoug certainly add a power element that did not really exist within the organization. Each also helps fill out our organizational depth.

QUOTE (credezcrew24 @ Jun 13, 2017 -> 04:10 PM) "Senior 1B/3B/P Sammy Abbott (whose mother was an Olympic swimmer) was named 2nd team all-4A SPSL as a designated hitter during his sophomore season and has continued to produce at the plate since, earning an honorable mention last season. A multi-sport star who has spent time in the USA Water Polo program, Abbott recently signed on to play water polo at Long Beach State, where he also hopes to continue his baseball career as a walk-on." Strange pick Hmmmm Seems like a total hail mary of a selection so to speak, and that is if he signs

QUOTE (Hatchetman @ Jun 13, 2017 -> 04:04 PM) sounds like a wasted pick to me. High school first baseman that nobody has ever heard of? Bit of a head scratcher, and who knows if he signs? Seems like he's a swimming star and water polo player. Does not sound like a guy willing to sign for slot or less

QUOTE (shipps @ Jun 13, 2017 -> 03:48 PM) It seems like Skoug will be extremely difficult to sign considering he fell as far as he did. How the hell are the Sox going to make it work with slot money on him? Skoug is a college junior, so he would be really rolling the dice by not accepting his 201K draft bonus slot for the 7th round. If he gets injured or performs poorly, he will have zero leverage as a senior. I think he signs.

QUOTE (ChiSox59 @ Jun 13, 2017 -> 03:26 PM) Gonna go ahead and guess that people that scout baseball players for a living aren't taking any semblance of advice on anything anyone says on a message board. Skoug is arguably less likely than Collins to end up sticking at catcher, but it never hurts to have depth an organizational options. In the seventh round getting a player like Skoug is a great get.

QUOTE (oneofthemikes @ Jun 13, 2017 -> 03:09 PM) What's the story with high rated guys that have fallen a long way? Guys like Tanner Burns, Evan Skoug, Tristan Beck, and others that were rated in the top 75 talents in the draft are still around in the 7th round. Signability concerns? Skoug showed good power numbers with 20 homers this season, but teams must be concerned about the high number of strikeouts and fairly weak batting average

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Jun 13, 2017 -> 01:46 PM) Tyler Johnson RHP U of South Carolina Johnson seems like a solid power arm out of the bullpen. Interesting to see if they try to stretch him out as a starter? I'm glad they are bringing in some interesting arms now.

QUOTE (fathom @ Jun 13, 2017 -> 01:44 PM) KLaw just mentioned make up concerns also for Gonzalez Mlb.com blurb states high grades for makeup, who's right? My guess is he slipped in the draft due to facing weak competition and him having below average power. Although he did hit plenty of doubles and swipes bases pretty well.

QUOTE (shipps @ Jun 13, 2017 -> 12:33 PM) The draft picks feel so much different now that we have some great young talent in the minors already. Its like every pick feels like icing on a cake instead of desperation that someway or somehow one of the guys make it in the big leagues. Mind you these picks are just as important as all the other years. It just feels like less pressure. Agreed. In 2016 it felt like we really needed to nail every selection otherwise our future was screwed. Now it feels better having a much improved farm that we are adding depth to. Our future from 2020 onwards looks bright.