steveno89

QUOTE (GreenSox @ Mar 27, 2017 -> 10:29 PM) It's possible for him to get a Sale return. But that would require a)no regression and b)limited supply of pitchers in July. I think those factors are far more likely to go against the Sox than move in the Sox favor. "If they're going to include both Martes and Tucker, there needs to be something else coming back in addition to Quintana (a ptbnl rookie league prospect, Robertson with salary relief, Jennings, or Jones). Otherwise, I think Chicago will have a hard time beating a package that includes 1 of Martes/Tucker plus 3 fringe top 100 types (Fisher, Perez, Whitley, Paulino, Cameron, Moran, Reed, etc.)." From an Astros fan^^^ I think this is somewhat indicative for the gap the exists between the Sox asking price and what is being offered. Quintana is not being traded for Martes or Tucker plus some second tier prospects. Martes AND Tucker would be a minimum starting point to headline a package, plus substantially more would have to be included. Sox would likely accept a Martes + Tucker + Musgrove/Reed package Anything less, why bother from the Sox point of view?

QUOTE (shipps @ Mar 28, 2017 -> 10:03 AM) Hot damn, we love to jump to early conclusions. LOL Agreed Judging Giolito based only on very limited spring training performance is a big mistake He is not a finished product and really could use a full season at AAA to develop Sox are going to be patient with all these prospects, and fans need to understand that going through adversity is part of what young players need to learn to handle

QUOTE (Quinarvy @ Mar 28, 2017 -> 12:48 AM) It really is a testament to Theo. The Cubs rebuild started with Castro, Samardzija and Rizzo. The Sox are lucky in that they get to start their rebuild with Q, Rodon, Anderson, Moncada, Giolito, Kopech, Lopez, and Fulmer. Don't forget about Hansen, Collins, Burdi and Basabe. Each of them is expected to contribute at some point to our rebuild.

QUOTE (soxfan2014 @ Mar 28, 2017 -> 08:12 AM) Plus, speed is his game and if he does manage to stay up for 6 years, his first year of a potential new deal would be his age 31 season. He likely won't get a big deal. May's .662 OPS at AAA last season does not inspire much confidence for him to be anything more than a 4th outfielder/pinch runner

QUOTE (ChiSoxFanMike @ Mar 28, 2017 -> 12:00 AM) Not sure if it really makes a difference for a fringe prospect like May, but why not keep him in the minors for a couple weeks to get the extra year of control just in case he becomes something in the big leagues? If May somehow defies expectations and produces then the Sox still have him under control for plenty of time. Could always sign him to an early extension? That is getting way way way ahead of ourselves though May is fortunate that we are rebuilding, otherwise he's be stuck in the minors still

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Mar 28, 2017 -> 07:57 AM) It would have been nice to get a C prospect or a few bucks from the Latin American money, but I mean look who we are talking about? Hopefully the goodwill with Tampa pays off down the line at some point. I was hoping "cash considerations" would be at least a little international bonus pool money

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Mar 27, 2017 -> 03:15 PM) The recent article speculated that he wouldn't be dealt until the summer at the soonest. Not enough bidding interest at this time. No team feels the urgency to meet the Sox asking price right now As soon as a starter goes down, or a team finds itself very much in contention, pressure will increase to trade for Quintana He will be moved by the deadline

QUOTE (IowaSoxFan @ Mar 27, 2017 -> 11:17 AM) The other piece to this equation is Otani. If he does end up coming over this winter as he has said he is going to do, and MLB sticks to its guns that there is no exception for him, someone is going to get him for a steal. The teams that are not making a splash on J2 will have a the best shot (Sox and Orioles for instance). So even if the Sox go all out for Robert in the 2017/18 J2 period and miss, they could have a really nice consolation prize in Otani. I fully expect the Sox to open up the checkbook in coming seasons to add to the farm and roster We should have a great deal of payroll flexibility in the next few seasons, especially after guys like Frazier, Shields and Cabrera come off the books

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Mar 27, 2017 -> 09:40 AM) Capable? Sure. But they just don't historically outbid everyone for players. Even a guy like Abreu had an element of fluke to him. None of the top payroll teams had a place for Jose to play, which left the White Sox as a tall midget. They made a bid on Soler, but were significantly outbid by the Cubs. That is much more typical of the White Sox in the open market. They come in second much more often than they come in first. The MLB is a business after all. Owner's have limits on what they are comfortable spending Would Robert be a great fit into our system? Absolutely

QUOTE (Y2JImmy0 @ Mar 27, 2017 -> 08:56 AM) I wonder if the Sox would rather have him cleared sooner than later. In the next period, The Sox could offer him $4.75 million. They'd likely have to acquire more $$ to sign him I'd think to a bonus closer to $8 million. If he's cleared now, some think he ends up in STL or SD but Sox could justify spending more than those teams on him in current period. If they really want him, I think they get him. They paid $68 million for Abreu. It's different because of none of that was a penalty but it's still $68 million. They offered $25 million for Jorge Soler. If they think he's worth $50 million they could easily offer $25 million and pay a $25 million tax to take it to $50 million total. It's still just money. I know they haven't typically operated this way but Hahn has hinted towards doing it for the "right" player. It benefits the Sox to have him cleared after June 15th, but this is totally out of our control If we sign Robert, great. If not? Then we move on to other guys to sign Hopefully we can find a way to get him

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Mar 27, 2017 -> 08:46 AM) Yes, there are some of the bigger spenders are out either way. It all depends on what he gets. If he gets what Moncada got, $30 million plus $30 million penalty, I'd be shocked the Sox won the bidding. But Boston can't offer that. Who can? If he is as good as many think, he fits in perfectly with any team, and is exactly the type of player the White Sox are looking to add. Acquiring him is like having an extra #1/1 pick in the draft or an extra ace to trade. Very likely that the MLB drags its feet and does not clear Robert prior to June 15th. I think the league frowns upon a team just going nuts in international free agency, hence the new model Sox will be in the mix either way for him

QUOTE (turnin' two @ Mar 23, 2017 -> 05:43 PM) There will be an abundance of scouts at each of Q's starts I would bet. Pirates fans have to be the most upset with all these rumors. They have the prospects, but have not been willing to do what it takes. Another mediocre season with no playoffs awaits

QUOTE (OmarComing25 @ Mar 23, 2017 -> 05:28 PM) This year Baltimore, Detroit, KC, Anaheim, Texas, Seattle, NYY are all .500 teams and one or more of them is going to make the playoffs. I'm not saying put your bets on the 2019 playoffs (2020 is obviously what we should shoot for) but just saying it's not that crazy of a scenario, especially if the division is as bad as I think it's going to be. All the stuff need to do is make the playoffs and ideally ride dominant pitching to get them through. Position prospects are less risky, but man are elite arms important in October

QUOTE (iamshack @ Mar 23, 2017 -> 04:13 PM) Anyone think the game of chicken ends after today and something gets done? Doubtful I still think Quintana gets dealt closer to the deadline Sox would love to move him, but know they absolutely cannot settle for a lesser package with their final blue chip trade piece

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Mar 23, 2017 -> 02:26 PM) #1 and #4 go a long way towards bolstering my argument that 2019 is too soon. Those players won't be helping us in this time frame in all likelihood. The class of 2016 by and large is going to be ready to debut in around the 2019 to 2020 range, and being contributors a season or two after that. Even if we sign a guy like Robert think of that time frame. When is he going to be able to sign? June? July? That gets him into the system in mid-2017 if he signs. At 19 years old, and having missed a ton of baseball recently, when is a realistic time frame for him to get to Chicago? A guy like Moncada signed in March of 15, and saw his first action in September. That gave him two full seasons in the minors for all intents and purposes. Assuming Robert is as advanced, and is able to move through the minors just as quickly, that puts his debut sometime in the middle of 2019. Also remember what Moncada looked like in his debut last year, and realize that there is a pretty good chance that expecting the guy to contribute to a playoff team in two seasons is pretty unrealistic. Realistic to me is a mid to late 2020 debut, maybe a regular and contributor by 2021 or 22. #2, being a top spender in free agency is something I am going to doubt until it actually happens. Sure we have come in second for top talent a lot of times, but our history doesn't give me much hope of luring Manny Machado to the south side. #3, the inevitable Q deal is of definite interest. At this point every single team we have talked about has refused to send us their top positional talent. No Meadows, no Bergman, no Swanson, no Torres. Getting one of those first three guys gives us a guy that instantly fills a hole that we currently are projecting for the future. Anyone below that and the odds of that the prospect we get failing goes up by a decent amount, along with the timeline of when they will be ready to contribute. Again, not really helping us be ready for a 2019 playoff team. An Atlanta deal with Albies as a headliner gives another middle IF, but where does he play? With Anderson set at SS, and the team grooming Moncada into 2B, where does he go? If he is in the deal, one of the three is probably moving to CF, I would guess? Who knows. A Houston deal with Kyle Tucker headlining the position players gives us a guy with a grand total of 69 ABs at A+ ball. The odds of him being an anchor for a 2019 playoff run? Again, maybe a guy who if he hits well can make a 2019 debut at around mid-season, but probably not someone to count on for that season. A Yankees deal with Frazier as a headliner would get us a guy who is on track for a 2017 debut, and should be a contributor by the 2019 time frame. If the deal is NOT led by Frazier the prospects for a guy contributing that quickly diminishes by a large amount. Torres, (who supposedly is untouchable anyway), Rutherford, Andujar, and Mateo are in the lowest levels of the minors. They are all guys who are in the 2020 to 2021 time frame to really help a team. Even when I try to put specifics into the organization, I am not seeing it. What you are saying is valid, but quite a few of our prospects should be ready to contribute by 2019 Moncada, Collins, Giolito, Dunning, Hansen, Call, Fisher, Basabe, Burdi, Kopech, Lopez could all be at or near the mlb level I'm not saying payoffs in 2019, but it is not out of the question. Detroit is getting old and does not have much of a farm system. Cleveland is in it's prime right now. Kansas City's prime is ending. The Twins are stuck rebuilding, but I like the Sox farm better. What large contracts do we have on the books beyond the next 2 seasons? Sox will have tons of payroll flexibility to add to the roster via free agency. I'm not saying we shell out for the mega guys, but we have plenty of money for quality free agents I'd be happy with Albies as a headlienr to a Quintana deal. He could play 2B and Moncada moves over to 3B? Albies also has the speed and arm to play in center. I'm less concerned about positions right now as I am in acquiring the best possible talent. Albies is arguably underrated despite being a top 15 prospect. Great makeup, speed, glove and hit tool

QUOTE (Chicago White Sox @ Mar 23, 2017 -> 02:07 PM) The problem may have been they were 100% in on Robert and simply weren't sure which class he'd end up in. If that were the case, they obviously couldn't go all in on the 2016-17 class. Sox might be thinking the MLB will intentionally drag its feet on clearing Robert, making him a part of next year's class In which case it would be smart of the Sox not to go crazy prior to him becoming a free agent You would have to think Chicago would be an attractive destination with all the young talent we are assembling?

QUOTE (Sleepy Harold @ Mar 23, 2017 -> 12:59 PM) Rob Young @RobertHYoung now Hahn stopped short of assigning Michael Kopech to Winston-Salem, saying that Kopech has made "awfully good case" to start in AA Birmingham Not much harm in having him start the season in Winston-Salem. You can always promote him to AA in a few months.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Mar 23, 2017 -> 11:19 AM) This is the exact reason that people are too optimistic on this rebuild. The window is way too short for the guys who are in the minors now to be productive at a level to put us on a playoff arc. Plus there is still not nearly enough offensive talent even here to achieve that. Like it or not, with not getting much offensive talent in the Eaton/Sale deals, plus not getting anything for Q as of yet, the timeline really hasn't advanced that far. We still need drafts and development out of players we don't have yet. There is currently not enough offensive talent, but you are discounting many factors 1) Likely high draft picks the next few seasons, starting with #11 overall in 2017...Sox need to draft well 2) Sox have tons of payroll flexibility moving forward and will be in position to spend on free agents to fill holes 3) The inevitable Quintana trade should net us 3-4 quality prospects, which will bolster our farm even more. I guaranty the Sox will get at least one or two bats back in a deal for him with high upside. 4) International signings. Sox are rumored to be very much in on Luis Robert. Going all in on him makes perfect sense for what we are trying to do. Yes, we will rebuild and suck in 2017. 2018 will be painful as well as many of our young prospects going through their debut and growing pains 2019 the roster should be improved from our prospect depth and anticipated free agent signings. I expect the team to be active. Allot can change in the next few seasons, but you have to like the pitching depth we are stocking up on Rodon, Fulmer, Giolito, Burdi, Hansen, Dunning, Lopez, Kopech, Adams, Stephens As Hahn stated, the Sox are closer to the beginning of the process than to the end.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Mar 23, 2017 -> 11:11 AM) Three seasons as in 2019? No way. Not a chance. There isn't enough talent here yet for that. 2020 is when the window opens IMO. If Matain takes 5 or even 6 seasons to get here, that puts him right smack in the middle of things in 2021 or 22. He won't be on the front end, but he would be right in the middle of the revival, if it works. Doubtful he reaches the majors and is ready to produce at the level we would need him to as a rookie Keep in mind, my projected timeline is a "best case" scenario for a prospect like Maitan 2017 = suck 2018 = suck, signs of improvement 2019 = ideally get back to around .500, definite signs of improvement 2020 onward = window of contention I would not get stuck on Maitan, a deal could get done with Atlanta without him

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Mar 23, 2017 -> 10:52 AM) Everyone fits into our time line. I think people who think differently are way underestimating how long it will be before this team is going to be good again. Obviously Matain won 't be in the first wave, but he should be in the middle of the period where this team is good again. If you look at what the White Sox have done this winter, it is that they aren't getting all guys who are major league ready. Kopech and Basabe for example are years away. Yes, and no Maitan is 17 years old and will not be mlb ready for at least 4-5 seasons. I'm fine with him as a second piece, but the Sox are looking to turn this around within the next three seasons or so. Best case timeline for Maitan would be: 1) DZL league this year, possibly see some rookie ball 2) Rookie ball next season, possibly some low A 3) Likely a full season in low A, potentially getting bumped to high A mideason 4) Full season at AA, potentially getting bump to AAA late 5) AAA or possibly MLB debut We don't really have the luxury of waiting that long on a player. Maitan would be a high school junior right now...nowhere near mlb ready

QUOTE (SoxAce @ Mar 23, 2017 -> 10:55 AM) Not to mention 2B isn't a premier power hitting position anyways. If they do get him hypothetically, he or Moncada would have to move to the OF. Depends what the sox value more. Defense or all star appearances. Actually 2nd base has become more and more of a power hitting position as of late. A league average second baseman hit 18 home runs last year

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Mar 23, 2017 -> 10:37 AM) With a guy like this, if you wait for him, you miss out on him. This is the best chance the White Sox have left to get a kid who is quite literally regarded as a generational talent into the system. Three years from now, he is going to be where Yoan Moncada is at. Perhaps, but he is only 17 years old In three years he will be nowhere near mlb ready His ceiling is compared to Miguel Cabrera and Chipper Jones, but zero mention of what his floor is. Maitan does not fit in with our rebuilding timeline, as the Sox are looking for prospects much closer to mlb ready As a second piece in a deal with the Braves? Absolutely I would be on board. But as a headliner there is far too much risk

QUOTE (ChiSoxFanMike @ Mar 23, 2017 -> 10:32 AM) He hasn't even had a professional at-bat yet. He's 17 years old. The hype train has to slow down a bit until he shows he can do it against pro competition. Maitan has proven nothing so far, and is ages away from the majors

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Mar 23, 2017 -> 10:09 AM) I would much rather get Matain instead of Albies or Acuna. Honestly Albies with zero power doesn't excite me at all as a headliner. You are really underrating how good Ozzie Albies can be MLB.com scouting grades on him = Scouting grades: Hit: 65 | Power: 30 | Run: 70 | Arm: 55 | Field: 65 | Overall: 60 He might never hit for much power, but is a great leader, plus hitter, plus runner and a great fielder Imagine a lineup that had Anderson, Moncada and Albies in it? Young, athletic and dangerous speed. Each of those guys is a threat to steal if they get on base

QUOTE (Buehrlesque @ Mar 23, 2017 -> 08:21 AM) I really like this, except to make it a little more palatable for the Astros, sub Martes out for a lower level arm (Perez or Whitley). Teams are not generally willing to part with 5 top 15 organizational prospects in one move. It is just not a good baseball decision. I'm not sure Jennings inclusion is necessary here