steveno89

QUOTE (bmags @ Feb 13, 2017 -> 12:50 PM) It's an interesting list, but I wonder how many actual GMs would trade Moncada straight up for JP Crawford. Zero That is the first list that I have seen placing Crawford above Moncada

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Feb 13, 2017 -> 12:32 PM) What is really nice is to see a couple of guys on that list that we actually drafted. If Hansen carries his performance from 2016 over to 2017 then he will for sure be a top 100 prospect by mid season Hansen is still a high risk prospect, both to remain healthy and improve his control over the course of a whole season If everything breaks right he could be a #2 starter at ceiling, the floor is never making it out of the minors and the control never comes He was a very good second round pick due to the big upside though

QUOTE (soxfan2014 @ Feb 13, 2017 -> 11:58 AM) What about Soto, Kieboom, and Voth for Robertson and $10 mill (5 this year and 5 next)? I don't see the Nats parting with Soto, Kieboom and Voth for Robertson and $10 million I would do that if I were Hahn, for sure The Nats system would be completely devoid of any depth though. Their future seriously in doubt after trading away 6 of their top prospects in one offseason

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Feb 13, 2017 -> 11:52 AM) That is kind of how I look at it. If the Nats won't let the Sox into the top few guys, no need to pay up on Robertson's deal. 100% agree, and hence the "stalemate" Nats are making the top tier prospects off the table, only including B- level prospects and below, and asking for the Sox to eat a significant amount of money Sox aren't stupid and know that the Nats are in huge need of a reliable closer I'd offer 2 options to Rizzo: 1) Kieboom + Voth or Glover for Robertson, Nats pay entire contract 2) Fedde or Soto + Severino or Watson for Robertson, Sox pick up considerable amount of the contract

QUOTE (ChiSoxFanMike @ Feb 13, 2017 -> 11:06 AM) Which Nationals prospect is even worth eating a lot of money for? Robles is the only one I can think of and he probably isn't available. If the Nationals aren't willing to offer anything decent for him, then the Sox should just hold him and wait it out. I think he has a good chance of being a quality closer in 2017 which would increase his value at the deadline. That is the issue I think The Sox do not want to receive middling prospects back AND have to eat a large chunk of salary to make a deal happen If we are not getting Fedde or Soto as a headliner, I don't feel the Sox need to be kicking in all that much cash to make a deal happen. The Nats system really falls off sharply after Robles, Fedde and Soto The rumored Kieboom and Voth package is ok, but not if they want us to pay up as well

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Feb 13, 2017 -> 07:32 AM) Such an odd winter for this stuff to still be active. It seems like the "stalemate" is over Robertson's contract. I'm guessing the Sox do not want to pick up much, if any, of the contract given what free agent relievers were signing for this offseason. https://www.outsidepitchmlb.com/david-rober...nationals/63029 The rumored package of Kieboom and Voth seems fairly reasonable, but obviously I would prefer Fedde or Soto involved. Robles is not happening. http://www.minorleagueball.com/2016/12/9/1...spects-for-2017 This recent article ranks Kieboom #4 ("B-") and Voth #6 ("B-") in the Nationals system. Both solid prospects in their own right, but neither have a hugely high ceiling. "4) Carter Kieboom, SS, Grade B-: Age 19, first round pick in 2016 from high school in Georgia; hit .244/.323/.452 with four homers, 12 walks, 43 strikeouts in 135 at-bats in rookie ball; rookie ball stats showed more power but less batting average than anticipated, granted sample is small; expected to be a solid across-the-board hitter when he matures with more pop than typical for shortstop; strong throwing arm, may shift to third base if he loses too much range as he gets older. ETA: late 2020." "6) Austin Voth, RHP, Grade B-: Age 24, fifth round pick in 2013 from University of Washington; 3.15 ERA with 133/57 K/BB in 157 innings in Triple-A, 138 hits; fastball generally 88-93 with a touch higher at times; plays up due to command and contrast with solid-average slider and change-up; whole tends to be greater than the sum of the parts here; should be workhorse fourth starter or reliable bullpen presence. ETA 2017." Quality depth for our system for sure, but not the sort of prospects that I would want to eat a significant portion (or any) of Robertson's contract for

QUOTE (Two-Gun Pete @ Feb 12, 2017 -> 10:30 AM) This thread needs Con Te Giolito, his deluge of posts, and his pants-pissing routine that assumes that Q will SURELY get injured if he isn't traded NOW for any meager pittance. Whatever happened to that guy? Hahaha hr was a sky is falling poster I'm sure he's lurking. The message board needs a few of those to freshen things up

QUOTE (reiks12 @ Feb 11, 2017 -> 12:24 PM) I find it plausible. Sox scouts may be very low on one or more of those top 50 prospects. Just because they are ranked on some prospect list doesnt mean the Sox value them that way. No way the pirates offered six players for quintana. That would make very little sense.

QUOTE (iamshack @ Feb 9, 2017 -> 10:17 PM) No Martes or Tucker is what we heard earlier. Being unwilling to part with any of Musgrove, Martes or Tucker is crazy I doubt Hahn would have even bothered listening if all three of those players were off the table in a Quintana deal

QUOTE (Buehrlesque @ Feb 8, 2017 -> 11:01 AM) Do we have to taken Martes in an Astros package as a given? I say, why waste all your capital (so to speak) on another SP (and one who's not as good as Giolito or Kopech at that). Let the Astros keep Musgrove and Martes, who can nominally contribute to their big league team today. If the Sox deal with the Astros (not my preferred choice anyway), I'd rather see Q for Tucker + Reed + Laureano + one of Paulino/Whitley/Perez. There is zero chance a deal gets done that does not include at least one of Musgrove or Martes Tucker alone is not a good enough prospect to headline a Quintana deal. If the price were as low as Tucker + Reed + Laureano + Paulino/Whitley/Perez then more than half the mlb would be calling. That package could easily be beaten by the Braves, Pirates, Yankiees, etc

QUOTE (Y2JImmy0 @ Feb 8, 2017 -> 09:48 AM) If that's light then I don't see it getting done. 4 years of a top 20 mlb starter should return a king's ransom The Sox need a very good third piece otherwise this deal does not make sense for them Make Houston cave or wait until the deadline. Hahn has time to get this deal done, no need to rush and take less

QUOTE (Chicago White Sox @ Feb 8, 2017 -> 09:41 AM) And even if he did, the idea that accepting anything less is compromising is beyond ridculous. A starting ask is not going to be Hahn's make or break point. Hahn asked for Moncada, Kopech, & Devers for Sale initially and guess what, he ended up accepting less. Hahn has a realistic goal of what's acceptable in his mind and he probably won't drift far past that point, but there is no way in hell Hahn is holding firm at Musgrove, Martes, & Tucker unless he's the worst negotiator of all time. I'm not suggesting compromise won't eventually happen, but if his ask was Musgrove + Martes + Tucker the Sox are not going to take Martes + Tucker + depth as a package

QUOTE (soxfan2014 @ Feb 8, 2017 -> 09:29 AM) Martes, Tucker, Fisher/Laureano, Stubbs? Too light in my opinion Musgrove has mid rotation potential and a high floor due to his excellent control. He was a top 50 prospect going into last season (and still would be top 50 if eligible) Fisher/Laureano + Stubbs does not equal the value Musgrove can bring at all I'm bullish on what Musgrove can eventually become. I feel like he will become a true #3 starter on a contending team.

QUOTE (miracleon35th @ Feb 8, 2017 -> 09:22 AM) The Astros do not have a single grade A prospect and I doubt Hahn trades Q for a bunch of Bstuff. "Grade A prospects are the elite. In theory, they have a good chance of becoming stars or superstars. Theoretically, most Grade A prospects develop into stars or at least major league regulars, if injuries or other problems don’t intervene. Note that is a major "if" in some cases. Grade B prospects have a good chance to enjoy successful careers. Some will develop into stars, some will not. Most end up spending several years in the majors, at the very least in a marginal role." http://www.minorleagueball.com/2016/12/12/...spects-for-2017 Some fans are getting ridiculous when they devalue Q and over-value B rated minor leaguers. There is no equivalency, no recognition of how hard it is to get a top of rotation pitcher who is durable and is under a reasonable Contract for 4 years. Meanwhile B prospects are plentiful on any teams top twenty prospect list. That is very true I'd grade Musgrove, Martes and Tucker all as B+ prospects right now Send those three over and I think a deal gets done Take out Musgrove and I need 2 additional B prospects

QUOTE (beautox @ Feb 8, 2017 -> 08:44 AM) I feel the same way. I think Jennings gets paired with him and its a 4-2 or 5-2 deal with Martes and Tucker coming back and some combination of Reed/Perez/Laureano/Stubbs Hahn has continued to insist that the White Sox will not compromise on Quintana...meaning they still are firm on the Musgrove + Martes + Tucker asking price I'd be open to a depth package, but if no Musgrove then I'd need Franklin Perez and AJ Reed to make up for it

QUOTE (soxfan2014 @ Feb 8, 2017 -> 06:22 AM) Agreed. They would have been involved in Sale talks and made a few others significant adds. I don't see the Yankees getting involved with the justifiably high cost when they are not likely to contend in 2017. Although they could be back in contention within a session or two

QUOTE (Sleepy Harold @ Feb 7, 2017 -> 04:13 PM) Marc Topkin @TBTimes_Rays 2m Per source, #Rays are trading LHP Enny Romero to #Nationals for a lower-level starting pitching prospect Nats bullpen issues solved Looks like the Nats are out of the Robertson running now...

QUOTE (flavum @ Feb 7, 2017 -> 03:37 PM) They better not blow this. I'm thinking the Astros and Sox need each other right now. The Astros could pretty easily part with Martes + Tucker + Perez + Reed and still have solid farm depth They still would have Paulino, Whitley, Gustave as pitching depth. As well as Gurriel, Laureano, Fisher and Hernandez as position player depth. Quintana gives them 4 cheap seasons of quality production, making Martes expendable. Whitley and Paulino should be ready in a couple seasons to help. Tucker is still a few seasons away and is expendable for a piece like Quintana. They have prospect depth at the OF position with Laureano/Fisher/Hernandez and Cameron in the system. Perez is several years away from the majors and is a high upside lottery ticket. He could shoot up prospect lists, or fizzle out in the minors. Reed is completely blocked from the majors and is expendable. High Risk/High Reward final piece to a trade. Houston may not like the price, but this allows them to keep Musgrove, as well as the entire mlb roster intact. Deal makes too much sense not to happen

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Feb 7, 2017 -> 03:19 PM) That is speculation, not news. Quintana will remain on the Sox until we get an offer in the realm of the Sale/Eaton deals...likely around the deadline Using a crude prospect grade matchup of potential value: Sale netted us: Moncada ("A" grade prospect) + Kopech ("A-/B+ grade prospect) + Basabe ("B-" grade prospect) + Diaz ("C+" grade prospect) Eaton netted us: Giolito ("A-/B+" grade prospect) + Lopez ("B+" grade prospect) + Dunning ("B" grade prospect) Quintana should not be moved unless we can receive a very similar package to these deals As good as Martes (B+) and Tucker (B+) are, they alone are still light in terms of what we need to be getting back. Perez (B+/B) and Reed (B-/C+) would have to be included (or similar players) to balance out a deal That is the impasse that we are at right now.

QUOTE (pablo @ Feb 7, 2017 -> 03:04 PM) I'd much rather roll with scenario 2. Robertson is not going to get anything more than a back end top #100 prospect if he recoups all his value. Just look at the Melancon trade from last year. If Jones proves himself as a closer, he could be worth two top 100 prospects. The Pirates got Felipe Rivero and Taylor Hearn in exchange for a three month rental of Melancon. It might not seem like a huge haul, but Rivero was very solid last season and is only 25 years old Hearn is an interesting arm that could develop into a quality player. Minor League ball has Hearn ranked as Pittsburgh's #7 best prospect #7 Taylor Hearn, LHP, Grade B-: Age 22, drafted by Nationals in fifth round in 2015 from Oklahoma Baptist; acquired in July Mark Melancon trade; 2.44 ERA with 75/23 K/BB in 52 innings between rookie ball and Low-A; somewhat old for these levels but he was considered raw for his age when drafted and has made good progress in pro ball; explosive fastball with movement at 94-98 MPH, with reports of 99 at times; took step forward with hard slider as well as command; very athletic, loose arm; change-up and command need work; not rated this highly on other lists but my intuition likes this one a lot and there’s no question about his physical ability; high risk, high reward. ETA late 2019. Two arms with upside for a rental is a good return. Robertson could easily return more than Melancon did because he is under contract for the next two seasons, at potentially a reasonable sum if the Sox kick in some cash to go along with him

QUOTE (soxfan2014 @ Feb 7, 2017 -> 03:00 PM) Don't see it happening now. Maybe if they see progress in their youngsters this year though. The Phillies have a solid farm system, but I can't see them coming up with a package for Quintana that does not seriously damage their rebuilding efforts It would take Crawford + Moniak to headline, plus considerably more to round out the package. Doesn't make much sense for Philly

QUOTE (BlackSox13 @ Feb 7, 2017 -> 02:57 PM) I just like the idea of Glover being in the return for Robertson. No doubt it would take more than Glover even though I do have low expectations on Robertson's value at this point. Here's two interesting scenarios for the board. 1) Keep Robertson to hopefully build more value and trade at the deadline. Then make Jones the closer for the rest of '17 and hope he has some success and potentially traded as a closer next winter. Or 2) trade Robertson now for the best package possible. Make Jones the closer and hope he succeeds and potentially gets traded for a haul in July. Scenario #1 gives the best chance for maximum value if Robertson has a good first half and Jones becomes a solid closer in the second half. Those ifs do come with more risk and wait a bit longer for the rewards. Scenario #2 would mean taking potentially less now for Robertson but Jones' value could go up with some success as a closer in the first half and be traded for a haul in July when teams are more desperate. If the Nat's offered a nice package for Robertson I'd go ahead and take it, then move on. If Jones has success as a closer in the first half his value would jump alot. He would no longer be sold as a setup arm and instead as a Closer. Combine that with his contract and he makes for a very cheap and appealing closer at the deadline. I get what you are suggesting, but I think the reality is looking like Robertson is on the Sox until the trade deadline I'd much rather put him on the block when you have multiple contenders interested in adding bullpen help, and both he and Nate Jones could be moved for prospects If a good deal emerges now, you obviously take it. I doubt the Nationals are going to offer up enough to realistically get the Sox to move him though. We don't need the salary relief, we need prospects right now.

QUOTE (BlackSox13 @ Feb 7, 2017 -> 01:39 PM) Yeah, I think the lack of K's hurts his perceived value in trade negotiations but is also an excuse to try and cut the cost down. My counter-point to that are the facts that Q pitches half of his games in a hitter friendly band box and yet still puts up the numbers of #1 or #2 pitcher while pitching 200 innings per year. Q would be the best overall pitcher on the Astros staff and Luhnow knows it. Luhnow just needs a bit more time to give up his prospect coddling ways. Learning to let go is never easy at first,lol. https://www.nj.com/phillies/index.ssf/2017/...a_to_phill.html A Quintana to the Phillies article?!? When will this all end??? haha

QUOTE (Y2JImmy0 @ Feb 7, 2017 -> 10:26 AM) Other than Lawrie, Isn't he just as likely to hit as anyone listed before him? At least he hits for power. I'd rather play him every day than waste any more time on Avisail Garcia. I like the bets hitter at #2 which is my I put Abreu there. Let Frazier and Melky rack up the RBI's and get them out of here. reasonable for Tilsen would be .250 average , .310 on base percentage, 5 homers, 18 steals, decent defense in center below average starter production, but solid for a 4th outfielder

QUOTE (BlackSox13 @ Feb 7, 2017 -> 01:52 PM) I like the Glover idea. Pairing him with Burdi in the back end of the pen has all kinds of nasty potential. Glover is not a bad prospect, but I'd certainly aim for a higher return than him as a centerpiece If Robertson's pricetag were that low he would have been dealt already