steveno89

QUOTE (Con te Giolito @ Jan 22, 2017 -> 01:36 PM) Why is Hahn excused for settling on Sale (a superior player to Q btw) deal that was more realistic when he won't do the same for Quintana? Moncada is one of, if not the best prospect in baseball. Kopech is a big time rising prospect who is now in the top thirty Basabe is a nice third piece and Diaz is a bullpen lottery ticket I'd hardly call that settling for sale. Moncada can be a franchise player for the white sox.

QUOTE (Con te Giolito @ Jan 21, 2017 -> 08:02 PM) If he's willing to wait a month for the right deal for Jose Quintana he could've done the same to get Rafael Devers from Boston. Devers was never going to be in that deal. Boston knew nobody could match up with moncada as a headliner

QUOTE (Soha @ Jan 21, 2017 -> 02:28 PM) I believe it's true. Once this thing went in to the new year, it had been a month of back and forth with these teams, with little to nothing changing any variables. If they haven't done it now, then obviously the 2 sides aren't going to budge. I'm pretty confidant we're heading in to the season with Quintana as our #1. I'm fine with taking the risks involved, because it potentially opens up new suitors (like for example if one of the Cubs starters throws out his arm in spring training). The bummer for me is they haven't ripped this down anywhere near close enough to be in the Seth Beer sweepstakes. Frazier, Cabrera, Abreu...they're all still here and will help win many games this coming season. So it's more looking like a partial rebuild than a full rebuild, which is a little disappointing. Likely the sox have not had much interest in frazier, melky or abreu yet. Why accept a poor offer for the sake of tanking? I don't think the sox are the worst team in baseball, even if Quintana gets traded. Have you seen the padres rotation?

QUOTE (Con te Giolito @ Jan 21, 2017 -> 12:46 PM) It definitely could be posturing but I do wonder. Beane probably doesn't want to deal with him and the Sox/Rays are asking for players he wont trade. His loss. That team likely isnt going to a win division with that rotation. I know I'm not going to find many who agree, but I think Luhnow would give up Bregman for Quintana 1-for-1. That way he can move Gurriel to the 3rd and find some way to make 1b work with Marwin Gonzalez and/or AJ Reed. It actually hurts their 2017 chances more to move Musgrove, they are probably going to need him if (when) McCullers needs time off. Or if Keuchels shoulder problems just rob him completely of his abilities. White sox absolutely should not accept bregman for Quintana straight up

QUOTE (reiks12 @ Jan 21, 2017 -> 12:43 PM) I would get so much satisfaction from the Astros rotation completely blowing it next season. They are under a ton of pressure to win with all the moves they have made. They could enter the season without adding pitching, but it doesn't set them up to contend.

QUOTE (Con te Giolito @ Jan 20, 2017 -> 03:50 PM) I don't know why they turned down that offer from the Astros. If I am the Rays, there is no way I deal 5 seasons of Archer for Martes + Tucker + Paulino ++ None of those prospects are truly elite in my eyes Archer is dirt cheap for the next 5 seasons. He is not the type of player you trade for anything less than a Moncada/Swanson/Benintendi/Bregman/Turner level headliner plus alot more

QUOTE (ChiSox59 @ Jan 20, 2017 -> 02:39 PM) I am plenty calm. Just sick of reading your same BS over and over and over again. #1) This is complete and total conjecture. Reed is no longer a prospect, but if he were, he would be in their top 3. This guy was the #2 prospect behind Bregman 12 months ago and a top 20 guy in the whole game. Sure, he had a brutal cup of coffee in the majors, but his value is not nearly as far in the s***ter as you make it out to be. And again - you're making the giant leaps of assumption. "Paulino + 2 is about equal to Reed and Fischer". How can you make that determination when you have zero clue what the +2 is? They could be 19 year old rookie ballers for all we know, and since the names weren't reported, it is far safer to assume they are closer to a throw in then a top 100 prospect. #2) An extra year of control is a pretty big deal. A year ago, someone would have laughed at you had you said Q was more valuable that Archer. Archer is cheaper, controlled longer, and a far more dominating pitcher (career K/9 of 9.3 vs. 7.4). These are meaningful facts. #3) I never said Tucker, Reed, Fischer, and Martes beats the Sale deal. I said it "rivals" the Sale deal, and beats the Eaton deal. #4) LOL. Moncada is a far better prospect than Tucker, but the rest of the deal after the centerpieces, I like this made up Astros package far better. Kopech is maybe a tad better prospect that Martes, but certainly not ">>". These guys were just ranked #4 and #5 respectively on the updated RHP top 10. Its close to a wash, and while Kopech maybe has a higher upside, Martes is a safer bet and closer to the bigs. After that, the Astros deal is far better on the last 2 pieces. Your Basabe = Reed comparison made me laugh. Thanks for that. And Fischer is a legitimate OF prospect and Diaz is a complete and utter lottery ticket. Seems like there is a 1% chance of Archer getting traded I think the Rays would require a Turner / Bregman / Swanson / Benintendi / Moncada level prospect to even go beyond initial discussions

QUOTE (PolishPrince34 @ Jan 20, 2017 -> 11:36 AM) Tucker has never projected to have big time power. His swing mechanics and path will always be an issue for having any plus power. I have an issue with Tucker being the headliner and he's only played 16 games in A+. Yes he has a big ceiling, but we are talking about Christian Yelich with less speed at best. He's not a slam dunk guarantee prospect that will make it in the majors. Tucker still has questions to be answered at the higher levels. Hahn is being smart and patient eventually a team will have a need and will trade a more established position prospect whether its this off season, trade deadline, or next year. No rush other than hurts your chances of getting a Top 3 choice in this years draft. Tucker is a good prospect, but certainly not enough to headline a Q deal on his own The power potential is purely projection at this point. He will play most of this season in high A Lancaster, which is one of the best hitters parks in the minor leagues. There are not many glaring downsides to Tucker, except if he cannot play center field the power will have to develop to hold down a corner outfield spot.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Jan 20, 2017 -> 09:23 AM) If top players aren't available, it would take a really deep and quantity based package to still give the White Sox good value. I'm all for depth, but the smart move is to acquire several elite prospects who have the potential to be game changers for our franchise Suitors top prospects must be on the table or a deal is not getting done (see Eaton and Sale deals for reference)

QUOTE (ChiSox59 @ Jan 20, 2017 -> 09:03 AM) So f'in sick of this narrative. I think fans do need mentally prepare for Quintana to be on our roster opening day The stove seems to have considerably cooled as of late, and the likelihood he gets dealt before spring training is getting slimmer and slimmer, which is ok.

QUOTE (spiderman @ Jan 20, 2017 -> 08:29 AM) Is holding Quintana until the trading deadline (or next off-season) a gamble worth taking if his value is high right now? Any fear that he won't be as good on a team that is expected to bottom out over the next year? I'd hate to see the White Sox hold out for an A+ deal if an A deal could be had right now, only to see his value diminish over the next year (injury, subpar season, etc.). A gamble? Yes, but Quintana is not just a flash in the pan pitcher coming off one great season. He has been excellent for the past 4 seasons in a row. If you believe him to be as valuable as we say he is, then have the confidence to enter the season with him. I'm not suggesting that is ideal, but Q is not leaving for less than a major return. A's aren't selling low on Gray, Rays are not going to trade Archer. Q is available, but for a big pricetag. I feel they stick firmly to the "three elite prospects" asking price

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Jan 20, 2017 -> 07:48 AM) We have no idea what the real offers are. The fact is, if you are scared not trading Quintana this offseason screws everything up, his being just as valuable is probably a better bet than even if they received the exact same package for Sale all working out. I would imagine the Sox have some really nice offers, maybe one or two where they would pull the trigger, but I think they like another team's players even better and may be waiting to see if they will become involved. Ultimately what will matter is how the guys they get actually play, not where BA or Keith Law or BP or MLB.com rank them before they ever play a major league game. Well said It's not just about where in the top 100 prospects a player(s) falls, but how the Sox organization sees potential acquisitions as a fit for their future. Clearly the offers have not fit into what the Sox are looking for as of yet. We have to remember the Sox are not under pressure to compete this season, or next for that matter and can take their time during this process. The Astros are certainly in win now mode, and the Pirates are financially strapped and Quintana offers the best chance to bring in a TOR starter they can afford that they do not develop in house. Braves are sitting on the sidelines observing, along with other mystery teams perhaps All it takes is one team to make a serious offer before everyone tips their hand

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Jan 19, 2017 -> 08:51 PM) We've been hearing this same 'ol stuff out of Colorado since Mark Hampton and Darryl Kile. It's not just the Rockies rotation that is the issue. That bullpen was awful last year.

QUOTE (Hamhock @ Jan 19, 2017 -> 05:03 PM) You get a member email sent to you every month that contains the list of games for the following month (which you choose on the usual Single Game tickets page on whitesox.com) and your membership code number that you enter on Ticketmaster to get your discounted Lower Box offer. Hate to be cynical, but when you can purchase tickets day of the game on stubhub for $8.00 - $11.00 it's hard to justify paying much more

QUOTE (ChiSox59 @ Jan 19, 2017 -> 01:46 PM) Worth noting that Collins was #2 previously, but that probably has more to do with those ahead of him upping their stock, versus Collins dropping. I expect Collins to move upwards on the top 100 list. If Collins can stick at catcher, the overall tools he brings make him the best catching prospect in baseball in my opinion Hit hit tool and power tool are the best of the top catching prospects by a considerable margin A passable catcher who can hit is worth gold

QUOTE (The Gooch @ Jan 19, 2017 -> 03:06 PM) I think a 20-win season would have helped his chances a bit. He would also own the record for most starts going 6 or more innings if it wasn't for the Cowboy Joe West. I think what he has going for him outside of numbers is that he was not only the definition of a durable pitcher, but has also thrown a no-no and a perfect game (not to mention the other times he has faced the minimum) while topping out at 90-91. MB is my favorite of all time and I am hoping he gets in like Raines did, toward the end of his eligibility. His 214 wins will look like a lot more by then too. I don't think Konerko or Beuhrle have the resume to make it into the HOF Thome does and should be first ballot

QUOTE (Y2JImmy0 @ Jan 19, 2017 -> 11:16 AM) I bet he has: 10. Mets 9. Reds 8. Rockies 7. Dodgers 6. Padres 5. Brewers 4. White Sox 3. Pirates 2. Yankees 1. Braves I'd go 1) Braves 2) Yankees 3) Brewers 4) White Sox 5) Padres 6) Pirates 7) Dodgers 8) Rockies 9) Reds 10) Mets

QUOTE (IowaSoxFan @ Jan 19, 2017 -> 02:06 PM) From all I have seen, its been noted that the Rockies have very little interest in Q because they don't think that his pitching style will play well in their stadium. They had concerns about how the altitude would lessen the break of his curve ball and that he doesn't strike enough guys out to fit what works there. Seems that way. The Rockies pitching, especially bullpen, is a huge question mark going into 2017. I do not see how they contend without significant additions in a division with the Dodger and Giants

QUOTE (Y2JImmy0 @ Jan 19, 2017 -> 10:38 AM) Of course you would. Meadows, Glasnow and Newman is more than they got for Sale and Eaton. Perhaps, but not necessarily Moncada is a better prospect than Meadows, especially given Meadows injury struggles. Meadows is great when he plays, but he has missed significant time due to injury. Kopech and Glasnow are both top 25 overall prospects. Kopech is younger and not as far along in development. Newman is likely better than Basabe + Diaz at this point in time, but Basabe is also two years younger and not a bad prospect in his own right. Basabe came on very strong in the second half of the season and put up a .292 - .355 - .493 line (2nd half) Trades do not always have to be equal either, really depends on the market

QUOTE (turnin' two @ Jan 19, 2017 -> 09:57 AM) Not even sure that I made an argument. I was simply trying to point out that pitching, even mediocre pitching with no track record, commands a decent return. I made no reference to the Marlins trying to acquire Q, or that such a deal would have been the base for a deal for Q. I drew no parallel to the Marlin's farm system to the systems that could be utilized to get Q. Again, just trying to point out the high price of pitching, and that I do not think it would be a good idea to drastically lower the asking price for Q, or take a deal out of fear or panic. The more we look at it, Quintana is realistically the only TOR starter on the market right now There is zero reason to lower our asking price until it gets met. Teams won't give their best offers until they have to. The offers slowly get more sweetened to the point where serious offers get made, and then teams begin to make their "best offers". We are creeping towards that breaking point. Once the national media guys start tweeting, then we will see some activity. Zero reason to panic, trust Hahn to pull off another brilliant move

QUOTE (whitesoxfan99 @ Jan 19, 2017 -> 09:47 AM) I really wish Hoffman had gotten the 5 additional votes and made it in this year to clear some of the backlog and just to get him off the ballot so those votes could go to more deserving players. Next year you would have to think Hoffman, Guerrero, C Jones and Thome all get in

QUOTE (Y2JImmy0 @ Jan 19, 2017 -> 07:46 AM) I would imagine that the Sox will be in the 6-10 range on Law's rankings. 6-10 sounds about right at this point, a dramatic improvement from a few months ago A Quintana deal would likely put us firmly #1-3 overall

QUOTE (raBBit @ Jan 19, 2017 -> 09:42 AM) Straily and Gonzalez may be comparable pitchers but the trade isn't a benchmark to gauge Gonzalez's value at all. If Gonzalez had four times the control that he has the Sox would likely get 2-3x the return they'll likely get in return for him. Absolutely true, but he could net a decent return as a deadline rental on a contender that needs starting pitching depth for a stretch run, or in the event of injury? Is he a premium trade chip? No, but another season like 2016 could result in teams calling about him in June/July

QUOTE (bmags @ Jan 19, 2017 -> 09:36 AM) Yeah I was mostly responding to turnin two's argument. I do think this is helpful to see that if we get a nice performance out of one of our starters we could see these types of trades for Holland/MiGo/etc. We've been so focused on top of the line talent returns, it's hard to even figure out what those guys could get if flipped, and the teams that would be involved would be your Angels/Mariners/Marlins that are fringey contenders. Gonzalez quietly threw 135 pretty solid innings in 2016 and saved his career Another similar performance in 2017 and he could have value at the deadline for a team in need of starting pitching depth

QUOTE (maggsmaggs @ Jan 18, 2017 -> 05:17 PM) Not to demean your scouting eye, but this was one performance in the Arizona Fall League. That is way too small a sample size to conclude anything of significance. I am not suggesting that is an overall scouting report, but just based off of what we can see in his most recent game action He does not display much control in the video. The fastball is really good, albeit poorly located. The slider flashes 55, but is inconsistent. Control is below average Kopech is a talented project that will need 2 full minor league seasons of development at least