steveno89

QUOTE (whitesoxfan99 @ Jan 19, 2017 -> 09:47 AM) I really wish Hoffman had gotten the 5 additional votes and made it in this year to clear some of the backlog and just to get him off the ballot so those votes could go to more deserving players. Next year you would have to think Hoffman, Guerrero, C Jones and Thome all get in

QUOTE (Y2JImmy0 @ Jan 19, 2017 -> 07:46 AM) I would imagine that the Sox will be in the 6-10 range on Law's rankings. 6-10 sounds about right at this point, a dramatic improvement from a few months ago A Quintana deal would likely put us firmly #1-3 overall

QUOTE (raBBit @ Jan 19, 2017 -> 09:42 AM) Straily and Gonzalez may be comparable pitchers but the trade isn't a benchmark to gauge Gonzalez's value at all. If Gonzalez had four times the control that he has the Sox would likely get 2-3x the return they'll likely get in return for him. Absolutely true, but he could net a decent return as a deadline rental on a contender that needs starting pitching depth for a stretch run, or in the event of injury? Is he a premium trade chip? No, but another season like 2016 could result in teams calling about him in June/July

QUOTE (bmags @ Jan 19, 2017 -> 09:36 AM) Yeah I was mostly responding to turnin two's argument. I do think this is helpful to see that if we get a nice performance out of one of our starters we could see these types of trades for Holland/MiGo/etc. We've been so focused on top of the line talent returns, it's hard to even figure out what those guys could get if flipped, and the teams that would be involved would be your Angels/Mariners/Marlins that are fringey contenders. Gonzalez quietly threw 135 pretty solid innings in 2016 and saved his career Another similar performance in 2017 and he could have value at the deadline for a team in need of starting pitching depth

QUOTE (maggsmaggs @ Jan 18, 2017 -> 05:17 PM) Not to demean your scouting eye, but this was one performance in the Arizona Fall League. That is way too small a sample size to conclude anything of significance. I am not suggesting that is an overall scouting report, but just based off of what we can see in his most recent game action He does not display much control in the video. The fastball is really good, albeit poorly located. The slider flashes 55, but is inconsistent. Control is below average Kopech is a talented project that will need 2 full minor league seasons of development at least

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Jan 19, 2017 -> 09:11 AM) Plus the Rays already dumped a pitcher. They don't appear to be going into full rebuild mode. It's Q or bust for these guys. At the deadline if he isn't traded yet, chances are he is the best option. Next winter, Arrieta is a free agent, maybe Tanaka and a 33 year old Cueto. Given Q's contract, do you want to give up prospects or an extra $100 million? He still is looking good. Getting Q for 4 years offsets a good portion of the 6 years of control for a top prospect. The White Sox should be asking for the moon because eventually some team will pay it. Agreed Many will say teams would rather give up only money to acquire a player, but that is not always the case. Making a +$100 million multi-year deal on a player over the age of 30 is risky in its own right. Quintana's deal allows you to potentially sign a big time free agent as well

QUOTE (KyYlE23 @ Jan 19, 2017 -> 09:06 AM) This thread is like a bunch of people standing outside the building where the World Series of Poker is happening, and people are complaining about Phil Hellmuths moves without even knowing what is happening inside Very true http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2687747...culation/page/5 This is from bleacher report today and suggests a Pirates offer of: Meadows + Glasnow + Diaz might work for both sides It suggests the White Sox will ask for Meadows + Glasnow + Keller, but the Pirates would be unwilling to part with that much. They could offer the lower tier Diaz instead to round out the package and fill in a platoon catcher option for the Sox. I'd love a Meadows + Glasnow + Newman deal

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Jan 19, 2017 -> 09:01 AM) If you take Levine at face value, teams have recently upped their offers, so apparently not trading him previously was pretty wise. I also don't buy the Sonny Gray and Chris Archer rumors for the Astros. Frankly, Quintana is their only choice left this offseason if they want to acquire a TOR starter. A's aren't selling low on Gray and the Rays are not dealing 5 years of Archer for anything less than a monster haul.

QUOTE (turnin' two @ Jan 19, 2017 -> 08:55 AM) Yeah, but it is Dan Straily. Straily and Quintana are not comparable whatsoever in terms of trade value One is a fringy 5th starter, the other is a consistent top 20 mlb starting pitcher

QUOTE (turnin' two @ Jan 19, 2017 -> 08:39 AM) The Marlins just traded 3 of their top 15 prospects, including their number 2 for Dan Straily. There is no way Hahn should lower his demands for Quintana. Big difference between the Marlins bottom 5 farm system and the Pirates/Yankees/Astros/Braves farms in quality The Marlins #2 might not crack the top ten in those other systems

QUOTE (ChiSox59 @ Jan 18, 2017 -> 04:02 PM) Lol, I thought the same thing. Assuming he meant Stroman. In watching this I am not sure I am as high on Kopech as I was before. This is him during the AFL this past fall. He does strike out Ian Happ twice, but seems to really struggle to get his fastball and slider over the plate. Several wild pitches, and the catcher throws out two runners at second on stolen bases. Explosive fastball 70-75 grade, fringe plus slider 50-55 grade, 40 grade control in my eyes He's a really risky prospect, but the Sox tend to develop pitchers pretty well

QUOTE (soxfan2014 @ Jan 18, 2017 -> 01:35 PM) Heck, give me Rodgers, Dahl plus one more guy (even a lottery ticket) and I'll take that deal. They get to keep most of their prospect depth with a strong front package. A Rodgers + Dahl package would have the White Sox listening very closely I don't see the Rockies offering that much, but Rodgers + Dahl + lottery arm would be a great trade

QUOTE (bmags @ Jan 18, 2017 -> 01:26 PM) The only team that I'd really like to be more hot for Q and could be more of a player if we wait is the Yankees. If Q keeps being Q and the Yankees start off hot, then we will see a team with a great match for us looking to trade (moreso than now) But just as easily the Yanks could be completely out of it in June against a stacked division and re-commit to waiting on Torres/Frazier etc to bring them back. That is the only team with the prospect cache that makes less sense now. Teams like Padres, Brewers, Phillies etc are not going to be suddenly there with us in six months. Whereas the Rockies are so insane there is no need to ever wait. Our current group of Bucs, Braves, Houston are 3 great systems with a need. And frankly, I have no doubt we get a deal as good as that Samardjiza/Hammel deal. Most of us are proposing deals that are better than that, without a sweetener like Hammel. I'd love to see the Rockies make a play for Q and offer up Rodgers/Dahl, Hoffman/Pint, Murphy, Freeland, Tapia, Marquez (some combination of) Rodgers and Dahl are going to be studs

QUOTE (Con te Giolito @ Jan 18, 2017 -> 01:08 PM) If Quintana turns in a 4+ ERA it will still do serious damage to his stock no matter what his FIP or WAR winds up being. Be patient. Trust in the work that Hahn and Co. have done so far this offseason ti improve the club's future If the right deal is offered, take it. If not, then hold onto Quintana and reevaluate at the deadline. Taking a lesser offer could really damage the rebuild, we need to sell as high as possible on our final blue chip trade piece. The Sox need a return of potential franchise players for it to work. For all we know the White Sox rebuild plan could very well include other factors such as keeping Quintana for the time being. Yes, we will take a significant step back in 2017, but the team could bounce back sooner, rather than later with the right moves.

QUOTE (Chicago White Sox @ Jan 18, 2017 -> 12:28 PM) There's no guarantee that waiting results in a better offer though. In fact, many posters here have detailed why it's unlikely to expect better offer in the future than right now. That's not to say it's impossible to get a better offer by waiting, but the question quickly becomes how much is the potential upside worth relative to the potential downside of holding him into next season. I just can't put together a rational scenario where the market dynamics play out in such a way that the projected reward exceeds the incremental risks. Without knowing specific offers this obviously is just speculation, but passing on a strong offer now in hopes of a perfect offer later is a fool's bet. Quintana is too valuable to this rebuild to take that gamble. It's so hard to speculate when we really do not know what has or has not been offered for Quintana It's easy to sit back and criticize Hahn for being too picky, but he is the one in actual negotiations and has a sense of what his value really is. Sometimes it's about squeezing that additional player in a deal vs. getting exactly the headliner who you want

QUOTE (peavy44 @ Jan 18, 2017 -> 10:14 AM) You Wouldn't sign Jose Q in 4 years from now I would. Quintana's next contract is not even worth discussing at this point. 4 years is an eternity in baseball

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Jan 18, 2017 -> 10:00 AM) I also fully believe that neither Moncada or Giolitto are available without their problems at the major league level last year. If they had a Gary Sanchez type of debut, they aren't White Sox today. Had Bregman, Swanson or Turner struggled I bet he would be in play as well I feel AJ Reed is very much in play for the Sox due to mlb struggles Giolito would never be traded if he went out there and looked dominant. Same goes with Glasnow. Moncada was brought up far too soon, and never played above AA ball. He needs time in AAA to work on some things before getting called up later in the season if he is ready. Ideally I would wait until next season to call him up and prevent his service clock from starting to tick.

QUOTE (fredmanrique @ Jan 18, 2017 -> 09:40 AM) I would be fine meeting in the middle on a deal both sides could pick apart. Meadows, Keller, Newman, Diaz for Q and Jones They keep Glasnow and Bell, we dont get full value for Jones but we do get Meadows Why would we have to toss Jones into the picture to make that deal come together? Jones has significant value on his own after an excellent 2016 and the cheap contract he is signed to. I would be very upset if we essentially traded Jones for Diaz

QUOTE (Chicago White Sox @ Jan 18, 2017 -> 08:03 AM) Sure, if we move Quitana & Frazier we might have a shot at challenging the Padres, but it doesn't seem likely we'll move Todd before the season. I think you're underestimating how bad the Padres will actually be next year. I agree That Padres rotation is beyond awful. That team is going to get run train on by the MLB. I would go so far as to say our AAA rotation is significantly better than their mlb rotation.

QUOTE (Con te Giolito @ Jan 17, 2017 -> 10:22 PM) Jose Quintana is 200 very solid, occasionally brilliant, left-handed innings. His WAR slightly overrates him, though he is obviously not an overrated player around the league. He is not Chris Sale. He is not a potential hall of famer nor generational talent. He is not particularly unique or rare, there are Jose Quintana's in the league every year going back forever. Maybe not a giant pile of them, but there have always been guys pitching as well as Jose Quintana has pitched for the White Sox. This isn't meant to disparage or belittle how good Q has been, its just an honest appraisal of him. He's still a fantastic pitcher who just turned 28 and figures to keep doing what he's been doing. Jose Quintana's are the locomotives that drive a team to a division championship. The contract is not as important as people make it out to be. Its nice, it definitely helps more than it hurts, but really its only a deal breaker to the real cheap franchises like Pittsburgh and you've seen how incredibly frustrating their cowardice to step up and make a move for fear of being wrong they can be. The teams willing to give up prospects for Quintana are giving up prospects for Quintana so he can help them win their divisions this year and next year*. If he comes cheaper that's great. *this also hampers his deadline value because teams are going to want the 120 IP he'll have accumulated by the team the deadline rolls around. You're big time selling Quintana short here He might not be as sexy as a Kershaw or sale, but he is one of the very best starters in the game. Coupled with a contract that is incredibly reasonable over the next four seasons, his value is massive. The sox are not forced to trade him. Don't give in to being impatient. Hahn has asked sox fans for their patience in a rebuilding process that will take years, not months. Hahn has scored two excellent trades so far this off-season that sox fans seem to be unanimously in favor of. Lets put our trust in him to do the same with Quintana, on the timeline that he feels is best for the organization.

QUOTE (BlackSox13 @ Jan 17, 2017 -> 03:11 PM) Add Stubbs and I think that deal is pretty tempting for both sides. Sox get good depth from four players that cover every level from A+ to the MLB. Theres alot of wicked talent in that rotation. If all goes well, by then Kopech should be in AAA and Hansen in AA. Bregman obviously is not going anywhere Reed is blocked and is unlikely to crack the 25 man roster. I could see Houston being open to moving him, although they do not like the idea of selling low on him Baseball America re ranks the Houston system like this for 2017 1) Martes 2) Tucker 3) Paulino 4) Perez 5) Reed 6) Whitley 7) Hernandez 8) Gurriel 9) Fisher 10) Stubbs I'd imagine Laureano is shortly following that

QUOTE (Chicago White Sox @ Jan 17, 2017 -> 02:38 PM) I'm going to keep saying it, but give me Martes, Tucker, Reed, plus one other piece. How much fun would this rotation be to follow in 2018? 1. Rodon 2. Giolito 3. Martes 4. Lopez 5. Fulmer If that final piece is Franklin Perez? Deal

QUOTE (BlackSox13 @ Jan 17, 2017 -> 02:14 PM) You completely missed the point in my post. Sorry if I didn't continue on. Hahn knows that a deal is out there, but he really wants to see what can happen by waiting Remember the Sale deal took a year of negotiation with Boston to finally happen. Discussions on Quintana were never very serious until Sale got dealt. It takes time to really gauge what the market is Sox can compromise, but the other side will have to compromise as well

QUOTE (BlackSox13 @ Jan 17, 2017 -> 01:53 PM) I'm sure Hahn will come down to some extent. When it comes to selling something you always put it up for sale for more than you expect in return in anticipation of negotiating with a buyer(s). The fact that teams are still negotiating with Hahn despite knowing his very high price tells me something will eventually happen. Hahn is just patiently waiting to see which team makes the best offer that makes the most sense for the Sox. A deal not getting done yet does not mean the Sox need to compromise. The Pirates and Astros would absolutely love to have Quintana, but neither wants to overpay if they do not have to. Right now the Sox are porbably looking at: Pirates offer of Glasnow + Newman ++ or Astros offer of Martes + Tucker + Paulino Neither is worth moving Quintana in my opinion, both are light

QUOTE (FT35 @ Jan 17, 2017 -> 01:28 PM) Player 1: 2016 Salary: 2.5 MIL R 2B HR RBI AVE 84 | 27 | 41 | 94 | .222 Player 2: 2017 Salary: 12 MIL R 2B HR RBI AVE 89 | 21 | 40 | 98 | .225 If given the choice between the 2, employing player 1 seems like smart baseball for the rebuilding team, yes? (Player 1: Chris Carter, Player 2: Todd Frazier) True, but Carter can't play 3rd base with solid defense