steveno89

QUOTE (Quinarvy @ Jan 13, 2017 -> 01:18 PM) Initial thoughts: 1 - Moncada is gonna be fun 2 - Lopez and Giolito alone is one hell of a get for Eaton, let alone adding Dunning to it 3 - Kopech has got mad helium 4 - Collins is our best shot at getting a franchise catcher 5 - Wow, they love Zack Burdi. 6 - Alec Hansen shoutout! 7 - Carson Fulmer needs to get his groove back Agree on all points I'm a bit surprised to see them so high on Lopez, but that's amazing

QUOTE (steveno89 @ Jan 13, 2017 -> 01:15 PM) Dahl/Rodgers does not get Quintana and Jones Jones alone has solid value I know we are all dying for a tweet or new rumor But to tide us over take a look at Fansided's toip 125 2017 mlb prospects... http://calltothepen.com/?s=top+125+prospects They really like the White Sox, with Moncada, Lopez, Giolito, Kopech, Collins, Burdi, Hansen and Fulmer all in the top 125

QUOTE (Buehrlesque @ Jan 13, 2017 -> 01:13 PM) Yeah, the Rockies would have to include more for Jones. But they have the depth and interesting names to do it. Dahl/Rodgers does not get Quintana and Jones Jones alone has solid value

http://calltothepen.com/?s=top+125+prospects New Fansided articles ranking the 2017 pre season top 125 mlb prospects seems to really love the White Sox #1 Yoan Moncada #10 Reynaldo Lopez #12 Lucas Giolito #22 Michael Kopech #60 Zack Collins #76 Zack Burdi #113 Alec Hansen #115 Carson Fulmer Also noteworthy: #20 Brendan Rodgers - He slips out of the top #15 #19 Kyle Tucker - Tucker moves into the top 20 prospects. He's young for his level, but the power has not materialized as of yet. #17 Austin Meadows - Meadows slips out of the top 15, partially due to injury concerns. Still a very good prospect when healthy. #14 Tyler Glasnow - Holds steady #11 Vladimir Guerrero Jr. - He rockets up into the top 15 #8 Yadier Alvarez - Rockets up into the top 10 #6 Eloy Jimenez - Into the top 10 #47 Francis Martes - Some felt his changeup regressed in 2016 and feel he will be a future reliever #44 Ronald Acuna - rockets into the top 50 #34 Clint Frazier - Slips due to AAA callup struggles #26 Mitch Keller - Rockets into the top 30. Excellent control, will be turned loose in 2017

QUOTE (Mattchoo @ Jan 13, 2017 -> 12:24 PM) I'm no scout, and I have seen almost nothing on the guy other than 1 video... but by stats alone... if the Rockies are giving up Brendan Rodgers + one other, you take it. The other day I stated that I wanted Meadows + 2. But I'm willing to budget on this if everyone in the organization/league figures that Meadows (or Rodgers) are sure players. Meadows + 1 (Bell?) or Rogers + 1 (no idea) Pretty sure the Sox are looking for at least three players in a trade. Although if Bridich calls up Hahn and offers "Rodgers + Dahl for Quintana" I would pack Q's bag and drive him to the airport Rockies fans would be pretty furious. No mlb team could be a Dahl/Rodgers offer unless teams opened up the whole farm for the sox

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Jan 13, 2017 -> 12:19 PM) I don't have down the 'Stros and Rockies names as well yet, but for me both the Pirates and Yankees deals are light and I would probably hold Q in the case of both of those. On pure upside the Rockies proposal would be very strong David Dahl is a very good OF prospect 2015 Scouting grades for Dahl Scouting grades: Hit: 60 | Power: 55 | Run: 60 | Arm: 55 | Field: 60 | Overall: 55 Rodgers is a top 10 prospect I doubt the Rockies would offer up both Dahl and Rodgers. If they do Sox should accept.

QUOTE (steveno89 @ Jan 13, 2017 -> 12:10 PM) Hahaha nice http://sportsmockery.com/2017/01/mlb-insid...uintana-trades/ Breakdown of suggested deals Astros = Martes + Tucker + Paulino Pirates = Bell + Keller + Newman/Tucker Yankees = Mateo + Judge + Rutherford + Tate Rockies = Dahl + Rodgers Thoughts guys? I know sports mockery is usually trash, but this is from a former GM

QUOTE (Quinarvy @ Jan 13, 2017 -> 12:03 PM) We merge him with Adam Engel and get Mike Trout. http://piratesbreakdown.com/2016/03/03/pit...ext-mike-trout/ Hahaha nice

QUOTE (FT35 @ Jan 13, 2017 -> 11:46 AM) Trying to come up with a decent MLB comp for Austin Meadows if he develops the way he should...curious to see what you all think. Solve: Austin Meadows >/= Adam Eaton? Austin Meadows >/= Grady Sizemore? Any other ideas? Meadows ceiling is a .300 avg - 20 home run - .360 obp - very good CF defense player. An All star I have also seen Scott Van Slyke comps...and Van Slyke arguably put up better minor league numbers as well. http://www.baseball-reference.com/register...id=vansly001sco

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Jan 13, 2017 -> 10:58 AM) The Yankees are a team that could make up for things with quantity. I mean you could do something like Mateo, Rutherford, Judge, Andujar, Sheffield, , and there are still players like Kapperlein, Winlkleman Garcia, Billy McKinney, that could be included to end a deal that would be huge shot to the Sox program. Perhaps, but I don't see the Yankees giving up either Torres/Frazier or a huge depth package that harms their farm system. They can trade high bust risk prospects like Mateo and Judge plus an arm, but don't expect them to move a significant amount of prospects. I see that Yankees being out unless top guys are on the table

QUOTE (pablo @ Jan 13, 2017 -> 09:59 AM) You can't just eliminate a trade partner because you aren't getting exactly what you want especially considering the Yankees have enough in their farm system after Torres/Frazier to get something done. You keep them around to drive up the price for other teams or possibly work out a package that does fit what you like. Maybe you talk the Yankees into wanting Q so much that they include Frazier. This is all assuming there is mutual interest which I think there is. I disagree. The Yankees have a good farm, but not enough in my opinion if Torres and Frazier are off the table. One of those players at a minimum would have to be included otherwise their package would easily be beat

QUOTE (pablo @ Jan 13, 2017 -> 09:27 AM) It's pretty clear the Yankees are not going to deal Torres and/or Frazier. These are the two gems in their system that they will almost assuredly hang on to. If they weren't in on Sale with those two guys, they won't offer him for Quintana. So yes, if Hahn asked for one or both (unlikely) for Q, then fine but the talks shouldn't have automatically stopped there when the Yankees said no. The Yankees have genuine interest in Quintana - there is no doubt about that. Their rotation after this season is a mess and needs someone like Quintana to anchor it in 2018 and beyond. Contrary to popular opinion around here, I doubt the Yankees will go out to spend on pitching this offseason because they have set their sights on Harper, Machado, Donaldson, Kershaw etc in 2018 offseason. Therefore the only way to upgrade the rotation without spending money is via trade for Q, Archer, or Gray (if a rebound happens). A depth deal involving Mateo, Rutherford, Kaprelian/Sheffield as the headliners rivals just about any offers we could get from Pirates/Astros/Braves unless one of those teams ups their offer and doesn't gut the Yankees farm system. Hahn should work hard to keep the Yankees engaged on Q because of that. Mateo's stock is down in my opinion after a lackluster 2016 I'd much rather deal for prospects that have an upward trajectory (Kopech) I feel that Yankees prospects are perpetually overrated as well. Not saying one specific player, but in general. Sox won't be fleeced with a Mateo + Judge + pitcher offer when none of those guys pan out

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Jan 13, 2017 -> 09:11 AM) No, the White Sox should not accept that offer. "3 elite prospects" doesn't even have to be the truth. You could easily find ways the White Sox would accept less than 3 elite prospects for an elite player - for example, we got 2 elite prospects back for Chris Sale. I've said this a couple times now, when you start a negotiation you're supposed to ask for something a team will say no to, but not something so high they won't come back if there's a deal to be done. If you're the White Sox, you ask the Yankees for "Torres, Frazier, and Rutherford" to start off. Why? Because if the Yankees say yes you want to walk away astonished about what you got. In response to that ask, if there was a deal to be made, the Yankees would respond "We're not doing all 3 of those, but Torres and Rutherford we would do". The White Sox would then respond "We need more than that, add in player x" and a few rounds would go back and forth. You might darn well not call pieces 3 and 4 elite prospects, or heck even position 2 in the deal perhaps. The Yankees leaked or stated the White Sox initial ask and said how that was too high. Of course it was too high, because they never counteroffered. What does it mean that they leaked this but didn't counteroffer? The Yankees want their fans to know they talked about the player so that they believe the Yanks tried to improve the team, but they actually aren't ready to make a move for Quintana and pay a fair price for him. So no, people should stop saying the "3 elite prospects" line, because that's a negotiation line. I'm sure the White Sox started with a high ask, and New York countered with prospects like: Mateo, Judge, etc. while keeping guys like Torres/Frazier/Rutherford off the table Sounds like the Pirates are tying to sell the Glasnow/Newman headlined package, while keeping Meadows/Bell off the table. That is not going to work for the Sox. Newman is a good prospect, but his value is tied to him sticking at SS. His 30 grade power does not play well at 2B or 3B. I'd love him as a third piece in a deal, not a headliner.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Jan 13, 2017 -> 08:25 AM) Yes, everyone is taking that interpretation too literally. This is a negotiation tactic. "Elite" is a relative term Every organization evaluates prospects differently The Quintana trade negotiations clearly have gone differently than the Eaton or Sale deals, but that doesn't mean a framework can't be figured out A Pirates blog said Pittsburgh should offer Glasnow/Newman/Craig and get a deal done. I do not think the White Sox accept that offer.

QUOTE (soxfan2014 @ Jan 12, 2017 -> 05:43 PM) Fyi, I'm not advocating they trade him now just that we might be looking at the best offers now. Hopefully July brings us some surprise contenders if they end up not trading him now. If the offers were up to par then Quintana would have been traded already I'm guessing right now the offers stand at: Houston: martes, tucker, paulino Pirates: Glasnow, Newman, Diaz/Hayes/Craig Sox aren't biting

QUOTE (JRL @ Jan 12, 2017 -> 04:46 PM) This is a notion I've been hearing a throughout all the Quintana trade talks and it needs to be put to rest. It's not that it doesn't have some degree of truth to them, but is just one among many considerations. The general sentiment I'm talking about goes something like: "Quintana needs to be traded before the season, because if Sox wait his value goes down because either/some combination of a) there will be too many good pitchers who are going to be free agents next year, so teams can just sign those guys or trade for one of them at the deadline; b) if Sox are not getting the offers they like now for 4 years of Quintana, how can they expect to get better value for 3.5 years of Quintana at the deadline or 3 after next season etc...?; c) If you hold, you risk Quintana getting hurt and losing all value". It is foolish to believe that any of these are more than a consideration, or that they are the overwhelming consideration in why Quintana needs to be traded now, as opposed to the deadline because: a) who are all these pitchers that will be available at the deadline? Remember, that presumably to want to trade a pitcher at the deadline, the team would have to be non-contending. With the 2nd wildcard, a majority of the teams have been buyers or at least not sellers at the deadline over the past few seasons. The best pitchers in the 2017-18 free agent class are Arietta (not getting traded, Cubs will certainly be in playoff contention), Yu Darvish (same as Arietta) Johnny Cueto (no way, Giants are far enough from playoff race to be sellers, and good chance Cueto doesn't exercise his opt-out if he's not sure that he'll get > 4 years, 84 mil as a free agent, so Giants unlikely to treat him as a "pending free agent"), Tanaka (same exact thing as I wrote about Cueto, can be said about Tanaka and Yanks), John Lackey (see Arietta), Danny Duffy (it's feasible Royals sell, but more likely than not they don't). Then you start going down a caliber to guys like Lance Lynn, Marco Estrada, Ian Kennedy and Chris Tillman (all on contenders). So who is this big trade market for pitchers that will be seen by team's as a viable alternative to a pitcher of Quintana's quality? Hellickson, Clay Buchholz, Alex Cobb, Wei Yen Chen, Cashner. Not exactly a scary list. Sure, team's may bank on signing an Arrietta, Darvish or one of the other guys I listed as unlikely to be traded at the deadline in the offseason, so maybe the value of Quintana being under control for 4 years goes down, but 3 years of those guys will cost more than double the $ Quintana does and they will not help those teams who are looking to trade precisely because they find themselves in a playoff race for that year, which is of tremendous value alone. Yes, the 2018-2019 free agent class is fantastic, but to trade one of those guys at the 2017 deadline, a team would have to believe they are out of contention for not only 2017, but also for 2018. That narrows the list of teams even further. The Dodgers are not trading Kershaw. b) There are lots of other factors that go in to what a player will receive in a trade as opposed to just calculating value based on a number of years left. There are a number of factors that can lead to a suitable package being available at a later date even though it is not today. Not counting Sale, the 2 pitchers of similar performance level, age/point in their career, and years remaining on their contract who were traded in recent memory were Greinke and Cole Hamels. It took their teams a long while after their rebuilds began to deal those guys too. Why did they wait? One thing is, that even if Quintana is worth what the Sox are asking, you have to find a team who, not only has the quality and depth of farm system to make that trade, but also who can afford to give it up. For example, the Pirates have a deep enough farm system to afford Quintana and not have their farm system decimated, but the Pirates need to have, not only a good farm system but an elite one if they want to contend. If they Red Sox or Nationals who traded for Sale/Eaton (no coincidence that it was 2 big spending teams that made those deals) aren't turning out quite as many prospects from their farm as they once thought they'd be in 3-4 years, they can compensate for that by going out and getting that talent through free agency. Pirates, not so much. I might know a Ferrari is worth 250k, but it will still gut my resources I need for other things to buy one. In a limited market with only 29 "buyers", that situation can be the case for an overwhelming number of teams, or even all of them. I obviously don't know what team's front offices are thinking (nobody outside the front offices does), but it could very realistically be that teams do feel that 4 years of Quintana for way under market $ is worth what Sox are asking in the abstract, or something close to it, but they can't afford to pay it, so their current offers are only for what they believe 3-3.5 years of Quintana are worth. If the Sox believe that to be the case, it makes sense to hold out on trading Quintana at least until the deadline. Situations change all the time. A team like the Dodgers, for example, who have the prospects and can afford to deal them for Quintana, but have commitments of significant $ to > 5 starting pitchers, all of whom are injury prone, suddenly has a need due to injury; A team who didn't think they could afford it, has some other prospects who are developing better than they expected in 2017 and now can all of a sudden give up the prospects who it previously didn't make sense for them to; In the heat of a playoff race due to fan-base pressure (in the Ferrari analogy, this would be like finding out that a really hot girl will totally sleep with you if you had a Ferrari), or gaining more confidence than they have currently, due to their place in the standings at the deadline, that they can make a playoff/World Serie than they had at the beginning of the season, a front office can feel that it is worth it to pay the Sox asking price even though they don't right now. Worst case scenario, if this is the case, the teams that were only willing to pay what they believed 3-3.5 years of Quintana to be worth for 4 years of Quintana will still be willing to pay the same for 3-3.5 years of Quintana. c) Yes, Quintana might get injured. As any player might. You can't look at it that way, especially with a pitcher who has been particularly durable like Quintana, or a rebuilding team can never gain leverage in trade negotiations. In addition, Quintana and all Sox players are much less likely to get injured than players on any other team, as the White Sox do a fantastic job of keeping their players healthy. In fact, for what seems like forever now, the Sox have consistently kept their players healthy at a far better than the next best teams in the majors. The degree to which the Sox are the best in baseball at this, and the length of time over which this has been the case, are such that it cannot possibly be a coincidence, but has to be a trend, and they are just actually better at it than everyone else. http://www.hardballtimes.com/2015-disabled...-a-little-more/http://www.hardballtimes.com/2015-disabled...-a-little-more/ Quality analysis I feel that the white sox have been underwhelmed by what has been offered so far, and do need to be open to keeping him until the trade deadline if necessary. Everyone would prefer to get a deal done this offseason of course.

QUOTE (shipps @ Jan 12, 2017 -> 04:02 PM) Hahn has said may times since trading Sale that he wants the market to come to him. He isnt going to these other teams all thirsty to make his next trade. He will make the big trade when there is a team banging down his door with elite packages of prospect gold. Until then, we wait. Hahn is correct in his approach. Unless overwhelmed we should keep Quintana. The price is three top prospects, otherwise no deal

QUOTE (Buehrlesque @ Jan 12, 2017 -> 03:39 PM) Maybe Hahn comes down from his "three elite prospects" demand and compromises with the Yankees now as opposed to waiting until July. Proposed deals with the Pirates and Astros are already beyond compromised from the Sox standpoint. With the Yankees, there's still a chance you could get a headliner like Frazier. If you could get Frazier plus Rutherford, I honestly would be happy regardless of the caliber other prospect or two to round it off. We don't need to settle for less than at least three top prospects in exchange for Quintana. Make other clubs up their offers, we shouldn't be compromising much at all

QUOTE (IowaSoxFan @ Jan 12, 2017 -> 03:38 PM) Because they don't have time for those three young SP's to develop with their current core, Greinke isn't long for Arizona and with Pollock back their offense is good enough to compete. Greinke,Q, Corbin, Ray, Miller stabilizes their rotation and gives them a chance to contend before they lose Greinke and Goldy. I'm asking why the white sox would trade Quintana for pitching that isn't as good as he is. Dbacks farm is not good either

QUOTE (IowaSoxFan @ Jan 12, 2017 -> 02:45 PM) Dbacks have young pitching, while technically not prospects anymore, Shipley, Walker, and Bradley all are still really good young arms with upside. The Dbacks have the (now) best pitching prospect in baseball in Reyes and enough depth behind him to get a deal done. A deal of Reyes, Weaver, Perez and Kelly would rival anything we have seen speculated from the Pirates. Why would st Louis blow up it's farm when reyes is essentially mlb ready right now? The dbacks have an awful farm. Why trade starting pitching for starting pitching in the majors?

QUOTE (IowaSoxFan @ Jan 12, 2017 -> 02:40 PM) I think there are a couple others out there. The Cubs, Cardinals, and Dbacks have a need and the prospects to get a deal done. How do the cardinals or dbacks have the prospects??

QUOTE (IowaSoxFan @ Jan 12, 2017 -> 02:30 PM) If Hahn trades Q for anyone straight up, he deserves to be fired on the spot. Why would the Sox trade Q for a player that is worse? For all we know Alex Bregman turns into Gordon Beckham, Q has been a model of consistency and is team controlled long term. That would be an epic fail. Even if Bregman turns into Evan Longoria, replacing one high value player for another doesn't get this team in a position to compete. Totally agreed. No way we deal Quintana for just one player, even bregman. Far to risky in the event that player busts or gets injured. I want a package of at least three players

QUOTE (whitesoxfan99 @ Jan 12, 2017 -> 12:30 PM) Those proposed Frazier deals are insanity. You would be lucky to get 1 top 100 prospect for him. You sure as hell aren't getting 2. The Newcomb and Allard deal is insane The Holmes and Chapman less so, as Holmes had a pretty rough 2016 and Chapman's hit tool is big time in question. I see mlb pitching eating him alive with his minor league strikeout numbers. Chapman and Gallo are similar in my mind. Both guys who have huge power, but can't hit well enough to make it play at the mlb level

QUOTE (Dam8610 @ Jan 12, 2017 -> 12:19 PM) Am I the only one who hates Judge, thinks he's nearly guaranteed to bust, and thinks that the likelihood of him busting only increases if he joins the White Sox organization? Honestly, I'd prefer Andujar to him. I am not a Judge fan really. I'd prefer Rutherford as a third piece in a Yankees deal I don't see New York being willing to deal Torres + Frazier + Judge/Rutherford/Mateo/Kaprellian/Sheffield for Quintana though I see mlb pitches eating Judge's 6'7" 275 lb strike zone alive, resulting in loads of strikeouts

QUOTE (soxfan2014 @ Jan 12, 2017 -> 12:02 PM) I really love that Rockies, Pirates and Yankees one for Q. I would probably take either of those deals for Frazier. Probably no on the Abreu one. I like the Yankees, Pirates and Rockies (not in that order necessarily) Newcomb and Allard for Frazier would be a huge return that I don't see happening Holmes and Chapman is a decent package. Chapman has huge power, but contact concerns. Holmes had a down 2016.