steveno89

QUOTE (soxfan2014 @ Jan 12, 2017 -> 12:01 PM) Yeah it sucks that so many teams value their top prospects so much more now. Before it seemed like you would see so many blockbuster trades around the trade deadline and during winter meetings. It's largely due to how expensive free agency has gotten Cheap seasons of young major league talent is very valuable vs. shelling out in free agency Many will disagree, but I tend to side on the proven major league talent almost always being superior in value to prospects. Quintana is a proven a well above average mlb starting pitcher, and his 4 seasons of control warrant 3 elite prospects

QUOTE (raBBit @ Jan 12, 2017 -> 11:55 AM) I actually really doubt this. Too much going on over too long of a period. It's going to be one of the Pirates, Braves, Astros or Yankees. Other than that, Dodgers, Rangers and Rockies are the outsiders. Can't really make an argument for the other 22 teams. http://dawindycity.com/2017/01/12/chicago-...x-three-trades/ What do you guys think about these proposals? Sox Asking price for Quintana is currently "3 Elite Prospects" = Yankees: Frazier (OF), Torres (SS), and Judge (OF) Pirates: Glasnow (RHP), Meadows (OF), and Diaz © Astros: Reed (1B), Martes (RHP), and Tucker (OF) Rockies: Rodgers (SS/2B), Jeff Hoffman (RHP), and Tapia (OF) Todd Frazier Athletics: Holmes (RHP) and Chapman (3B) Braves: Sean Newcomb (LHP) and Kolby Allard (LHP) I don't see either of these deals as being realistic for one season of Frazier Abreu to the Rockies Rockies: Riley Pint (RHP) and Tom Murphy © I don't love that deal for the White Sox. Thoughts?

QUOTE (soxfan2014 @ Jan 12, 2017 -> 11:16 AM) There's no issues with Moncada having to switch positions, guys. I agree to not switch him and have him play different spots over the course of the season but there is no issue with him working in the off-season to play another position if they decide after a 2 full years or so, he can't handle it. If a team's best prospect was also a 2B or SS and they were being offered in a deal, I wouldn't say no just because we have a guy here who can already play that position. That is stupid. Sox have needs all over the place and should be looking to acquire the best prospects regardless of position in a potential Quintana trade Good players have a tendency of forcing their way into a lineup somehow While we all would like to see position player talent added, you never can have too much pitching either. Pitching can carry you to the world series with an average offense

QUOTE (Username @ Jan 12, 2017 -> 10:05 AM) Yeah I think it's a bit early to project absolutely zero power for Albies despite a healthy minor league track record. Dude made it to AAA as a 19 year old and held his own. Adam Eaton had 0 home runs as a freshman at Miami of Ohio (as a 19 year old) haha. Eh, scouting grades currently have him with a 30 future power grade, which is well below average. Not saying he can never develop more, but don't expect him to regularly top 5-10 home runs per season

QUOTE (pablo @ Jan 12, 2017 -> 10:01 AM) From an offensive standpoint, my first thought of his offensive ceiling comp is Jose Reyes. Great bat-to-ball skills, great speed, very good OBP. Reyes maxed out at 19 HR's in 2006 which is out of the question for Albies. But with the way the balls were flying last year, it's not out of the questions to suggest 10-12 hr pop from him (see Trea Turner last year). If he is 3/4 of prime Jose Reyes, I would be very happy with that. Reyes is an interesting upside comparison, although Reyes is 6' , 195 lbs vs. Albies 5'9", 160 lbs. Reyes is/was significantly stronger in terms of line drive/pop and I think will be a better offensive player. I think Albies could potentially be a better defensive player than Reyes though. The upside is certainly their with him, and Albies is a player Sox fans would absolutely love to have in our system. Not a massive issue, but Albies profiles best in the middle infield, so either Anderson or Moncada would likely have to change positions. Atlanta likely wants to keep him to pair up with Swanson up the middle

QUOTE (IowaSoxFan @ Jan 12, 2017 -> 09:41 AM) Thats just not true. Acuna and Albies may have just as much upside, but they still have a lot of growth to even be everyday players. Meadows and Bell are ML ready talents that could start on opening day this season. You have to discount the ceiling of Acuna, Albies, and especially Maitan on their distance from the majors and the still significant chance that they could bust. You can certainly build a deal around those players, but you need to get quantity back to help mitigate the risk of taking lower level players. I get that Acuna has some helium, but he has a long way to go to prove he is legit. Meadows and Bell are knocking on the mlb door right now Albies is incredibly young to make it all the way to AAA, but he did struggle during his 56 games at that level this season putting up only a .659 OPS. I feel like he will adjust and improve, and he has a really good glove, but the complete lack of power does pose some concern. I really do believe in him as a prospect, and feel he is the type of player that can help a MLB club win. I'd put Albies ceiling as an Omar Vizquel type of player, which is extremely valuable. His floor is as a glove first utility player who can handle any infield position well, pinch run, but the bat never develops beyond slap hitting.

QUOTE (IowaSoxFan @ Jan 12, 2017 -> 09:32 AM) I followed Newcomb pretty closely up to the draft, he has great stuff, but little command or control. Long term he is probably a power lefty in the pen unless he gets his mechanics inline. If he puts it all together he is a #2 or 3, but that seems less likely the more time that goes on. Newcomb has a good arm, but walks have continued to plague him. I certainly would be willing to take a shot on him though. Worst case I see him being a useful bullpen arm

QUOTE (reiks12 @ Jan 12, 2017 -> 09:27 AM) You are so dead on. I welcome Braves talk. I get to research their farm system. These Q threads have made me more knowledgeable overall. The only positive from all this teasing is researching these players and being a better baseball fan for it. We have sifted through the Astros / Yankees / Red Sox / Nationals / Braves / Pirates / Mets / Rangers / Cubs / Dodgers / Blue Jays farms in discussing trades this offseason. Am I leaving any out haha?

QUOTE (NorthSideSox72 @ Jan 12, 2017 -> 09:10 AM) Well Dan Black was never anywhere near the prospect Coats was, and Wilkins was a pure 1B which gave him a super-steep path, so your joke doesn't really hit home. But certainly Coats leaving isn't the end of the world, I agree there. I still believe Coats provides more value than Avi Garcia, but obviously the Sox feel otherwise. Tampa likes to go with role players and Coats fits that mold well, rotating through OF slots down there. If Coats turns into a mlb regular, shame on us. He seems like he could be a decent 4th outfielder, but I do not consider him to be a significant loss. I would have liked to see him back for depth purposes, but in choosing between Willy Garcia or Coats, I'd rather take a chance on the younger Garcia

QUOTE (TheTruth05 @ Jan 12, 2017 -> 06:25 AM) Is this more of a compliment for Moncada or a warning about Collins? Collins is not a guy who will bat .300 consistently, but he knows how to draw walks and his patience will allow him to post very good OBP #'s overall He also has above average power potential. If he can stick at catcher he could be really valuable

QUOTE (bmags @ Jan 12, 2017 -> 08:39 AM) Acuna is a lot of projection but quick bat and strong hands is intriguing. If we get Albies/Acuna then I would lean braves unless Pirates truly bring in Meadows or New York comes in with Torres. http://www.baseballprospectus.com/prospect...hp?reportid=397 Solid scouting report, but most of it is projection at this point. The game power has not materialized as of yet. So you're suggesting something along the lines of a: Albies + Newcomb + Acuna + Flyer deal?

QUOTE (beautox @ Jan 12, 2017 -> 06:32 AM) When all the smokes clears and if you were Rick Hahn and these were the packages presented to you what would you choose and why. Meadows/Glasnow/lotto ticket Meadows/Keller/Newman Meadows/Keller/Hayes/Hearn Of those three? Meadows/Keller/Newman is easily the best package I'd be down for a Meadows/Glasnow/Newman package

QUOTE (Chicago White Sox @ Jan 11, 2017 -> 06:49 PM) How many prospects in the game are worth a damn to you? 10? 20? Glasnow, Bell, & Newman are all legit top 50 prospects. If you're s***ting on all these guys, you are going to be incredibly dissapointed with our Quintana return. Take it easy there. Who's to say the sox are even interested in dealing with Pittsburgh beyond just having conversations? The sense is no deal is close to happening as of right now. Prospects are very worthwhile, but I think it's best to take a conservative approach that acknowledges a players ceiling, but is more realistic about what he will become. Top 100 prospects flame out all the time. Non top 100 prospects can become stars. Hahn and company have a rebuilding plan that may or may not include the aforementioned prospects. We can only speculate.

QUOTE (bmags @ Jan 11, 2017 -> 06:11 PM) I feel pretty good about all of the trades mentioned. Honestly perspective wise, we have been looking at the top prospects in the game for like 6 months now, to the point that any top 200 prospect looks like garbage. But then you think about how much you like players like Jordan Stephens or Alex Call, and those are "just guys" to us on other teams. But we are talking about likely 11 top 30 team prospects to our team for 3 guys, drafts, and fincancial flexibility. I'm pretty confident we're gonna end up well unless Quintana gets injured before we trade him. I get what you are saying, but I'm pretty sure most Sox fans are realistic about who is valuable in tiers. Guys like stephens and call exist in pretty much every organisations top thirty. They are back end of a trade filler or guys that can be dealt in smaller deals. There is a big value drop after meadows in the pirates system. Glasnow is not without big questions about his poor control. Bell is a terrible defensive player, even at first Newman has zero power, value tied to sticking at ss Keller pitched well against A ball competition. Forearm issues in the past.

QUOTE (ptatc @ Jan 11, 2017 -> 04:56 PM) I don't think there is any chance the Pirates give up 3 out of their top 5 prospects for Q. They may get 2 of those and other pieces. People were shocked when we got both Giolito and Lopez for Eaton. Sox fans were convinced Washington would only deal one of them, not both

QUOTE (ptatc @ Jan 11, 2017 -> 04:50 PM) Agreed. People can spin it all they want. Try to boost Q's value in their minds. There is no way Q is as valuable as Sale. Perhaps not more valuable, but to mid market ball clubs like Pittsburgh? His 4th season of cheap control is huge My point was that Quintana absolutely should get a return very comparable to what Sale brought us Meadows + Glasnow + Newman + a flyer fit the Sale deal: Moncada + Kopech + Basabe + Diaz mold

QUOTE (BlackSox13 @ Jan 11, 2017 -> 04:38 PM) You're concerned about the Sox ability to develop a hitter like Rutherford but trust in them to develop the likes of Newman, Craig, Tucker, Hayes, etc? If anything, a talent like Rutherford would be easier for the Sox to develop than the Pirates hitters mentioned. Meadows/Glasnow/Bell isn't happening and your second proposal headlined by Newman is worse than what the Yanks have to offer. I wouldn't say Mateo's stock dropped considering he was just 20/21 years of age during his first full season at high A ball. That's still a bit young and he probably hit well enough to begin at AA this year. He's got the arm, glove and blazing speed, none of which Newman can offer. Andujar was very young (21) in his first jump to AA last season so I think he's still below the radar as a propsect but looks to have a cannon for 3B, nice k/BB rates and there's still power projected in his bat. Fowler I think is even more under-rated as he was 21 years old at AA and put up some impressive numbers. Going by Fowler's scouting reports and last year's stats, dude reminds me alot of a young Brett Gardner. Not as good as Gardner at walks but has a stronger arm. My second proposal was Meadows + Glasnow + Newman + one of the listed players to round out the package Fowler, to me, looks like his ceiling will be a 4th outfielder at the mlb level, possibly a below average regular? He is solid defensively, but I am not sold on the bat or power at all

QUOTE (illinilaw08 @ Jan 11, 2017 -> 04:04 PM) That's a better return (based on prospect rankings) than Sale got. IF the Sox continue to demand Meadows or nothing, the deal probably ends up as Meadows, Keller, Hayes/Craig. That's a reasonable package for Q if Meadows is in the deal based on the Sale and Eaton returns. But for the love guys, the Sox aren't getting 3 top 20 prospects for Q. Quintana's 4th season of cheap control makes him worth just as much, if not more, than Sale Glasnow is out of the top 10 in my book due to unsolved control issues, Meadows moves into fringe top 5 Newman's value is tied to him sticking at SS, he is considerably less valuable at 2B Bell is a butcher defensively, unplayable in the OF and awful at 1B. Bat only player who has not shown tons of power as of yet. I don't think Meadows + Glasnow + Bell is as crazy as it sounds

QUOTE (illinilaw08 @ Jan 11, 2017 -> 04:04 PM) That's a better return (based on prospect rankings) than Sale got. IF the Sox continue to demand Meadows or nothing, the deal probably ends up as Meadows, Keller, Hayes/Craig. That's a reasonable package for Q if Meadows is in the deal based on the Sale and Eaton returns. But for the love guys, the Sox aren't getting 3 top 20 prospects for Q. I don't consider Bell to be a top 20 prospect due to well below average defense at both OF and 1B He should be an average mlb regular, but he actually ended up with a -0.5 WAR during his 45 big league game debut. He does not really have a position and is essentially a bat only player. The Pirates stuck him at 1B because they don't have anyone else to put there. I like Bell as a third piece, but he is not a true top 20 prospect. I'd rank him more around the #50-70 range

QUOTE (shipps @ Jan 11, 2017 -> 03:52 PM) That makes sense. Pirates what are you waiting for? I don't know what they are waiting for at this point Quintana's pricetag is not going to drop, and they can replace the players they lose in the next 3 seasons Take Bell out of the deal, fine Put Meadows + Sox choice of Glasnow or Keller as a centerpiece + Newman + one more player and get a deal done That would not impact the current Pirates roster at all, and land them 4 cheap seasons of Quintana in his prime If I am the Pirates I strongly consider making that move.

QUOTE (BlackSox13 @ Jan 11, 2017 -> 03:45 PM) I agree with the Yankees but I think it's more Hahn than the Yanks. IMHO, even if the Yanks take Frazier, Judge and Torres off the table they still Mateo, Rutherford, Andujar and Fowler as hitters to offer in a trade. Heck, I would take those four in a deal for Q. I agree with the saying that a team can never have enough pitching but in this case I would prefer to see the Sox focus on getting hitters if possible. The Eaton trade kinda threw off the balance a bit by getting three pitchers in return for one hitter. I would be fine if the Q trade didn't involve any pitching at all. The Sox took Collins ecause he's a catcher with power and OBP potential. As for Lewsi' injury, no biggie since he's a few years away and the Sox are rebuilding so they have plenty of time for a kid like Lewis. If the Pirates traded Bell, Glasnow, Meadows for Q, it would not only shock the baseball world but also bring about the apocalypse. I would reject the Mateo/Rutherford/Andujar/Fowler offer you proposed Mateo's stock has slipped after a relatively disappointing 2016. He is not good enough to headline a Q deal by a longshot. Rutherford is a quality third piece, but he is at least 3 full seasons away from the majors...lots of risk in the Sox system not known for developing hitters There is a big drop off in talent down to Andujar and Fowler Give me Meadows + Glasnow + Bell and The Pirates can have Quintana. If Bell is a dealbreaker then Newman + Sox pick of Diaz/Hayes/Tucker/Craig/Hearn/Holmes/Garcia/Etc

QUOTE (beautox @ Jan 11, 2017 -> 03:35 PM) thank you, he is a fine 3rd or 4th piece in a deal but not one to headline for Q. Meadows has question marks about his health if the pirates are serious about Q he is going to be in the deal, same with Keller and one of Newman or Hayes; likely Hayes, Bell is likely the sticking point because they want his production the major league roster and if Hahn takes a package of Meadows/Keller/Hayes+ for Q he leaves the buccos with depth in Glasnow and Bell remains at the major league level for them, Keller and Hayes aren't in their immediate plans. Also if Q's contract is a burden on them take back Bastardo as i suggest in the last Q thread throw in a Putnam and upgrade the last piece of the deal a bit. For people posting about how prospects are the lifeblood of that organization, yeah no s*** but if you get Q it gives you at the very least a half season reboot on McCutchen's value if they fall out by the trade deadline and 3.5 years to deal Q to restock. Lastly Marte or Polanco can slot into CF which if they do so would lessen Meadows value to the pirates and opens them up to the FA market for a rebound candidate in the future, a 'tweener' or a platoon for LF. There's a huge drop off between the caliber of a Meadows + Glasnow + Bell package to a Meadows + Keller + Hayes + ? Despite not having any power, Newman is a better prospect than Hayes by a considerable amount at this point. Keller has had some injury issues and really is only coming off one good season this year. To be motivated enough to move Quintana we need to be getting three premium players back. I do not consider Hayes to be elite. Keller or Glasnow, depending on who Sox scouts like would have to be in the deal If the Pirates cannot stomach dealing Bell, then Newman + Diaz/Hayes/Tucker/Craig would have to be included

QUOTE (NCsoxfan @ Jan 11, 2017 -> 03:24 PM) Q makes too much sense to the Yankees to not happen, IMO. The issue is that everyone is too focused on 2017, but after Tanaka/Sabathia/Pineda? are gone, the Yankees have an extremely thin roster. Cashman might want to see how 2017 plays out to see how close they are. If their young regulars start producing & they look like a 87-89 win type team, how do you not go after someone like Q? If you can look past 2017, its too perfect of a match. Sox are asking for Torres + Frazier + Mateo/Judge/Kaprellian/Sheffield/Rutherford and the Yankees are balking at that price

QUOTE (BlackSox13 @ Jan 11, 2017 -> 02:45 PM) Watch Seattle jump into the Q sweepstakes with an offer of Smith/Vogelbach/O'Neill/Lewis. Would be nice if Houston had a division rival involved in the negotiations. I'd pass on that offer We need to get at least one quality pitching prospect in return for Q If the Sox were that high on Lewis they would have taken him over Collins, plus he is now coming off injury I'd still waiting for the Meadows/Glasnow/Bell deal

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Jan 11, 2017 -> 02:15 PM) Alex Jackson and Austin Riley are also worth some attention as position players. Travis Demeritte has also put up some big time power numbers at low levels. Alex Jackson is rapidly approaching "bust" territory. Too soon to write him off, but far more was expected out of such a high draft pick. http://www.baseballprospectus.com/prospect...hp?reportid=392 This eyewitness scouting report from 08/2016 really brings his stock down quite a bit. His below average glove and well below average speed force his bat to play. 45 Future grade