steveno89

QUOTE (Y2JImmy0 @ Jan 11, 2017 -> 02:04 PM) Here's Dave Cameron's take: Dooduh: Let’s try this again…. why would Glasnow + Bell + 3rd prospect not be enough for the ChiSox to pull the trigger for Quintana? That is a strong package and there’s little reason to believe they are getting any more than that… and holding him accepts risk of poor performance impairing his value. They are not going to get Meadows by holding out any longer. This has to be just a matter of time, no..? 12:42 Dave Cameron: I think Pirates fans are a lot higher on Glasnow than non-Pirates fans. The command is terrible and the stuff isn’t that special. He’s not good enough to be the primary piece in a Quintana trade. Ding ding ding Many scouts view Glasnow's stock to have slipped a little bit. He can still develop into a TOR starter, but his control is currently not very good. He likely needs a full season in AAA to work on it. Hahn has done a great job in getting more than Sox fans hoped for in each trade Quintana is not wearing a Pirates uniform without Meadows + Glasnow + Bell/Keller/Newman package

QUOTE (ChiSoxFanMike @ Jan 11, 2017 -> 02:05 PM) I was thinking this too. It would make sense. I don't see Atlanta being a great fit for Quintana Albies is a very good prospect, but outside of that their system is pretty thin on "available" position player prospects. Maitan is 16 years old and very far away from the majors Acuna just turned 19 and is year away The system really drops off after that

QUOTE (Frank_Thomas35 @ Jan 11, 2017 -> 01:50 PM) For sure have read a ton of write ups on most of the names from the various teams reported to have interest in Q but this fan-graphs was the first one I have seen say that about Glasnow. Again I would love Glasnow and apart of a package but the headliner needs to be Bell or the now designated untouchable HOF Meadows, plus Glasnow and a guy like Newman and/or Diaz. I understand Pirate fans are attached to their top prospects, as they should be, as should Astro and Yankee fans. But the fact remains is Hahn has a plan, and certain targets. He has already stated he is in no rush, and deals will be made when they feel they are getting max value. Someone mentioned yesterday how Boston and Hahn has be talking back and forth for over a year about Sale. Right now we have a stand off and no one is budging. It will take someone to come off their ask or someone to up the ante or this thing is going to drag out until someone is desperate. And again good for Hahn for sticking to a plan and his perceived value for his players. Sox will sit back and wait unless they get exactly what they want I'm sure the White Sox started the conversation with: Meadows + Glasnow + Bell for Quintana The Pirates are trying to work a Glasnow + Newman ++ angle and I don't think it is even close to working Sox know they are in the driver's seat, Quintana's cheap contract is a big rarity on the market. Teams like the Astros and Pirates are very unlikely to be able to shell out for a massive SP free agent contract in coming offseasons. Pirates need to think about whether they want to go for it or stand pat and miss the playoffs. I don't think the Astros have enough to offer if they are not willing to include Bregman or Musgrove off of their mlb roster. Martes and Tucker are solid pieces, but I don't see either as being a can't miss prospect.

QUOTE (Con te Giolito @ Jan 11, 2017 -> 11:49 AM) Ronald Acuna, Sean Newcomb, Austin Riley and Cristian Pache. The pitcher can be messed around with too, Foltynewicz, Toussaint or Wentz could be subbed in for Newcomb and I wouldn't raise much of a fuss. I'd include Frazier to facilitate that deal, possibly trying to add a Victor Diaz-like flier on in the process. That's a lot for Atlanta to give up but they keep Allard, they keep Albies and they keep Maitan. Meanwhie the Sox invest in three guys that all could realistically be amongst the top 25 overall prospects next year. No sure bets, but more talent than anything the Pirates could offer. I would be furious if the White Soc accepted that offer

QUOTE (ChiSoxFanMike @ Jan 11, 2017 -> 10:40 AM) and nobody knows if Meadows and Bell will even be special. It's ridiculous that Pittsburgh isn't even willing to trade one of them. I feel fans are too hung up on Meadows. Of course we all would like him to be in a deal, but it can get done without him. We have needs all over the place, and our minor leagues badly need more depth at every position. Getting something along the lines of the Scout.com proposal of: Chicago White Sox recieve: RHP Tyler Glasnow, SS Kevin Newman, RHP Mitch Keller, 3B Will Craig, RHP Clay Holmes Pittsburgh Pirates recieve: LHP Jose Quintana The above would really help provide greater depth to a system that is pretty weak outside of the top ten prospects. Glasnow and Keller would add two arms with good upside, Holmes becomes a nice depth/5th starter option in the event of injury or a long reliever, Newman and Craig both are high OBP guys who know how to draw walks that are not too far from being mlb ready. 1) Moncada 2) Glasnow 3) Giolito 4) Kopech 5) Lopez 6) Newman 7) Keller 8) Collins 9) Fulmer 10) Basabe 11) Hansen 12) Burdi 13) Craig 14) Dunning 15) Adams 16) Fisher 17) Call 18) Holmes 19) Stephens 20) Tilsen Whichever order you want to put it, that is a dramatically improved farm from the beginning of December. That might have 10-11 top 100 prospects, and #10-20 are significantly better than before with actual mlb upside.

QUOTE (Mattchoo @ Jan 11, 2017 -> 09:53 AM) Great and all Meadows on the cover.... but the best major leaguer in the deal is Q. He is easily a top 30 starter in baseball. What do the stats show again? This deal should be Meadows and two others in the 50-150 prospect range, unless Sox throw in another asset for Pitt. I get liking a prospect, but you don't get a TOR pitcher for nothing but hopes and dreams. Meadows is a very good prospect, but he has been somewhat injury prone. I'd prefer the scout.com proposal over meadows plus two

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Jan 11, 2017 -> 09:33 AM) We should be getting that deal without Petricka or Bastardo being in the deal. That lacks their best pitcher, and their second best position player prospects. If we are taking salary AND kicking in another guy? Meadows, Glasnow, Newman, Bell, and Keller, plus a lottery ticket or two. Meadows, glasnow, bell, newman and keller is insane to even suggest. Pirates aren't offering that much short of trout

QUOTE (reiks12 @ Jan 11, 2017 -> 09:10 AM) Take it instantly That would be a very solid offer for Quintana

QUOTE (QuickJones81 @ Jan 11, 2017 -> 08:18 AM) FWIW, which is not much, I traded Q and Robertson for Meadows, Glasnow. Bell, and Hayes in OOTP. Meadows and Glasnow were busts. Bell and Hayes became studs, Bell moreso. Scout.com suggested this possible trade idea today What do you guys think? Chicago White Sox recieve: RHP Tyler Glasnow, SS Kevin Newman, RHP Mitch Keller, 3B Will Craig, RHP Clay Holmes Pittsburgh Pirates recieve: LHP Jose Quintana

QUOTE (ChiSoxFanMike @ Jan 10, 2017 -> 06:54 PM) Why aren't the Sox willing to take a bad contract from Pittsburgh to facilitate a deal? Like Antonio Bastardo for example. Salary relief might ultimately be a deciding factor for the Pirates on what they'd be willing to give up. Sox shouldn't have to take back a bad contract to trade Quintana

Just saw on mlbtraderumors that Micah Johnson has been designated for assignment Anyone think we should bring him back?

QUOTE (heirdog @ Jan 10, 2017 -> 06:15 PM) Yes, a bit heavy from the Pitt side but as Quinarvy said, perhaps a sweetener from white Sox needed or remove Diaz. But idea was to allow Pitt to keep their untouchables in meadows and bell, while giving Nats enough to unload their untouchable in Robles. I only posted so that Rick Hahn's "feedback guy" might see it and consider it �� Turning Robles into glasnow and Robertson would be a great move for the nationals. Not sure why the pirates would do this deal unless more was coming their way

QUOTE (heirdog @ Jan 10, 2017 -> 05:09 PM) 3 team trade: White Sox trade Quintana to pirates and Robertson to Nats Pirates trade Keller, Newman, Hayes and Diaz to white Sox and glasnow to Nats Nats trade Robles to white Sox Pittsburgh would be parting with five prospects for Quintana, I don't see that happening

QUOTE (Con te Giolito @ Jan 10, 2017 -> 04:35 PM) I'm not saying trade him now for whatever you can get. I am saying whatever is too much to give up for Q this offseasom will still be too much to give up for Q in July, and next offseason, and next July on and on. Barring a miracle Cy Young caliber season this is peak Q value. Hahn can be as upset as he wants that "his price" isn't being met, but taking his ball and going home because New York won't give him their three top prospects just exposes the Sox to a ton of unnecessary risk for what is overwhelmingly likely to be no gain. What other teams are willing to give up determines Q's price not what you want to get for him. You guys are acting like this market where there is one, maybe two, effective starters available will last forever....it wont. It probably expires sometime in May. And by July 31 Q will be one of a few guys and by next offseason he'll be one of many. That is the moment you'll be begging just to get Kevin Newman because the only teams you'll be negotiating with are the ones who rely on their prospects to survive and covet them as such. The big time clubs will all be spending money, because they would rather lose that than prospects. And if Q just loses his mojo or gets hurt? Forget about it. You'll be begging to dump his salary. So if you think holding Q past about mid-February is a good idea you are betting on him to become Clayton Kershaw. The Sox have leverage. Keep calm. The Sale deal took a YEAR of trade talks to finally happen...and the Sox got what they wanted for the most part. If Moncada had crushed the ball during his brief callup he would not be in our farm system right now. If the Sox are going to burn their last blue chip trade piece, it had better be for premium, very high upside prospects.

QUOTE (kwill @ Jan 10, 2017 -> 04:29 PM) I get the feeling if he is not traded by Soxfest we are going to camp with him. I am perfectly alright with that. It seems many don't believe in Quintana for whatever reason. I see him as a modern day Cliff Lee. He control the strike zone with great fastball location and has two good secondary pitches. I think if the Sox liked Frances Martes the deal would be done. Fact is many around the industry are not sold on him. If the Astros refuse to trade Bregman than you really don't have a front line piece Houston can give you. Sox are not stupid enough to take lesser prospects for Quintana They clearly are holding firm on the cream of the crop The Pittsburgh holdup is assuredly Meadows otherwise a trade would be done already. My guess is Pittsburgh keeps dancing around some combination of Glasnow or Keller plus Newman headlined deal. Sox are not warming up to that at all. Houston is clearly not going to deal Bregman, they likely consider their top offer of Martes, Tucker, Paulino as "topped out". White Sox are not jumping at that. Like the Sale deal, they are waiting the market out for the true marquee headliner, unless they get an outstanding depth package along the lines of: Glasnow, Bell, Newman, Diaz or Martes/Tucker/Reed/Perez

QUOTE (NCsoxfan @ Jan 10, 2017 -> 03:55 PM) I'm saying that in response to the below message, not what I think the Sox are doing: QUOTE (Con te Giolito @ Jan 10, 2017 -> 03:09 PM) * Newman may not feel like an adequate headliner now, but Quintana has so much as a bad month and you'll be begging for him at the deadline. That to me sounds like a panic, if you were to move forward and trade for him out of fear. The more I dig into it, the more I'm souring on Newman. While I'd love to have him as a utility player in our system, his ceiling is really as an average regular. Not taking anything away from what tools he offers, but I'd much rather trade for players with higher upside. His value is really tied with his ability to stick at shortstop, and I don't see him being able to beat out Anderson defensively. Anderson is a better athlete with more speed and arm strength. If Newman has to move to second base the lack of power becomes even more apparent. Tucker's ceiling is also that of an average mlb right fielder, and the power is purely projection at this point, not reality. The bat might play, but the power will be a necessity, not a luxury once he is forced to right field. The true "blue chip" prospects we are and should be targeting are guys like Glasnow, Torres, Meadows, Martes, Frazier who have considerable upside

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Jan 10, 2017 -> 03:00 PM) Only if you have your head buried in the sand. They have been trying to trade everything in sight. Who is gone already is just who had the best markets, not who they didn't like most. It takes two or more to tango in a trade You need suitors to be willing to part with the necessary pieces to get a deal done, which can take a ton of time. The Sale deal happened after a year of talks.

QUOTE (Con te Giolito @ Jan 10, 2017 -> 02:38 PM) Really? That's the worst case scenario? Worst case scenario for me is he blows his arm out in the WBC and the Sox get nothing. The risk of that is not enough reason for me to settle for a lesser package and panic deal Quintana this offseason Sox might have to show the resolve to hold him unless they get their price in order to eventually get the haul they want

QUOTE (NCsoxfan @ Jan 10, 2017 -> 02:29 PM) Gahhhh, am I glad you're not running the negotiations. This kind of mentality of fear is how you capitulate and trade him for an underwhelming package. You don't know how Q will pitch, you don't know how Newman will play (or Glasnow, or Meadows or anyone else). None of us do. But, this mentality of "it can only get worse from here" is pure BS. If you trade for the prospects now, you're taking a risk as well. The trade deadline could yield a buyer who isn't in the bidding process today (maybe a starter gets injured), for prospects who maybe we aren't even talking about today. Sox are far from panicking They hold all the leverage in negotiations. Unless they get their price, Quintana stays

QUOTE (illinilaw08 @ Jan 10, 2017 -> 02:26 PM) I think the question with Keller is whether he has the hit tool to hit 30+ doubles. He doesn't need to hit 10 homeruns if he hits line drives all over the place. http://www.baseballprospectus.com/prospect...hp?reportid=358 That is a really good in depth scouting report mid season 2016 on Newman He can flat out hit The rest of his tools are average He looks like he can be a solid, average regular overall. Our system could use a prospect like Newman. Worst case looks like he could be a good utility player, best case an above average middle infielder

QUOTE (illinilaw08 @ Jan 10, 2017 -> 02:23 PM) Here's the risk: (1) There are a finite number of teams with the headliners and depth of prospects necessary to get a deal done for Q; (2) Buyers at the deadline, generally speaking, are bolstering their team for that particular stretch run. So if the Astros or the Pirates have a bad first half, they probably wait for the next year's FA market to bolster rotations. (3) We take Q's consistency as a given. But if he falls off - even in the slightest - that could lead to a substantial reduction in Q's value. Q's value is based on his uncanny ability to be consistently very, very good. There's less of a market for that than there is for the front end starter with pure stuff. (4) Right now, if a team wants a frontline starter, they have to go to the Sox for Q or the Rays for Archer (whose price tag is astronomical). At the deadline, there's a good chance that the supply on the market increases, thereby potentially reducing the return for Q. Bottom line - the Sox need to maximize the return on Q, and I tend to think they are doing the right thing at the moment, holding out for Meadows. But there's risk leaving a package of (for example) Glasnow/Keller/Newman/Diaz on the table because you want the headliner to be Meadows. I don't think the Sox are necessarily "dead set" on a particular prospect, but rather how the entire package looks They clearly want at least three premium prospects in return, or 2 premium, 2 very good Meaning: Houston: Martes and Tucker are givens as headliners, but more along the lines of Whitley/Reed/Perez/Fisher/Laureno/Stubbs need to be included Pittsburgh: No Meadows is ok, No Bell is ok...but the cost goes up without those guys big time Glasnow + Keller + Newman + Hayes/Diaz

QUOTE (Con te Giolito @ Jan 10, 2017 -> 02:09 PM) Newman may not feel like an adequate headliner now, but Quintana has so much as a bad month and you'll be begging for him at the deadline. I'm not all that worried, Quintana has shown to be a very consistent quality starter for years now. He is not a fluke after 4+ quality years in a row

QUOTE (Thad Bosley @ Jan 10, 2017 -> 01:54 PM) I love this article from the New York Daily News, where Cashman was very candid with his thoughts about the negotiations with the Sox. In this article he states: - Sox are where the Yanks were last summer in terms of "pressing the reset button" - The Yankees set the bar high then in terms of expectations on trade returns for prized assets - Their results for the trades of Chapman and Miller ultimately led to the returns the Sox received for Sale/Eaton - He's willing to put high-end prospects on the table to get a deal done, but ironically, his trades from last summer and the Sox' current trades have established a new sticker price that the team who created this new market value in the first place is now not in a position to meet http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/baseball...ticle-1.2941444 That makes sense The Yankees don't want to fork Torres and Frazier over after just acquiring them not long ago Sox asking price is reportedly "Three elite prospects" which I read as three top #50 prospects...steep? Yes, but fair for 4 cheap years of Quintana Musgrove, Martes and Tucker deal reflects that (Musgrove was #42 prior to getting called up)

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Jan 10, 2017 -> 01:44 PM) Are pitchers in MLB going to walk a guy with no power that often? Or is the incentive going to be to go after him more because you know that odds are really high that he can't hurt you? I guess I am asking if guys with no power but high walk rates see their walk rates translate to MLB? Exactly MLB pitchers will be more aggressive with him because he is not a power threat. He still will post solid ratio's of BB/K Newman won't headline any Quintana deal. He would be a third piece