steveno89

QUOTE (bmags @ Jan 3, 2017 -> 02:33 PM) Just to be fair to the OP, his original point was using Rodon to take the "lesser" packages offered for Q. I think that's a fair question not to get lost in the "better offer than Q" posts. But also I still don't think Rodon is at a good sell point. Fully expect him gone .5 season before FA though. Right now the sox will keep him, ride out five of his prime seasons and see where that takes them

QUOTE (SoxPride18 @ Jan 3, 2017 -> 02:19 PM) How in the world does Rodon have any where close to the value that Quintana has? The Yankees would never do that BlackSox. Just no. Rodon has more potential, but Quintana is a better pitcher now and a better bet the next four seasons. Rodon is controlled for five seasons and is a guy the sox should build around

QUOTE (ChiSox59 @ Jan 3, 2017 -> 02:12 PM) Abreast always makes things better. Abreu haha, my bad

QUOTE (Buehrlesque @ Jan 3, 2017 -> 02:07 PM) Though it's taking time to come to fruition, it is still very likely that a Quintana trade will happen in the next few weeks. But here's a hypothetical "what if" scenario. IF the elite trade packages for Quintana never materialize, with the Pirates, Astros, Yankees, etc. never really offering the top prospects the Sox want, what would you think about trading Carlos Rodon for the good-but-not-great prospect packages like the ones we hear rumored on the table now and keeping Quintana to be ace going forward? At first blush, the drawbacks are apparent: Rodon is younger, has an extra year of team control and would fetch less in a trade. But, to play devil's advocate for a moment, Quintana is a bona fide top of the rotation starter who is very consistent and durable. At age 27, he projects to be great for quite a while still. Rodon has not hit his ceiling yet, and looks good so far, but he is likely to be less consistent and a higher injury risk than Quintana. If teams are willing to put together a package for Rodon than is nearly as good as the ones we are seeing rumored for Q (hypothetical), could the Sox be better off down this road? Would it make sense to take "full value" on a Rodon trade as opposed to "75 cents on the dollar" for a theoretical Quintana trade? Is five years of very good and possibly elite that much better than four years of almost-certainly elite? I think the case could be made that Quintana will be easier to extend/re-sign when the time comes than Boras-represented Rodon will be. Would that factor in for you at all? Again, this is all moot if Hahn eventually pries one of the elite packages for Quintana (which I hope happens, and soon). But if not, is this a discussion worth having? Rodon is set to really breakout in 2017, why deal him when he very much can be part of our future? His SIERA was 25th in the MLB in 2016 I believe. The return would have to be massive for it to even be considered.

QUOTE (chitownsportsfan @ Jan 3, 2017 -> 02:05 PM) One of these is not like the other. One is completely worth tanking for, the other is not. I've showed the graph time and time again: expected WAR of the first 2-3 picks is much, much greater than the rest of the 1st round. You need to suck hard to get the potential superstars. Yes, they don't always pan out, but more often than not if you draft top 3 you get at least an average MLB player eventually. I don't see the sox as the worst team in baseball, or even bottom three, unless we deal Quintana and abreu. The padres rotation is terrible. The twins appear set on a weak season as well. Abreast, Cabrera,, Anderson, Frazier is enough of a lineup from being worst in the mlb

QUOTE (southside hitman @ Jan 3, 2017 -> 01:19 PM) I think the Pirates could acquire Q without Meadows quite easily (Sox aren't turning down Glasnow/Bell/Newman/Keller) but its a game of chicken figuring out how those remaining pieces fit. I think the Pirates are trying to unload McCutchen first and that pursuit is holding up their offer. I highly doubt Pittsburgh would be willing to offer a Glasnow, bell, Newman and Keller package for Quintana. No team can clear out that much future talent for one player, even Quintana

QUOTE (bmags @ Dec 31, 2016 -> 11:35 AM) It's going to happen this offseason. Like the out of nowhere bidding war on cespedes in late January, when Q is truly close there will be a bidding war. Sox clearly are trying to prod some teams in thinking they have a chance so they can shop legitimate offers. But until it appears Q is truly close to moving, it's too early to lay down your cards. The sale deal with the Red Sox was a year in the making. Quintana more than likely will be traded, but you just have to wait for the right timing and right return.

QUOTE (ptatc @ Dec 31, 2016 -> 11:20 AM) I would disagree that a small sample size (under 100 AB) will significantly change the value of the prospect. It does change if it's closer to half a full season. The value changes if the MLB is counting on them for the upcoming year, regardless of the performance the past year. Small sample sizes won't totally right off a prospect, but they can damage their stock. AJ reeds disastrous 48 games was enough to bring his prospect stock into question. Joey Gallo has done massive damage to his stock as well. Moncada I am not worried about. He got rushed to the MLB level and has never played at AAA. Giolito had a tough second half, but still posted pretty solid AAA numbers. He could bounce back in 2017.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Dec 31, 2016 -> 11:07 AM) So I'm missing one thing here, what is the additional risk that we'd have to take on to apply pressure to them? No matter what we do the calculus isn't going to change - there are only a handful of teams left who could offer an appropriate price, and until more than 1 of them decides he's a priority the other teams can wait for our price to fall. What can the White Sox do to change this dynamic other than drop his price or wait? There really is no risk for the sox. Quintanas contract is very unique and affordable in the current market. Pretty much any team could fit him into their payroll. That will come at a premium of multiple top prospects, we just have to be patient. Keeping Quintana is not the worst idea either. I know we have position player needs, but he could be viewed as a cheap piece to help build around if we do not get the offers we would like. In an ideal situation we trade him, but I would not be willing to discount his price at all.

QUOTE (bmags @ Dec 31, 2016 -> 10:45 AM) I don't know, the reality is Glasnow + Newman is more than probably than 26 other teams could offer at this point. And of the others are teams like phillies/brewers that aren't in Qs market. So when it's just pirates vs yanks/braves/rox and two of the three are hypothetical, why do they feel pressure to offer bell/Meadows right away? I don't think the sox feel comfortable with a Glasnow + Newman headlined deal. Newman is solid defensively and has a plus hit tool, but offers no power whatsoever. I'd love him as a third piece, but not as a headliner

QUOTE (SoxPride18 @ Dec 30, 2016 -> 08:50 PM) Rasmus, Storen, and Worley (only if Q is traded) are the ones for me. Each of those guys might be interesting on one year deals

QUOTE (fredmanrique @ Dec 30, 2016 -> 03:26 PM) What if quintana goes somewhere that isnt NYY or PIT but all the discussions ultimately send other players to those clubs. Just killing time, a scenario such as this feels nice: Q to Hou: Tucker, Martes, Reed, Cameron Rodon, Robertson to NYY: Rutherford, Mateo, Andujar Abreu, Jones to PIT: Newman, Keller, Hayes Why would the pirates trade for Aubrey when they have bell for way cheaper? That would be selling low on Rodon, who is poised to break out in 2017.

QUOTE (Con te Giolito @ Dec 29, 2016 -> 11:44 PM) Its pretty clear the Sox goal is to build a pitching Death Star by 2019 and hope that Moncada, Abreu (I think he's here for life), Collins, Anderson and whoever else they can develop by that time will provide enough defense to make the pitchers job easy and just enough offense to score 3 or 4 runs with some regularity. Of course the glue of that kind of team will be the battery, and they will need to find 2, possibly 3, good (defensively at least) catchers to man it. There's really no time to waste finding those catchers. The proverbial pitching death star still has a long way to go and still needs offense to back it up.

QUOTE (striker @ Dec 30, 2016 -> 09:00 AM) Blackmon LeMahieu Arenado Abreu Story Gonzalez Desmond Wolter Gray Quintana Bettis Anderson Butler That's a pretty sweet lineup. Q could win 25 games with that offense. No team can afford to gut their minor league system to that extent. I doubt the Rockies have the stones to make a a deal happen

QUOTE (CWSpalehoseCWS @ Dec 29, 2016 -> 02:21 PM) He's not a superstar, but he was on pace for around 20 HR's last year. He'll also be just 27, entering his prime, and is making less than he made last year. There are teams that add that type of player every year at the deadline for the playoff push. I would not expect much in return for Brett Lawrie

QUOTE (Dam8610 @ Dec 29, 2016 -> 01:23 PM) Isn't a .700 OPS C considered good and a borderline starter? Because that doesn't seem like an impossible line for him, maybe something like .270/.340/.360, which doesn't seem implausible. Combine that with good D and framing, and I think he's at least worth a look. Worst case, he gets you closer to the #1 overall pick in 2018. If he puts up a .270/.340/.360 line that would be outstanding Most catchers are just asked to play solid defense and have a reasonable bat

QUOTE (NorthSideSox72 @ Dec 29, 2016 -> 12:46 PM) He really didn't. I mean, apparently the Sox thought he'd be competent enough to hide him for a year to send back to the minors. But just about everyone I spoke with about him said he wasn't nearly ready yet and his development would be stunted, which is what happened. Narvaez could turn out to be a disaster - it happens. But my personal view is that he can be a good backup C in the majors, starting in 2017. http://www.chicagonow.com/future-sox/omar-narvaez/ Narvaez is only going to be 25 years old and is cheaply controlled If he can provide a serviceable backup/platoon option for us that would be gravy Collins needs at least a full season in the minors behind the dish before we can even consider calling him up

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Dec 29, 2016 -> 12:35 PM) We will see. Adrian Nieto looked like a decent back up catcher a couple of years ago. Nobody is saying that Narvaez is the answer at catcher, but I think he could be a decent backup option. He seems to be roughly average defensively, and his bat was decent in his 34 game showing in 2016. He has done enough to be given at least a platoon shot in 2017

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Dec 29, 2016 -> 10:48 AM) People will forget Narvaez was even a White Sox in 2 years. We can only hope He deserves to get a shot in 2017 to prove himself though. He turns 25 in February and could be a solid backup option for us. He is really cheap depth, might as well keep him around

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Dec 29, 2016 -> 10:59 AM) I think fans everywhere are starving for some action. There seems to be more decent players still looking for homes at this point than any year I can remember. A lot of teams still have a lot of work left. I feel like most teams have done absolutely nothing this offseason, which is strange Outside of the Sale and Eaton big trades, plus a few free agent signings, there has not been that much activity and a ton of players still have not signed

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Dec 29, 2016 -> 10:52 AM) With Cabrera, Anderson, Frazier, and Lawrie all on this roster, you have 2 guys there who played 150-158 games in each of the last 2 years, Anderson who played 154 last year, and a guy who is regularly injured for 2 months. Basically, your setup seems very likely to me to wind up with Saladino playing 60 games when he has to sub for the injured Lawrie and 15 games elsewhere. This board is starving for a Q update

QUOTE (NorthSideSox72 @ Dec 29, 2016 -> 08:27 AM) Narvaez is going to be fine defensively. He's got an average arm paired with a quick release and he likes back picks, so he should be average to slightly above against the running game. Fairly quiet receiver, I've heard positive notes from pitchers working with him. Fairly athletic. Overall average defensively, and I think he's got enough ability to get on base to be a major league backup. Smith has a stronger arm and is more athletic, but mechanically he's still pretty rough and not a great receiver. Pitchers like working with him though, he's very good on that front. How good his receiving skills can get will dictate his future. There is some offensive potential, but the bat isn't quick and I am not sure he can make enough contact. He does draw some walks and has some raw power. But he's going to be 29 in 2017, so there really isn't a lot of projection left, like there is with Narvaez. My view is, bring in a veteran to platoon with Narvaez, who I think is more likely to be a major league-caliber catcher than Smith. Narvaez will be in the mix moving forward, but I'd like to see the White Sox also bring in a veteran to split time as well. He was solid enough in 34 games down the stretch to get a lengthy look in 2017 His career minor league OBP is .353 and he posted a .350 obp in 34 mlb games, which is encouraging. I'll take average defense at this point.

QUOTE (RockfordJim @ Dec 29, 2016 -> 08:11 AM) The Indians, having signed Encarnacion are clearly all in (as they should be) and certainly need a starting pitcher. Although trading in your division is not always attractive, the Sox know they're going to stink for two or three years, so by the time they're ready to compete, Q's contract will be nearly over. Their prospect list includes three position players I think would be most attractive in a trade-Zimmer (outfielder) Bradley (1B) and Meja a catcher. Thoughts? I can't see us trading Quintana in the division so that we have to face him all season. Cleveland is unlikely to want to clean out the rest of their farm as well.

QUOTE (BlackSox13 @ Dec 29, 2016 -> 07:57 AM) I understand the value of prospects is high but this is a hilarious take on why the cubs should not trade for Q. Odd point of view considering Lackey could retire after '17 and Arietta a FA after '17 though I'd expect the cubs to extend him. But hey, if the writer thinks Ross can help lead them to the promised land then so be it. Funny thing is that of the prospects the Sox would likely want back, Jimenez is the only one the cubs would have room for down the road. Happ is a 2B blocked by Zobrist and Baez and Candelario is blocked by Bryant. Oh well, was a fun read while I wait for my coffee to kick in. http://cubbiescrib.com/2016/12/28/chicago-...te-sox-quintana I actually think he is set on testing the free agent market, unless the Cubs end up being one of the highest bidders. I have the idea of shelling out a huge contract to a pitcher on the wrong side of 30. Paying $75 million plus to three players is not ideal.

QUOTE (RockfordJim @ Dec 28, 2016 -> 04:02 PM) That guy stole my post from yesterday! Happ + Jimenez + Candelario + would be a solid framework for a Quintana deal It would hurt their minor league depth, but greatly position the Cubs rotation moving forward and create insurance against Arrieta leaving in free agency Happ is totally blocked in the infield and Jimenez is several years away from the majors Candelario is blocked as well Cubs rotation would be totally stacked for 2017 Could be a win-win deal