steveno89

QUOTE (witesoxfan @ Dec 28, 2016 -> 02:42 PM) Neither the bullpen nor the rotation are a mess at all. There is no surefire stud, but the Angels have a set rotation with Alex Meyer acting as a bullpen piece or 6th starter. They have some decent arms in the pen, though no one that really jumps out either way. They have probably an average lineup or so, but Trout takes it to the next level. Without Trout, I'd probably say they are a 75-79 win team, barring significant injuries. You add Trout to that and they are an 83-87 win team. The players around Trout really do not have to be all that great, because Trout is all that great. 4.60 ERA for the starting rotation 3.77 for relivers 21st in the mlb overall middle of the pack offense Zero prospect depth. Things are likely going to get worse before they get better though

QUOTE (soxfan2014 @ Dec 28, 2016 -> 02:27 PM) They're definitely going to grab a Carter or Lind type player before spring training to DH and also potential flip for anything in July candidate. Eventually they will need to fill the DH spot with a player like that, agreed

QUOTE (OmarComing25 @ Dec 28, 2016 -> 02:26 PM) But that also describes Detroit, KC, Baltimore and Seattle. And Toronto and Texas are only in slightly better positions. I see each of those teams in declinem likely forcing a rebuild within the next few seasons

QUOTE (witesoxfan @ Dec 28, 2016 -> 02:25 PM) It's not a bad place to be either, and they have more resources to bring in supplemental players. Pujols is not getting any younger, and is still under contract for years Richards has not been healthy, the bullpen is a mess, the rotation is a mess, and the existing core of position players outside of Trout is not all that great

QUOTE (OmarComing25 @ Dec 28, 2016 -> 02:23 PM) Are they really that far from contending either way? Two years ago they missed the playoffs by one game. And I'm not so sure the AL is going to be as strong this year (which worries me about our chances at the #1 pick). The Rangers are going to regress hard (they played like a .500 team that got extraordinarily lucky this year and I'm not really that impressed with their current roster), and while Boston, Cleveland and Houston look like clear division favorites Texas/Seattle/Detroit/KC/Baltimore/Toronto/NYY are roughly .500ish teams and I'd put the Angels about on that level as well. Even last year their run differential was just -10, and they were hit hard by injuries. Being roughly .500, with an awful farm system is not a good place to be. See "White Sox last decade" (minus Trout) Their rotation is not playoff worthy, neither is their bullpen. Zero reinforcements coming from the farm system either. I do not see a path to contending.

QUOTE (Con te Giolito @ Dec 28, 2016 -> 02:14 PM) But OTOH you're getting 25 year old Mickey Mantle. The proposal I made going to Anaheim probably isn't enough anyways. O posted this in the other thread, but the Sox could offer (theoretically) Quintana + Moncada + Giolito + One more of our top prospects (Kopech/Lopez/Collins) For Trout 25 year old Mantle is enticing, but the risk he gets hurt and the deal blows up on you is too high.

QUOTE (bighurt574 @ Dec 28, 2016 -> 02:11 PM) Depends what they can get, but I'm not sure trading Trout is going to magically rejuvenate the franchise. We at least had 3 elite pieces to move. They're a long way from contending either way. They may be better off just holding him to give the fans something to show up for. I assume any package would require a combo of young MLB talent plus prospects. You could certainly envision a team like the Cubs putting together some interesting proposals. Cubs do not have the elite pitching prospects required Frankly, I don't know if any team has the prospects and young mlb talent to get a Trout deal completed Trout is worth (roughly) $225.00 million in surplus value (likely more), which equates to an untradeable asset. No team can possibly afford to offer up anywhere near that level of value back...except maybe the White Sox with a package of: Quintana + Moncada + Giolito + one more quality prospect (Lopez/Collins/Kopech esque) The risk Trout gets injured is just too high to offer up what it would take

QUOTE (Con te Giolito @ Dec 28, 2016 -> 01:54 PM) If they trade Quintana and everything they got from the Red Sox and Nationals for Trout they would still have a better team and org built around Trout than the Angels do now. I'd rather have the remaining White Sox "core" of Abreu, Melky, Anderson, Rodon, Migo, Robertson, Jones, Frazier etc. than the Angels' Calhoun, Richards (broken), Simmons, Cron and Shoemaker. Not to mention the Sox would still have a handful of top 100 guys and an exciting 2016 draft class whereas the Angels have done very little to improve one of the worst farm systems of all time. Give it a shot. Who knows, what if Trout gets better as he enters the prime of his prime? Our system would be back to being razor thin though. Trout would hugely improve the White Sox the next four seasons, but unloading: Quintana, Moncada, Kopech, Giolito, Lopez, Dunning, Basabe and Diaz for one player would be absurd...even for Trout We would be giving up 6 seasons of control for most of those players

QUOTE (Y2JImmy0 @ Dec 27, 2016 -> 02:30 PM) Chris Crawford is a prospect and draft writer for ESPN and Rotoworld. He has prospect guides for a very modest price (a few $$) that can be yours. They are fantastic. I can't post them but I will talk about what's in it and recommend them to all. 1. Yoan Moncada 2B: Hit 60, Power 55, Speed 70, Glove 50, Arm 60. Still the #1 prospect in baseball. Floor is an average regular with 20 SB's per year. Ceiling: MVP Candidate 2. Lucas Giolito RHP: 70FB, 70 CRV, 55CHG, 55 COMM. Crawford thinks people dropping Giolito down prospect lists are insane. Still best pitching prospect in baseball. 3. Michael Kopech RHP: 80 FB, 55SL, 50CHG, 45 COMM. Best FB in minor leagues. Ceiling: TOR Floor: Dominant Reliever 4. Reynaldo Lopez: Electric stuff. Crawford thinks he's probably a reliever but chance to start. 5. Zach Collins C. All Star if he can stay at C. A lot better defensively than he was early in college. 6. Alec Hansen RHP: If command can be fringe/average, he could be very good. 7. Dane Dunning RHP: Good body. Mid-Rotation Upside. 8. Luis Alexander Basabe CF: Offensive skill-set very volatile. All-Star Ceiling but Floor of 4th/5th OF 9. Zach Burdi: Best Relief PItching prospect in baseball 10. Carson Fulmer RHP: Bullpen. Crawford has never really been a fan. 11. Spencer Adams: Only 20. Really high floor of back-end SP. 12. Charlie Tilson: Big fan. Probably 4th OF but could have "long big league career" 13. Jordan Stephens RHP: "If 45 Changeup can get to average, he'll be a big riser". 14. Jameson Fisher: Loves hit tool. Probably DH or 1B though with 40 Throw, GL, and Speed. 15. Adam Engel CF: Legit 80 runner. Doesn't think he'll hit enough to let speed play. 16. Micker Adolfo OF 17. Jake Peter: Thinks he'll help White Sox this season 18. Jordan Guerrero LHP 19. Alex Call: "If he can stay in CF, this ranking will look foolish" 20. Luis Curbelo: Big fan of draft pick. Probably 2B with power/speed combo. The White Sox did Fulmer a disservice by aggressively pushing him to the mlb in 2016 He really needs a full season in AAA to work on his control. I think his floor could be a quality 7th inning bullpen piece or setup man I would not give up on him starting though. It's too soon to make that call.

QUOTE (Con te Giolito @ Dec 28, 2016 -> 01:48 PM) Yea if I were them I'd go for a soft reboot. Move what they can now for near-ready talent, try and clear money whenever and wherever possible. Trout will be playing his age 25 season this year so they still have a lot of prime left in him, they can afford to punt 1 year of him. The problem is their farm is awful, like worst system in the mlb awful. Their pitching is ugly, and what tradeable pieces outside of Trout do they really have?

QUOTE (Con te Giolito @ Dec 28, 2016 -> 01:44 PM) Yes. I'd do just about anything to get Mickey Mantle on the White Sox. We could totally gut the rebuild plane before it takes off and offer up a franchise crippling mega deal to the Angels for Trout...we arguably have the prospects to get it done now. The cost would be unfathomable though

QUOTE (OmarComing25 @ Dec 28, 2016 -> 01:42 PM) Absolutely. Two seasons of Trout would get us a way better package than 4 seasons of Quintana right now. The issue would be the timeline. By the time the prospects landed in return for Trout were ready, the service clock on existing pieces would already be ticking. It would not add up for us or the Angels

QUOTE (ChiSox59 @ Dec 28, 2016 -> 01:38 PM) Yah, I suppose for now they can continue to try to scrap together a competitive team around him, but at some point they have to realized that they're never going to be very good over the next 4 years with him. Blowing away his prime like they are is just sad. The Angels had 74 wins in 2016, and 2017 is not looking any better That team won't compete against the Astros, Rangers or Mariners

QUOTE (OmarComing25 @ Dec 28, 2016 -> 01:35 PM) I would. If things go very wrong in the next couple of years we could still trade Trout for a huge haul. With only two seasons of control? Give me the cheap prospect package for what the White Sox need right now

QUOTE (OmarComing25 @ Dec 28, 2016 -> 01:26 PM) I don't really see any realistic Trout trade where they end up with better value than Trout is currently providing though. I'm not saying they will trade him, but the Angels ship is sinking and land is nowhere in sight 5 more seasons of Albert Pujols will be brutal as he continues to decline

QUOTE (bmags @ Dec 28, 2016 -> 01:30 PM) Pure entertainment: Would you trade (you personally) Quintana to Angels for the rights to Mike Trout for his 2019 and 2020 seasons? That's it! Four years of Q for two years of Mike Trout. As entertaining as it would be, no. This team still has a ton of holes to fill, and we need several top prospects under long term control in exchange for him

QUOTE (southside hitman @ Dec 28, 2016 -> 08:45 AM) I bet that Yency Almonte for Kahnle trade last off-season is one Hahn wishes he had back. For sure Hahn would, but you can't win every trade

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Dec 28, 2016 -> 11:30 AM) Basabe mentioned here. http://m.mlb.com/news/article/212224800/10...uccess-in-2017/ I was hoping for Devers, but figured Boston would not want to overpay that much. I'm not sure I'd put Basabe in the top #100 prospects just yet due to his fringe average hit tool. He was young for his minor league level in 2016, and he could break out in 2017 if he continues to improve. A .780 OPS at 19 years old is reasonably impressive against older competition. If he develops into a legitimate top #100 prospect it makes the Sale deal look even better. I did say at the time Basabe is far more than just a throw in piece.

QUOTE (BlackSox13 @ Dec 28, 2016 -> 12:58 PM) Oof! That Angels farm is bad. They have a few prospects I'd consider trading Avi for. What a horrible time to be an Angels fan outside of Trout That team's future is seriously in question. Right now they are on track for a rough next 5 years

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Dec 28, 2016 -> 12:59 PM) But, even there, their budget was stretched by EE and a series of pitching injuries...two starters and Miller, for example...would have the Sox right there in 2018 and definitely 19 if the plan is executed. We already saw it with KC hitting $148 million, despite their two year trend coming into last year. That CLE market, with the second worst media rights deal, seriously hampers them. And most hitters this past decade like EE just lose it fast in their mid 30's. 2017 is the only guaranteed terrible year. Perhaps, but I'd side with being realistic that 2017 and likely 2018 are lost seasons. A 2017 rotation (assuming Q is dealt) of: 1) Rodon 2) Gonzalez 3) Shields 4) Holland 5) Covey/who knows? We may or may not get contributions from Giolito/Lopez/Burdi/Fulmer/Etc. in 2017. 2018 is still a question mark as we have loads of holes to fill (catcher, DH, OF spots, 2B, 3B, bullpen?)

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Dec 28, 2016 -> 12:56 PM) See that's the funny part. Two months ago, this front office should have been fired, and never allowed to work again. People were hoping the owner of this team would die, so that someone else could own the team. The same people who are posting gigantic lists of failed players now somehow believe that this same front office can't be questioned unless you have your own fully detailed plan in place to counter it with. The same people that brought us Rollins, Jackson, Latos et al are still the same people in charge. But now I have people telling me that I should not be allowed to question them, otherwise I might hurt somebody's feelings because they won't believe in the rebuild anymore. Literally nothing at the top has changed, but now they can't be questioned, even when fans have unrealistic expectations. Seriously I feel like I have walked into a Scientology convention. We scrutinize the front office all the time for their decision making. All signs pointed towards Hahn wanting to start the rebuild even sooner than we did. Sox fans are happy the team has finally chosen a direction, instead of trying to catch lightning in a bottle season after season. With a depleted minor league system, there was not much optimism for contending the next few seasons. Now our future appears to be on the right track, although it will take a ton more scouting, drafting, trades, free agency signings, player development, etc to get where we need to be

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Dec 28, 2016 -> 12:48 PM) Someone please answer this.... Other than the Indians, nobody in the AL Central is well-positioned at all for 2018-20 so the overall loss totals won't come as easily as expected after this season unless the first wave has/had an 80% bust rate. Minnesota would have to see incredible turnarounds from Buxton/Berrios/Sano and they still will have to dump Dozier, for example. What team in the Central is better positioned...? To me, it's a no brainer that the Sox have jumped to second with their reboot, with KC and Detroit stuck and Minnesota perpetually unwilling to spend. What other course was realistic or possible coming into this free agent market? There just aren't many plausible scenarios. Three, we have no choice but to hit this right by 2019 or Hahn/KW will be gone and the team will likely be sold if the media rights deal is a bust. Otoh, with a Trump presidency...the business climate/expectations have increased tremendously, whether I agree with him or not politically. Either way, it's positive one way or the other. The White Sox doomsday scenario of abandoning Chicago feels much less likely today than half a year ago. 80-85% of this board is ready for a new/fresh ownership voice. JR's day came and went to control the sport with Selig. Having spent the better part of eight years being critical...it's a relief to see a light at the end of the tunnel, finally. The Twins minor league system is not in awful shape moving forward, but they are not a sure bet to improve (neither are we). Kansas City appears to be exiting its window of contention, Detroit is also exiting its window. Cleveland is in great shape for the future and will be the hill we need to climb.

QUOTE (Con te Giolito @ Dec 28, 2016 -> 12:46 PM) It would have to be a 5 year gut rebuild to even have a chance of working and punting the prime of Trout's prime is criminal. They cant trade a player like him either. Their best bet is to try and find 1 or 2 starters from the minors and go hog wild the next two years in free agency. That could be a recipe for even further disaster, overpaying past their prime players. Trading Trout would be a tough pill to swallow, but it might be necessary for the good of the franchise. Not sure which team would have enough to trade for him though?

QUOTE (SoxPride18 @ Dec 28, 2016 -> 12:38 PM) They have 0 parts to move outside of Trout. Calhoun, maybe. Richards, coming off TJ. Simmons, how much are teams gonna pay for defense like they did? They don't have much of a team at all. Trout is keeping them relevant. That team is a mess right now. The Pujols contract will become a disaster as he continues to decline. No way they are able to move that unless they eat a huge chunk of money.

QUOTE (bmags @ Dec 28, 2016 -> 12:27 PM) Angels I just assumed could not pay but hell, they could make a trade work. Their farm was so reminiscent of ours 4-5 years ago where their top 5 are just their most recent draft picks. But Taylor ward is interesting. Man that Angels farm system is in bad shape. That is one team that should seriously consider a rebuild.