steveno89

QUOTE (soxfan2014 @ Dec 21, 2016 -> 02:55 PM) I think Dodgers would be a good fit for Profar as they are looking to fill the hole at second base. Profar has not been impressive to anyone since 2012 His days as being seen as a top prospect are long gone

QUOTE (Chicago White Sox @ Dec 21, 2016 -> 02:52 PM) Holy s***, there are 140+ users reading this thread. Sox fans are just waiting for the proverbial hammer to fall on Quintana We are in the fortunate position of having leverage in trade talks. The market is the perfect storm for us to land a boatload of prospects. Any offer we get we will just say "Ok, thanks..." and then immediately call other teams and say "Guess what team X is offering me, can you beat that?"

QUOTE (Dunt @ Dec 21, 2016 -> 02:36 PM) I could see something more along the lines of: Mets get - McCutchen, Jones Pirates get - Q, Conforto Sox get - Meadows, Bell, Newman, Gsellman, Dunn/Plawecki Are you referring to Justin Dunn or Kevin Plawecki as the final piece? There is a huge value difference between those two players This proposal effectively swaps McCutchen for Conforto straight up. Which I'm not sure makes sense to the Pirates. Mets effectively only give up Conforto/Gsellman/ (Dunn and Plawecki have hugely different values) for McCutchen + Jones which feels light

QUOTE (peppers312 @ Dec 21, 2016 -> 02:31 PM) is it at all possible that a sub-par White Sox team affects Quintana's value if he goes into the season as the #1? i mean what if the wheels come off because of a crappy team surrounding him and he has a bad year...? FIP is a stat that takes team defense into account when evaluating a pitcher Quintana's career FIP of 3.47 is excellent He is certainly a top 20 mlb starting pitcher, no matter how you slice it

QUOTE (ptatc @ Dec 21, 2016 -> 01:50 PM) I agree. I think his floor is a good mid-rotation starter. For all the talk of Giolito's stock being down, he actually put together a very nice season in AA/AAA for being 21 years old In 7 AAA starts he had a 2.17 ERA , 37 1/3 IP, 31 hits, 10 BB, 40 K's, 1.09 WHIP That is not shabby at all for a guy who would still be in college ball right now normally

QUOTE (Dunt @ Dec 21, 2016 -> 02:09 PM) They have nothing to offer anyways if Mazara isn't part of the package I seriously do not get the Profar love. He is only under team control for three more seasons, and has been a replacement level player so far in his mlb career. Hard pass

QUOTE (Con te Giolito @ Dec 21, 2016 -> 12:51 PM) You're telling me if Huntington offers Glasnow and Bell + that you say no because you require Meadows? I like Glasgow a lot, but ideally we would focus on targeting elite position player prospects in return for Quintana. it would depend on what the entire package looked like

QUOTE (DirtySox @ Dec 21, 2016 -> 12:35 PM) Surprised no mention of Will Craig as part of a package. Though I suppose he is tough to assign value to at this point, being a 2016 1st rounder with little pro experience. Craig should be viewed as a 1b/dh prospect as he has well below average speed and fielding ability. He has a good plate approach, draws walks and should hit for some power, but his defensive limitations hurt his value

QUOTE (Con te Giolito @ Dec 21, 2016 -> 11:43 AM) Quintana is probably as good as gone. It looked a little dicey there for about a week where there was a massive lull since the Gammons tweet about the Astros package, but now the Sox are probably more pitting teams against each other in negotiations rather than pitting them against the threat of just pulling Q off the market. Get the Pirates, Astros, Yankees and whoever else may be calling (its a new team every day now) to each put up their best offers and then roll with whichever they like the most. The odds of Q being the Sox going forward are nearing zero, IMO. I like Q a lot so this is a bittersweet realization. Exactly. Sox are just waiting for one team to offer up the big kahuna package, and Quintana is gone. A bidding war between suitors will only help us land a better package.

QUOTE (Buehrlesque @ Dec 21, 2016 -> 11:35 AM) Bregman, Meadows, Glasnow, Rodgers, Dahl, Torres, Frazier I have confidence that Hahn will negotiate his way to one of those headliners before this is over, or else we'll see Quintana on the hill for the Sox Opening Day 2017. Hahn is not going to let his final blue chip trade piece go without getting a hefty return. Eventually a team will cave and offer up a great package. Quintana's contract makes him incredibly valuable. Houston is not dealing Bregman. I think we can forget about that. Pittsburgh is unlikely to deal Meadows, but I would not totally rule it out. Glasnow could be on the table. I could see Colorado being willing to deal Rodgers and/or Dahl Yankees likely do not want to part with Torres or Frazier

QUOTE (soxfan2014 @ Dec 21, 2016 -> 11:33 AM) I forgot where I read it, but wherever I read it mentioned that Dunning could possibly be a fast riser. Dunning could be a fast riser and has the potential to be a $4 or #5 starting pitcher. He is far more than just a throw in, and could end being a very solid prospect. It's so refreshing to have more quality options in our farm system than ever before in recent memory. A Quintana trade would give us a totally stacked top 10

QUOTE (Con te Giolito @ Dec 21, 2016 -> 11:32 AM) Yea after seeing the Astros thoughts on what a fair trade for Q or Sale is I have no problems watching them lose the division to some inferior AL West team because they dont have any starters who can pitch over 150 innings with an ERA under 4. I think we all are moving on from the Astros, as they are not ready to get serious with a trade proposal New York, Pittsburgh and Rockies seem like they could all be very much in the mix...plus perhaps a few mystery teams?

QUOTE (BrianAnderson @ Dec 21, 2016 -> 11:30 AM) To me it's half measures. I totally agree they are putting themselves in a position to win again, but would be foolish to think a rotation with McCullers as your #2 (I know they probably list them differently) and Musgrove maybe your #3 by season end is going to win you a WS. That team with McHugh and Morton? Yuck. I'd put the Astros as my second favorite team - partly due because I lived down there and partly because I know watching 162 games of the Sox is going to be brutal as it was last year and the next 1.5 years. The Stros have the ability to move a ML bat and acquire Quintana while keeping their top prospects in order. I know they love Bregman, and I do too, but I'd pull the trigger on that. (from the Astros perspective). From the Sox perspective I want Bregman, but there is something to be said about getting 3-5 prospects rather than just Bregman and 1 other decent + throw ins. I know this is all moot as Bregman isn't going anywhere. But as you said.. you have McCann, Gattis splitting time behind the plate. You have Gurriel who can play LF, RF, 1B, 3B. You have Marwin Gonzalez who can play 1B, 2B, SS, 3B, etc. You have your middle of the field locked and loaded in Altuve and Correa. Springer and Reddick and Beltran... I mean there are more than enough bats to go around WITHOUT Bregman. Either way, enjoy your time down there. I couldn't stand the heat, hence why I'm back. Astros park is alright, weird watching baseball inside for me though. And good luck in Aggie land. I adopted them too when down there, but that's a different type of folk. Super into their Aggies - cultish. So many ridiculous articles out there undervaluing Quintana. http://www.foxsports.com/mlb/story/white-s...quintana-122116 This one suggest that Yankees can offer Frazier + Sheffield + a throw in and that should be enough for Quintana. Quintana is vastly more valuable than the return they got for Andrew Miller.

QUOTE (Moncada @ Dec 21, 2016 -> 11:22 AM) A few the things I've read say a deal with Pitt would be something like glasnow, diaz, ++ Diaz is not a good enough prospect to be the second piece in a Quintana deal I need top top prospects for Quintana, and the second piece would need to be premium

QUOTE (reiks12 @ Dec 21, 2016 -> 11:18 AM) They are much more reasonable than Astros fans. You would have thought Q was a garbage #5 the way they talked about him. Astros fans did not want to part with anyone for Quintana Pirates fans do seem to be more realistic in that Glasnow and/or Meadows need to be on the table for a deal to happen. Meadows appears to be off the table, which would seriously hamper the ability to work a trade. Bell is a good prospect, but his bat at 1B/DH is much less valuable that a player at a more premium defensive position.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Dec 21, 2016 -> 10:13 AM) So, I gotta come in and defend the Pirates here. This is a team that won 98 games in 2015 and deserved to. If McCutchen is still able to put up all star numbers, this is a team with a number of strengths. In the OF, you've got 3 plus bats and at least 2 plus defenders - Marte is a borderline all star every year, McCutchen has won MVP awards, Polanco is 24, has gotten better every year, and had an above average bat last year. If his power develops as he ages he'll be an all star, so there's 3 borderline all stars and a guy who has been an MVP. That OF on paper is competitive for best in baseball. Their IF isn't filled with stars like their OF is, but Kang, Harrison, Freese, and Mercer are all 1-3 WAR players in a normal year. Decent defense, decent bats, fills in a fairly deep lineup when you have those 3 big OF bats. 1b has been a weak spot for them for years now, but Josh Bell pencils into that role nicely right now. Catcher - Cervelli again, not an all star, but a good strong catcher and handles a staff well. Their pitching rotation - Gerrit Cole is a legit number 1 starter, follow that by Taillon, Glasnow, and Kuhl and you have a young, strong, cheap starting rotation to pair with him. Bullpen has been a strength for years, and they've had an excellent record of both developing pitchers and of pulling out reclamation projects. What happened to them last year? Well first of all their pitching rotation got hurt and fell apart. Cole hit the DL, Liriano was terrible, that took a rotation that was near the top of the NL in 2015 down towards the bottom last year. They had to play a lot of rookies, the rookies have talent but you can only get so far with that young of a rotation. On top of that, McCutchen fell apart - that's the difference between being in the WC race and out of it right there, you don't replace an MVP who has a terrible year. With the young pitching they have, the only reason why that team can't be competitive with the Cubs and Cardinals again is if the same things happened this year. If McCutchen's career is really finished, then they're not competitive unless they trade him, and if Cole can't stay healthy then that does what Sale being hurt would have done to us - destroys them. That's a strong roster if a few things go well. Adding in Quintana could be a really good fit - if they're worried about injuries then add in the most reliable pitcher you can find into that #2 slot and you've made that rotation into as good of a rotation on paper as there is in that division, and if you could do it without subtracting Bell or anyone from the big league rotation by using Meadows as the key piece, then the baseball logic works. That doesn't guarantee they'll beat the Cubs, they need Cole to be healthy and McCutchen to be MVP caliber again to do that, but they would be a strong roster on paper and that's a good place to be. There are other ways to make that work if they got a full return for McCutchen also, so there's a good match on paper for that franchise. Quintana is a great fit for the Pirates due to his contract. They are not going to spend $100+ million in the next two offseasons to land a big time free agent, and they have a solid team right now. Adding Quintana really would solidify the rotation and allow them to compete with the Cubs and Cardinals right away

QUOTE (SoCalSox @ Dec 21, 2016 -> 10:11 AM) I think a realistic package has to start around one of Meadows/Bell. Obviously, Medows is much more enticing but I also think he's much more unrealistic. Would everyone be happy with a package of Bell, Newman, Keller & lower level guy? That's 3 top 100 guys & a throw in like with Boston. The caliber of prospects isn't as high as the Sale deal but there's a bit more depth to this one. I value Meadows considerably higher than Bell because he can play center field (at a plus graded level). That is more valuable than a first baseman/DH.

QUOTE (bmags @ Dec 21, 2016 -> 09:51 AM) I would recommend listening to Callis on Garfein's podcast dropped last night. He wasn't that worried about fastball decline and mentioned how the Nats were jerking him up and down after each start. It's more easy for me to imagine and understand Giolito after going through the ups and downs with Rodon. It's hard to imagine how a guy with a 97 fastball and slider like he has not dominating, and left handed to boot! But to consistently harnass that power isn't always a clear line. http://www.csnchicago.com/chicago-white-so...uture-white-sox Big pitchers take time to develop command/control You can't teach pure stuff, and Giolito flashes a plus fastball, curveball and changeup...just not regularly at the same time

QUOTE (Con te Giolito @ Dec 21, 2016 -> 09:52 AM) Meadows, Hayes and an arm that the scouts like. Let's do this right now. Too light for 4 prime seasons of cheap Quintana The second piece in the deal has to be an elite prospect to go along with Glasnow or Meadows

QUOTE (ChiSoxFanMike @ Dec 21, 2016 -> 09:52 AM) He has very little power and you can't possibly expect his OBP numbers to stay at that level as he ascends through the minors. He does draw walks at a very impressive rate and has a tick above average speed, as well as is an average fielder. That is a great guy to have as a leadoff or #2 hitter.

QUOTE (DirtySox @ Dec 21, 2016 -> 09:46 AM) Newman you mean? I edited it, yeah Newman really broke out this season. His patience at the plate is excellent. He would profile really well as a starting second baseman and #2 hitter. The only real knock is that he has ZERO power. A minor league career ISO of .100 is far below average power wise

QUOTE (South Sider @ Dec 21, 2016 -> 09:38 AM) I wanted to start a discussion on Giolito to gather some opinions from our more savvy posters regarding his future in the MLB. Basically, when the trade happened people were saying Shelby Miller 2.0 and that the Sox fleeced the Nationals. I think a lot of people here had a more clear view of the trade, yes the Sox got a nice return but the Nationals got a good player and I highly doubt he will be as bad as Shelby Miller has been for Arizona. However, I was reading some tweets and articles talking about Giolito and that a lot of executives at the winter meetings had him lower on their prospect list then the national outlets. How low? One may never know, but it is interesting topic for discussion because some felt the Sox fleeced the Nationals, while others are down on Giolito. If Giolito isn't as good as we hope, then it severely hurts the value of this deal. Lopez projects as a bullpen piece, which is fine, and Dunning could be a starter but he's kind of far away yet. Giolito is the headliner and there's talk that the Nationals screwed up delivery, so he seems like an ideal candidate for the Sox to fix. I guess I just want to see what some of you guys out there feel like his ceiling really is. Giolito is a work in progress, but he has the raw stuff and talent that you cannot teach. He is not a finished product right now, and still needs significant time in AAA to work on his mechanics and command. While I'm not sure he will become an ace, his floor is very high as well. He is a little more hittable than we would like to see, but I have high hopes for him.

QUOTE (ChiSox59 @ Dec 21, 2016 -> 09:41 AM) Yah, who wants a dude that got on base 39% of the time last year? If Newman has even fringe average power potential instead of no power he would easily be a top #15 prospect right now. His hit tool is legit plus.

QUOTE (flavum @ Dec 21, 2016 -> 09:27 AM) I agree, but honestly, I think the Pirates aren't moving Meadows under any circumstance. I'm fine with that. More teams entering the bidding will only drive up the price for Quintana. I'm confident that we will get a huge haul

QUOTE (CyAcosta41 @ Dec 21, 2016 -> 09:18 AM) Right here, man! Like most of us -- watching, with great interest. It ain't over 'til it's over, but, yeah, for the longest time I've been thinking the Pirates would be a serious contender for either Sale or Q (most likely Q) since it became obvious the Sox were going to auction off their prime assets. Baseball is just like most businesses, heck, like most relationships. "Need" trump "like." Every single team with any reasonable chance of contending would "like" a Sale or a Q. Not only for their talent, but also for the contract attached to the talent. But a team like the Pirates truly "need" this kind of asset because they can never win a FA bidding war against the big boys. Push come to shove, I always suspected the Pirates would likely step-up and, in the end, would be willing to pay MORE out of the warchest from which they could actually compete -- young talent. Take a team that needs to pay more like the Pirates, factor in that their available currency (young talent) is what they have in significant quantities and is exactly what the Sox need out of this "auction," and then add that the centerpiece of any likely trade -- Meadows -- is exactly the kind of everday stud OF'er the Sox need ... well, they always seemed to be a super-likely trade partner to me. Cy Acosta, where are ya buddy? There is finally a legit rumor involving the Pirates. biggrin.gif How about Meadows (#9), Newman (#42), Keller (#72) and Diaz? Gives the Sox a return of two top 50's, a top 100 and a catcher that profiles to at least be a backup MLB C with good defensive skills and strong arm. Meadows + Newman + Keller + Diaz would be a nice haul for Quintana